EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
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Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Dec 14, 2009 18:34:50 GMT -5
Someone needs to be fired for Toronto getting screwed in this trade. I thought he was. If Ricciardi wasn't so insistent on having our entire farm system, then he could have made the deal last year. Philly was willing to part with either Brown or Taylor, JA Happ, and one or two smaller prospects, but he wanted the whole sha-bang. So now they have to live with what they got.
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Post by MGH on Dec 14, 2009 18:38:54 GMT -5
Lackey to the Red Sox. I like it.
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domrep
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Post by domrep on Dec 14, 2009 18:39:01 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks Seattle came out the best in this deal? Phillies gave up prospects, and got Halladay back. I mean, in the end, one could argue Philly is in the same position they were before the deal. I'm not suggesting Lee is on par with Halladay but Lee is pretty damn good. I just don't understand it from a Philly perspective.
And Seattle gives up more prospects? As if giving up the what...4 they gave up last year for Bedard wasn't enough?
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EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
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Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Dec 14, 2009 18:46:15 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks Seattle came out the best in this deal? Phillies gave up prospects, and got Halladay back. I mean, in the end, one could argue Philly is in the same position they were before the deal. I'm not suggesting Lee is on par with Halladay but Lee is pretty damn good. I just don't understand it from a Philly perspective. Lee has said he wants to test the market and has shown no signs of wanting an extension of his contract. Whereas reports are Halladay is very willing to sign an extension and not become a free agent. So rather than getting the couple of draft picks at the end of the year, the Phillies got another ace who will be here for 3-4 more years. Also, if they waited, there was almost no chance they could have signed Lee or Halladay as a free agent (The Yankees or Sox would have paid a king's ransom for each of them) and to trade for Halladay without Lee would mean giving up the majority of their farm, which they weren't willing to do in July when they would have had Halladay for a year and a half. That's the only reason for making the deal from their perspective. They get an ace for longer rather than really only having one more year.
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stealthamo
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Post by stealthamo on Dec 14, 2009 18:47:17 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks Seattle came out the best in this deal? Phillies gave up prospects, and got Halladay back. I mean, in the end, one could argue Philly is in the same position they were before the deal. I'm not suggesting Lee is on par with Halladay but Lee is pretty damn good. I just don't understand it from a Philly perspective. And Seattle gives up more prospects? As if giving up the what...4 they gave up last year for Bedard wasn't enough? If Lee signs an extension, I think the Mariners got the better end of the deal. But seeing as how Lee liking won't sign an extension, I think the Phillies get the best end of the deal with Halladay likely signing an extension with this deal.
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Post by Insomniac on Dec 14, 2009 18:49:12 GMT -5
Lackey to the Red Sox. I like it. I don't. 5/$85M for a guy averaging 25 starts per season the last two years is way too much IMO. I think the fallout from this is Buchholz finally getting dealt to San Diego for Adrian Gonzalez, and Boston filling the gap in LF with Mike Cameron (they're talking to him about a possible 2-year deal).
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Dec 14, 2009 18:51:02 GMT -5
Tyler Kepner of the New York Times has confirmed that the Angels and DH Hideki Matsui have agreed to a one-year contract.
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The Line
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Post by The Line on Dec 14, 2009 18:57:29 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks Seattle came out the best in this deal? Phillies gave up prospects, and got Halladay back. I mean, in the end, one could argue Philly is in the same position they were before the deal. I'm not suggesting Lee is on par with Halladay but Lee is pretty damn good. I just don't understand it from a Philly perspective. And Seattle gives up more prospects? As if giving up the what...4 they gave up last year for Bedard wasn't enough? Yeah, I'd say the move from Lee to Halladay is pretty lateral. Halladay has had more consistent success for sure, but I think right now they are about even, with Halladay having a slight edge on Lee. So really they're giving up prospects for someone who will probably give them at most 3 more wins than what they would have got with who they already had. Seattle gives up a few prospects for a recent Cy Young winner to come in and be the number #2 guy. This is a great move by Seattle, because rather than signing someone like Lackey, making the trade for Lee saves Seattle a lot more money, so Seattle could still end up signing another big/semi-big name or two. Also, last year's rotation was extremely inconsistent with the exception of King Felix. And unless Seattle goes after getting Washburn or Bedard back, they will have a lot of guys with not much combined experience as a big league starter. Cliff Lee has excelled in big time situations, something that they have not in one of their pitchers in a long time. Also, Cliff Lee would be older than every other pitcher that is likely to make the M's starting rotation(Felix, Snell, Fister, Rowland-Smith) by anywhere from 3 to 8 years. He could easily serve as a mentor, as he has experience both in terms of amount of time played and success in big situations. The Jays on the other hand really don't get anything definite in return, but I guess the way they see it is its better to trade him now and get a decent smattering of decent or better prospects than to see him walk after the season and only get a draft pick in return. We really won't know the full value of this trade on their end for a few years.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Dec 14, 2009 19:00:16 GMT -5
Someone needs to be fired for Toronto getting screwed in this trade. I thought he was. If Ricciardi wasn't so insistent on having our entire farm system, then he could have made the deal last year. Philly was willing to part with either Brown or Taylor, JA Happ, and one or two smaller prospects, but he wanted the whole sha-bang. So now they have to live with what they got. We got robbed....plain and simple. And dont say we didnt.
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EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
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Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Dec 14, 2009 19:02:21 GMT -5
I thought he was. If Ricciardi wasn't so insistent on having our entire farm system, then he could have made the deal last year. Philly was willing to part with either Brown or Taylor, JA Happ, and one or two smaller prospects, but he wanted the whole sha-bang. So now they have to live with what they got. We got robbed....plain and simple. And dont say we didnt. Oh no you did get robbed here. But Ricciardi is part of the reason why.
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domrep
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Post by domrep on Dec 14, 2009 19:12:39 GMT -5
I'm just saying that regardless of whether or not Halladay gets an extension, like the poster above alluded to, going from Lee to Roy isn't that great of a jump. I just don't understand it, but whatever. The move wasn't really necessary, but I'm just a guy.
Toronto ends up with an epic fail on their part and it looks like the O's will compete with the Rays for 3rd place now.
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Post by BD Punk AKA SUSPENDED! on Dec 14, 2009 19:15:55 GMT -5
We got robbed....plain and simple. And dont say we didnt. Oh no you did get robbed here. But Ricciardi is part of the reason why. Yep, Retardi could have had Happ/Taylor or Brown/another prospect or 2 for Halladay. Even after Amaro had the Lee deal in place, he called Retardi and offered the Jays the same deal he had for Lee, Marson/Donald/Carrasco/Knapp for Halladay. JP didn't take either. Now, essentially the Jays get Aumont/D'Arnaud/Taylor or Brown for Halladay. Travis D'Arnaud is the Phils best catching prospect, Taylor and Brown are both considered studs by many scouts and from what I've heard about Aumont is he feels like he's a starter, but the M's seemed to have been making him a reliever.
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Post by BD Punk AKA SUSPENDED! on Dec 14, 2009 19:23:24 GMT -5
I'm just saying that regardless of whether or not Halladay gets an extension, like the poster above alluded to, going from Lee to Roy isn't that great of a jump. I just don't understand it, but whatever. The move wasn't really necessary, but I'm just a guy. Toronto ends up with an epic fail on their part and it looks like the O's will compete with the Rays for 3rd place now. Going from Lee to Halladay can be seen as a lateral move, but there are a few reasons why this is a smart move by the Phils. -Lee wants to test the free agent market after this year. He already told the Phils that he wasn't giving them a discount. He wants Sabathia money -Halladay is currently negotiating a contract extension believed to be 3 years at 20 mil per with a 1 year option. So, the Phils traded Cliff Lee's 2010 season for Halladay's 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, and possibly 2014 seasons -The Phils already have at least 2 lefties in their 2010 rotation in Cole Hamels and J.A. Happ. They need a righty to go along with Joe Blanton
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Post by Insomniac on Dec 14, 2009 19:28:47 GMT -5
Halladay is going to be ridiculous in the National League. Better than Lee, no doubt in my mind.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2009 19:51:57 GMT -5
Halladay is going to be ridiculous in the National League. Better than Lee, no doubt in my mind. I think he'll look better only cause the teams of the NL East are much more weaker compared to the teams of the AL East (no offense to fans whose teams are in the NL East) BA wise, he's 3 for 38. Wonder if it'll get any better now that it'll become a regular thing for him now.
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Post by stealthamo on Dec 14, 2009 19:58:40 GMT -5
Halladay is going to be ridiculous in the National League. Better than Lee, no doubt in my mind. I think he'll look better only cause the teams of the NL East are much more weaker compared to the teams of the AL East (no offense to fans whose teams are in the NL East) BA wise, he's 3 for 38. Wonder if it'll get any better now that it'll become a regular thing for him now. Agreed (at least with the first part). The AL East is usually the best division in baseball, and Halladay usually dominated there. Who knows how good he'll do in a worse division.
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Post by Insomniac on Dec 14, 2009 20:03:09 GMT -5
I think he'll look better only cause the teams of the NL East are much more weaker compared to the teams of the AL East (no offense to fans whose teams are in the NL East) BA wise, he's 3 for 38. Wonder if it'll get any better now that it'll become a regular thing for him now. Well Lee was 2-for-32 with Cleveland prior to the Philly trade. He managed to go 7-for-33 (.212) after the trade. Makes sense that he'd improve his numbers at the plate after taking batting practice much more often that previously. Usually AL pitchers only take batting practice (a) before interleague play begins, and (b) before the World Series. And yeah, that's why he'll dominate the NL. The level of competition just isn't what it was in the AL. He faced Boston and New York 9 times last year. He's gonna have a low-2.00 ERA next year. Citizen's Bank park won't affect him negatively since he's a groundball-strikeout pitcher.
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Post by H-Fist on Dec 14, 2009 20:05:29 GMT -5
I think he'll look better only cause the teams of the NL East are much more weaker compared to the teams of the AL East (no offense to fans whose teams are in the NL East) BA wise, he's 3 for 38. Wonder if it'll get any better now that it'll become a regular thing for him now. Agreed (at least with the first part). The AL East is usually the best division in baseball, and Halladay usually dominated there. Who knows how good he'll do in a worse division. Son of a bitch. Why did I take this job?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2009 21:03:50 GMT -5
Hideki Matsui has signed a 1yr/$6.5m deal with the Angels
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Post by ani on Dec 14, 2009 21:16:09 GMT -5
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