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Post by mondaymorningchamp on Sept 11, 2009 19:34:31 GMT -5
I don't think that Austin from Wrestlemania X-7 to Survivor Series 2001 is an example of f***ed up continuity.
Him being vicious and brutal and slowly devolving into a sad figure sucking up to McMahon isn't a change from serious to comedy. It's him losing his mind. He wants to be number one. He wants McMahon to keep him as #1. But then he snaps because despite his past, despite his efforts, despite his holding the belt, "the WWF is grooming Kurt Angle to be the next champion." That's why he turned on WWF. That's why he'd been trying to stay close to McMahon. It wasn't because they said "Oh we want to make him funny."
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DavidArquette
Don Corleone
The actor formerly known as avanteproject
Posts: 1,542
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Post by DavidArquette on Sept 11, 2009 19:39:29 GMT -5
Rikishi's turn as someone else said, there was no logic to it. Austin's and Angle's Invasion turns. Again not much logic to those either.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Sept 11, 2009 19:55:39 GMT -5
ANY Sting heel turn. Nobody ever buys it.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Sept 11, 2009 19:58:20 GMT -5
Sting and Goldberg during Russo's days in WCW. Both were completely illogical. Those were supposed to be the two guys the fans knew they could count on to be good guys no matter what.
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JRX
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,630
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Post by JRX on Sept 11, 2009 20:06:35 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan. I can remember seeing kids at school crying when he was the third man of the nWo.
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Post by chunkylover53 on Sept 11, 2009 20:42:19 GMT -5
I don't think that Austin from Wrestlemania X-7 to Survivor Series 2001 is an example of f***ed up continuity. Him being vicious and brutal and slowly devolving into a sad figure sucking up to McMahon isn't a change from serious to comedy. It's him losing his mind. He wants to be number one. He wants McMahon to keep him as #1. But then he snaps because despite his past, despite his efforts, despite his holding the belt, "the WWF is grooming Kurt Angle to be the next champion." That's why he turned on WWF. That's why he'd been trying to stay close to McMahon. It wasn't because they said "Oh we want to make him funny." Still, he seemed too lovable to be a heel. He was getting cheered during that time. I don't mind a comical heel, even if he's in the main event scene, but the number one rule of being a successful heel is to be hated. Heels who come off as liked as not doing their job, conversely faces who are being hated.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Sept 11, 2009 21:15:45 GMT -5
Sting and Goldberg during Russo's days in WCW. Both were completely illogical. Those were supposed to be the two guys the fans knew they could count on to be good guys no matter what. To be fair, Sting turned heel at Fall Brawl 1999, two days after Bischoff was removed as president and a month before Russo joined. Russo slowly turned Sting from heel to tweener and then back to face.
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Sept 11, 2009 21:42:56 GMT -5
According to his autobiography, Austin wanted to turn heel to refresh his character, but he admitted that it didn't work, as did Jim Ross, who said that it was like trying to get John Wayne to be cast as a Nazi soldier.
A lot of today's fans seem to overlook that Comedian!Austin was one of the highlights of the controversial Invasion arc, getting to work along with Angle and McMahon.
Comedian!Austin (WHAT?) did leave an impact (WHAT?) that is still felt today (WHAT?), even in TNA. (WHAT?)
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Post by cuneo77 on Sept 11, 2009 22:27:09 GMT -5
bret hart in wcw,everytime. it was dumb push him as a face
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Post by mondaymorningchamp on Sept 11, 2009 23:47:09 GMT -5
Austin's "WHAT" was not supposed to be funny. It was meant to be intimidating -- a big bad guy refusing to let you talk.
He started using it for humor when he became a babyface.
It was bad to turn him because the fans were still in love with him. But he was a damn good heel in 2001 and the whole run was brilliant.
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Post by gamblore on Sept 12, 2009 0:57:27 GMT -5
Every time the Giant joined the nWo. It never made any sense. Same with avage.
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dsriggs
Samurai Cop
PHOTOBUCKET!!!!!!!!
Posts: 2,223
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Post by dsriggs on Sept 12, 2009 4:28:04 GMT -5
Hassan. The guy's whole gimmick is that he's tired of discrimination and sterotypes. Dammit, an angle like that could have been huge! Hassan was always a heel so you can't say he turned. That angle would have been impossible. If he acted like a face and helped faces then it's just as likely he'd have been cheered as booed. So then he has nothing to complain about. I can't find it on Youtube, but I'm SURE the first Hassan vignette or two was just him saying how he wanted to prove that Middle Easterners were good people who didn't deserve the bigotry they received. Then they stuck Daivari on him and turned him heel. Oh well...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2009 8:06:48 GMT -5
Every one of Matt Hardy's turns against Jeff. I guess it wasn't the turn that was wrong- because "jealous of the younger brother's success- is a justified heel turn... it's just they've all ended with Matt basically shrugging his shoulders to signify an apology, and Jeff accepting with no qualms. It's like a roller coaster that goes up and up and up... then levels off and you get off, and have to walk down a flight of stairs to exit. They could have just as easily covered their tracks by saying, "Matt may not like his brother, but doesn't want anybody else beating him up." Anybody who has a sibling knows what it's like. That's YOUR punching bag, not theirs! But, no, they blow it all off. The company gets their buyrate, they get their money, and they just blow the whole feud off. I was going to say that was a face turn gone wrong, but there was no real plan aside from a couple of matches against the two, have them take a break, then bring them back together. That's why the most recent turn by Matt was just a bad heel turn.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Sept 12, 2009 10:01:21 GMT -5
I don't know if this counts, but when Buff Bagwell came back from his serious neck injury, the crowd was behind him when he stood up to Big Poppa Pump after he came out and attacked Rick Steiner. Then Buff joins in the attack on Rick, rejoining the nWo and potentially killing any babyface momentum against the nWo.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Sept 12, 2009 13:27:02 GMT -5
Yeah, and the crowd wasn't exactly booing Austin out of the building either. Poor timing to have it done in his backyard against a guy that the fans were slowly starting to turn against. I think what really hurt Austin's heel turn wasn't the turn itself(though you brought up a good point), but what they did with it thereafter. In the beginning he was cold and calculated, but after his partner Triple H was injured, he became a comedian and didn't seem like a heel at all. I mean, singing "kombayah" and giving Vince Mcmahon, his former rival, hugs? It was funny, don't get me wrong, but it didn't make sense to do what he did. ... That's part of why the Invasion Angle and Austin's heel run were such clusterf***s, cause they couldn't keep continuity straight. See I disagree. I think they knew the only way they could get the crowd (who loved Austin as a badass who beat up anything that moved) to boo him was to make him show weakness, crack stupid jokes, act cowardly (ie : when Kurt abducted him), and go around hugging people and singing.
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repomark
Unicron
For Mash Get Smash
Posts: 3,054
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Post by repomark on Sept 12, 2009 17:42:56 GMT -5
Austin's initial heel turn at Wrestlemania 17 is the first that lept to mind. His additional heel turn in 2001 at Invasion also was nonsense in my view.
Tatanka's heel turn in 1994 I thought was an odd decision as well - particularly as they never did anything with it. Luger turning heel then would have made far more sense.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Sept 12, 2009 21:43:37 GMT -5
I don't know if this counts, but when Buff Bagwell came back from his serious neck injury, the crowd was behind him when he stood up to Big Poppa Pump after he came out and attacked Rick Steiner. Then Buff joins in the attack on Rick, rejoining the nWo and potentially killing any babyface momentum against the nWo. This. They did several fake turns with Buff. A very stupid idea seeing that fans WANTED desperatly to cheer the guy
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Sept 12, 2009 22:02:13 GMT -5
I don't know if this counts, but when Buff Bagwell came back from his serious neck injury, the crowd was behind him when he stood up to Big Poppa Pump after he came out and attacked Rick Steiner. Then Buff joins in the attack on Rick, rejoining the nWo and potentially killing any babyface momentum against the nWo. This. They did several fake turns with Buff. A very stupid idea seeing that fans WANTED desperatly to cheer the guy Oh yes a thousand times yes. When this happened I had not yet become an internet mark so I was genuinely concerned about Buff and felt he was very brave for comming back. When he turned it got ALOT of heat but they did nothing with that heat so really it was a waste.
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Sept 12, 2009 22:27:26 GMT -5
Kurt Angle joining the Alliance in 2001. He was CRAZY over and it was so soon after 9/11/01, which just got the crowd behind him even more. The heel turn was a stupid, stupid idea. This. It was one of the stupidest moves WWE ever pulled. Angle was so insanely over, and positioned to be THE superstar of WWE and they turned him heel for absolutely no reason whatsoever. It was asinine I comletely agree on this one. they finally got Angle up to that badass huge face level and they they just go ahead and drop him back down in favor of Austin who only had a few matches left in his career. It was stupid and I think was the beginning of why Kurt Angle isn't in WWE anymore.
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Sept 12, 2009 22:29:43 GMT -5
Every time the Giant joined the nWo. It never made any sense. Same with avage. The first time he joined wasn't bad because no one expected it. He came out and it looked like he was going to destroy Hogan and The Outsiders but instead started helping them. The rest of the times where he went back and forth like three or four more times was stupid.
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