Overrated HBK matches

[Porter]

I don't get the love for HBK/Angle WM 21,HBK/Vince WM 22,HBK/Cena
WM 23 and the first HIAC.I haven't seen HBK/Flair and HBK/Taker but
some say they're overrated too.

What matches of his are overrated to you?

I just don't believe he "always steal the show" like we're programmed
to think.

[Deleted]

neither HBK/Flair or HBK/Taker are over rated at all imho.

HBK/Flair is the greatest piece of psychology i have ever seen.

HBK/Taker is the greatest piece of drama in ring i have ever seen... it felt like wrestling nirvana watching it.

i'd say that his ironman match is overrated but most people don't seem to like it so i'd say its rated evenly enough... never quite got into it as i should've.

i do believe his first HIAC is slightly over rated in the fact that its not the greatest match ever which some claim it to be.

same with his ladder match... when it happened i'm sure it was the most amazing thing ever but since the all the TLC's and stuff its almost tame by today's standards... back in the day though it must've been amazing.

in my opinion HBK puts on his best performance when there aren't any stipulations.

his straight up matches with Flair, Taker, and Cena on raw were simply incredible. Even if i think the Cena match is a little over rated a bit it was amazing to just sit there and watch these two go for almost an hour on a random Raw... really made it seem like a special moment

[Bub (BLM)]

Easily the Flair match at WrestleMania 24. People confuse "memorable moment" with "great match". If it wasn't a Ric Flair retirement match, people wouldn't have said much about it. Also, the ending was incredibly stupid and melodramatic. "I'm sorry... I love you". You just called him "Old Yeller" six days ago. Make up your mind.

[calibancalhoun]

I guess his Jericho matches last year weren't as great as everyone makes them out to be, nobody programmed me to like HBK...well I guess HBK did by being so darn entertaining

[Soultastic]

I find that HBK/Flair and HBK/Taker are extremely overrated, but that doesn't mean they were bad matches. They were fantastic, but I just don't see why sometimes people act like those are the 2 best matches ever.

[Mozenrath]

If it wasn't for the match atmosphere, the title match vs Austin wouldn't of been that great.

Then there's the Ironman with Bret. Thank you, WWE, I had been having trouble sleeping. For some reason, an hour draw isn't that boring, but an Ironman match that goes has only one fall is boring as all hell. I guess the timer just reminds you how long it's been.

[don]

Dec 20, 2009 22:35:56 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

Easily the Flair match at WrestleMania 24. People confuse "memorable moment" with "great match". If it wasn't a Ric Flair retirement match, people wouldn't have said much about it. Also, the ending was incredibly stupid and melodramatic. "I'm sorry... I love you". You just called him "Old Yeller" six days ago. Make up your mind.

I don't mean any disrespect to you by any means, but thre Ric Flair match was overflowing with psychology. Some fans seem to confuse ring psychology with working the arm for 30 minutes or so to prevent your opponent from hitting a clothesline or something. However, ring psychology is about creating a story within a match and making the audience feel your emotion. Also, you can't take out the fact that this was Ric Flair's retirement match because that was the story of the match. It had to be, as there was nothing that would have made that match more important, including a world title being on the line. There is a point in the Ric Flair/HBK match where Shawn is tuning up the band and, as JR puts it "can't pull the trigger" after looking into Ric Flair's eyes. He hesitates, and Flair capitalizes, slapping on the figure four. The story of the match was whether or not HBK had the heart to retire his idol, his role model, his child hood hero. Then there is a moment where HBK is tuning up the band and ready to finish Flair off, and Flair responds with the greatest counter I've ever seen to Sweet Chin Music: he simply just stayed down. Michaels is pleading with Flair, practically begging him to get up. At that point, Flair simply can't come to terms with the end of his career. He would stay down forever if he could to avoid the end. Finally, as Ric Flair gets to his feet when Shawn is tuning up the band for the final time, Flair has tears in his eyes and is telling Shawn to come on. He has accepted the fact that he can not hang with the best wrestler in the world at that moment. He has accepted his fate at the hands of HBK. Shawn's "I'm sorry...I love you..." is his acceptance of his own fate. He has to be the one to end Ric Flair's career, not because he wanted to, but because Flair wants his career ended by the best. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the greatest story ever told in a wrestling ring. Overrated? Oh hell no. This was an emotional roller coaster and a hell of a great match.

[01010010 01101001 01100011]

Not big as others on the Jericho matches.

[GaTechGrad]

I agree that this year's Michaels/Undertaker match at WM was overrated. A couple of spots followed by huge rest breaks... plus Undertaker pops his eyes out when Michaels kicks out. I was really bored during the match.

[darthobiwan]

his match with mick foley in 1996. While it is a good match (even foley said it was his best ever) they have both been in far better matches.

[hbk4ever09]

Most o his matches are "overrated" based on the crowd being hotter in his matches than 99% of the roster. Which he has earned.

[skiller]

vs. Hart at WM 12
- Proves the point that no matter how good the wrestlers are, if you book a match badly, it won't come out well. Having an iron man match with one fall, isn't any better than booking a hardcore match with no weapons.

vs. Cena at WM 23
- I can't stand this match. Erratic flow, pointless leg work, exact same finish as the main event of the previous year. Almost everything about this match just felt flat.

vs. Triple H at Bad Blood '04
- AKA how long can we drag out this match in the hopes of forcing a classic.

vs. Jericho at No Mercy '08
- I hate to say it, but as much as I loved the feud between these two, I thought this was a weak ending. Not really up to the level of either's efforts in previous ladder matches.

[triplealbert]

Dec 20, 2009 23:09:38 GMT -5 @don said:

Dec 20, 2009 22:35:56 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

Easily the Flair match at WrestleMania 24. People confuse "memorable moment" with "great match". If it wasn't a Ric Flair retirement match, people wouldn't have said much about it. Also, the ending was incredibly stupid and melodramatic. "I'm sorry... I love you". You just called him "Old Yeller" six days ago. Make up your mind.

I don't mean any disrespect to you by any means, but thre Ric Flair match was overflowing with psychology. Some fans seem to confuse ring psychology with working the arm for 30 minutes or so to prevent your opponent from hitting a clothesline or something. However, ring psychology is about creating a story within a match and making the audience feel your emotion. Also, you can't take out the fact that this was Ric Flair's retirement match because that was the story of the match. It had to be, as there was nothing that would have made that match more important, including a world title being on the line. There is a point in the Ric Flair/HBK match where Shawn is tuning up the band and, as JR puts it "can't pull the trigger" after looking into Ric Flair's eyes. He hesitates, and Flair capitalizes, slapping on the figure four. The story of the match was whether or not HBK had the heart to retire his idol, his role model, his child hood hero. Then there is a moment where HBK is tuning up the band and ready to finish Flair off, and Flair responds with the greatest counter I've ever seen to Sweet Chin Music: he simply just stayed down. Michaels is pleading with Flair, practically begging him to get up. At that point, Flair simply can't come to terms with the end of his career. He would stay down forever if he could to avoid the end. Finally, as Ric Flair gets to his feet when Shawn is tuning up the band for the final time, Flair has tears in his eyes and is telling Shawn to come on. He has accepted the fact that he can not hang with the best wrestler in the world at that moment. He has accepted his fate at the hands of HBK. Shawn's "I'm sorry...I love you..." is his acceptance of his own fate. He has to be the one to end Ric Flair's career, not because he wanted to, but because Flair wants his career ended by the best. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the greatest story ever told in a wrestling ring. Overrated? Oh hell no. This was an emotional roller coaster and a hell of a great match.

great analysis my man

[BRV]

- vs. Bret Hart at WrestleMania XII
- vs. Triple H at Bad Blood 2004
- vs. Shawn Michaels at Raw in 2007

Look, just because a match is really long doesn't always mean it's a classic. All three matches have their moments, but they also have extended, 25-minute periods where seemingly nothing happens.

[01010010 01101001 01100011]

Dec 20, 2009 23:53:51 GMT -5 BRV said:

- vs. Shawn Michaels at Raw in 2007

Look, just because a match is really long doesn't always mean it's a classic. All three matches have their moments, but they also have extended, 25-minute periods where seemingly nothing happens.

If a man can wrestle himself for over 25 minutes, that cannot be overrated.

[Long Live the Stream]

The near hour long in the UK with Cena is the only one that I feel is overrated. They basically went an hour for the sake of going an hour IMO.

[kennerado]

One of the ladder matches with Razor, maybe the second one.

[El Hijo del Havoc]

Vs Ric Flair WM 24. It was not an 'instant classic'. If it wasn't for the sappy last 10 seconds of the match, we'd be talking about it like we talk about his HBK/Diesel WM 11 match

[wwerules60]

Dec 20, 2009 23:09:38 GMT -5 @don said:

Dec 20, 2009 22:35:56 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

Easily the Flair match at WrestleMania 24. People confuse "memorable moment" with "great match". If it wasn't a Ric Flair retirement match, people wouldn't have said much about it. Also, the ending was incredibly stupid and melodramatic. "I'm sorry... I love you". You just called him "Old Yeller" six days ago. Make up your mind.

I don't mean any disrespect to you by any means, but thre Ric Flair match was overflowing with psychology. Some fans seem to confuse ring psychology with working the arm for 30 minutes or so to prevent your opponent from hitting a clothesline or something. However, ring psychology is about creating a story within a match and making the audience feel your emotion. Also, you can't take out the fact that this was Ric Flair's retirement match because that was the story of the match. It had to be, as there was nothing that would have made that match more important, including a world title being on the line. There is a point in the Ric Flair/HBK match where Shawn is tuning up the band and, as JR puts it "can't pull the trigger" after looking into Ric Flair's eyes. He hesitates, and Flair capitalizes, slapping on the figure four. The story of the match was whether or not HBK had the heart to retire his idol, his role model, his child hood hero. Then there is a moment where HBK is tuning up the band and ready to finish Flair off, and Flair responds with the greatest counter I've ever seen to Sweet Chin Music: he simply just stayed down. Michaels is pleading with Flair, practically begging him to get up. At that point, Flair simply can't come to terms with the end of his career. He would stay down forever if he could to avoid the end. Finally, as Ric Flair gets to his feet when Shawn is tuning up the band for the final time, Flair has tears in his eyes and is telling Shawn to come on. He has accepted the fact that he can not hang with the best wrestler in the world at that moment. He has accepted his fate at the hands of HBK. Shawn's "I'm sorry...I love you..." is his acceptance of his own fate. He has to be the one to end Ric Flair's career, not because he wanted to, but because Flair wants his career ended by the best. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the greatest story ever told in a wrestling ring. Overrated? Oh hell no. This was an emotional roller coaster and a hell of a great match.

This times a million, I don't know what your definition of a "great match" is but I would call this one it and it being Flair's retirement match made it that much greater as the person I've quoted has pointed out. Wrestling isn't about a bunch of flashy moves it's about telling a story and sucking the fans into the match and this match did both perfectly.

I'll say the same about the Bret Hart iron man match too that seems to get a lot of flack online, the "storytelling" in that match was fantastic.

[skiller]

Dec 21, 2009 0:27:38 GMT -5 wwerules60 said:

Dec 20, 2009 23:09:38 GMT -5 @don said:

I don't mean any disrespect to you by any means, but thre Ric Flair match was overflowing with psychology. Some fans seem to confuse ring psychology with working the arm for 30 minutes or so to prevent your opponent from hitting a clothesline or something. However, ring psychology is about creating a story within a match and making the audience feel your emotion. Also, you can't take out the fact that this was Ric Flair's retirement match because that was the story of the match. It had to be, as there was nothing that would have made that match more important, including a world title being on the line. There is a point in the Ric Flair/HBK match where Shawn is tuning up the band and, as JR puts it "can't pull the trigger" after looking into Ric Flair's eyes. He hesitates, and Flair capitalizes, slapping on the figure four. The story of the match was whether or not HBK had the heart to retire his idol, his role model, his child hood hero. Then there is a moment where HBK is tuning up the band and ready to finish Flair off, and Flair responds with the greatest counter I've ever seen to Sweet Chin Music: he simply just stayed down. Michaels is pleading with Flair, practically begging him to get up. At that point, Flair simply can't come to terms with the end of his career. He would stay down forever if he could to avoid the end. Finally, as Ric Flair gets to his feet when Shawn is tuning up the band for the final time, Flair has tears in his eyes and is telling Shawn to come on. He has accepted the fact that he can not hang with the best wrestler in the world at that moment. He has accepted his fate at the hands of HBK. Shawn's "I'm sorry...I love you..." is his acceptance of his own fate. He has to be the one to end Ric Flair's career, not because he wanted to, but because Flair wants his career ended by the best. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the greatest story ever told in a wrestling ring. Overrated? Oh hell no. This was an emotional roller coaster and a hell of a great match.

This times a million, I don't know what your definition of a "great match" is but I would call this one it and it being Flair's retirement match made it that much greater as the person I've quoted has pointed out. Wrestling isn't about a bunch of flashy moves it's about telling a story and sucking the fans into the match and this match did both perfectly.

I'll say the same about the Bret Hart iron man match too that seems to get a lot of flack online, the "storytelling" in that match was fantastic.

What was the storytelling in that match?