Ralnathane
Team Rocket
I love to fight.
Posts: 780
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Post by Ralnathane on Dec 12, 2009 4:11:57 GMT -5
I agree that the promotions need to either choose to be more of a sport, or choose to be entertainment for the benefit of the wrestlers.
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Post by manstis1804 on Dec 12, 2009 13:34:32 GMT -5
Bret took the business very seriously and he had great foresight. Going with an anti-American gimmick, especially if you're one of the top stars in the world, can cause an irreparable rift with the fans. Stone Cold Steve Austin never really recovered as a face after he initially turned heel, until he left and came back again. Hogan recovered because he returned to WWE and everyone wanted the nostalgia of the red and yellow and flexing and whatnot. Bret was simply looking at the future. He would have to be a heel for the rest of his foreseeable career in the WWF, he couldn't take back the things he said about the country and it's citizens, and in certain parts of the country the fans would never forgive him for it. You have to remember, this was all before the Montreal Screwjob, which really kicked in the remains of kayfabe, and when he was coming up kayfabe was the way of life. Wrestling was different back then, fans took it more seriously as well, so we can't really look at it just through today's context. The Screwjob itself gave Bret so much sympathy that he couldn't be anything but a face for the rest of his career. But, had he remained in WWE after Survivor Series 1997, it would've been really hard to turn him back without the WWF and Bret and the fans looking stupid.
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Albino Heat
Don Corleone
You're a nasty bastard, and your momma said so!!
Posts: 2,095
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Post by Albino Heat on Dec 12, 2009 13:42:51 GMT -5
In the age we live in, I don't think it is possible to keep kayfabe unless a wrestler plays it to max.
We have cell phones with cameras, the internet, youtube, twitter, and a hundred different other ways to get access to information we never have before. Nothing is really "behind the curtain" anymore. Face it, the magic on a lot of things is dead.
Now there are certain instances when kayfabe still can work, like when the Sandman "injured his eyes" and stayed in his house to sell the injury. But for a sustained angle, I don't know if kayfabe can be viable anymore.
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Post by manstis1804 on Dec 12, 2009 13:51:25 GMT -5
Right but before it was just word of mouth, someone saw Heel A and Face B or whoever drinking in public together and told everyone about it. These days, telling everyone about it means more people in a lot less time, but if the wrestlers kayfabe in public then there's nothing for the cell phone cameras to take pictures of and nothing to post on youtube and twitter. If anything, they should do it for the kids they're marketing to because kids want to think it's real, and once they find out it's not real hopefully they're hooked. I don't know about a lot of fans, but when I started watching I thought it was real and that's why I liked it. If I knew from the beginning it was a bunch of dudes fake fighting in their manties and leotards I wouldn't have stuck on like I have .
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Post by tylerdrew on Dec 12, 2009 15:01:24 GMT -5
See to me the Hart deal is has almost nothing to do with kayfabe and has alot more to do with building a real and consistent character which kayfabe or not it seems like a good thing. Dedication to building your character well and making his motivations believable is a positive if that character is a non-kayfabed character on a TV show OR if he's a "wrestling character" in the traditional kayfabed sense.
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Post by Macho Dude Handy Damage on Dec 12, 2009 20:57:48 GMT -5
So I watched wrestling with shadows again today. One thing that struck me is how Bret was so passionate about his character and how turning heel meant he couldnt go back to being face due to him slagging off the USA. This got me wondering, in an age where Morrison turns face....just because, do characters matter anymore? Was Bret part of the dying race? I think the thing about Bret Hart's heel turn was that he alienated an entire country. He would have had to do something really dramatic to turn him back. Nah, I don't think so. The people still respected the hell out of Bret, I think. Making Bret face again probably wouldn't be a problem. Just do like a Crow Sting thing. Take him off TV for a few months or so, have him do a big return, the people would have cheered Bret like crazy I think. Just be happy to see him back.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 12, 2009 22:51:22 GMT -5
See to me the Hart deal is has almost nothing to do with kayfabe and has alot more to do with building a real and consistent character which kayfabe or not it seems like a good thing. Dedication to building your character well and making his motivations believable is a positive if that character is a non-kayfabed character on a TV show OR if he's a "wrestling character" in the traditional kayfabed sense. Absolutely correct; even if you don't follow any of the classic rules of kayfabe as a wrestler, you still need to operate on the job with a goal of getting the fans to suspend their disbelief, and to get them to either cheer or boo you with tons of energy, the kind of energy that usually doesn't show when a person is watching a scripted event. You don't achieve that by spending too much time winking at the camera or undercutting the seriousness of the storylines you're in. Not that you can't be silly, and not that there can't be humorous angles/feuds/characters/etc., but when you want to really get the fans invested in something, it has to be done with a level of seriousness to up the emotional involvement.
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