EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Dec 14, 2009 21:18:43 GMT -5
OK, this is retarded if we give up Taylor/Brown and Drabek. Then why not just trade straight up for Halladay at that point and take a bit of a loss this year in signing Halladay to an extension. If this is true Amaro is a goddamn moron.
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Post by ani on Dec 14, 2009 21:20:47 GMT -5
OK, this is retarded if we give up Taylor/Brown and Drabek. Then why not just trade straight up for Halladay at that point and take a bit of a loss this year in signing Halladay to an extension. If this is true Amaro is a goddamn moron. Brown sounds like he is staying so I guess they'll get pitching. Travis D'Arneuad (or however you spell it) is rumored to be in the deal. Oh and Amount is out. I have no f***ing clue who is getting who
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EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Dec 14, 2009 21:28:17 GMT -5
Still, the whole reason for NOT trading before was keeping Drabek. Now they're moving him AND Lee. That's stupid.
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Post by Insomniac on Dec 14, 2009 21:38:25 GMT -5
Mike Cameron going to Boston. 2 years, $15.5M. I like the focus on defense this offseason, which was a major problem last year. Cameron would be great in either LF or CF. A decent, cheap alternative to Bay/Holliday.
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Post by ani on Dec 14, 2009 21:39:07 GMT -5
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BRV
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Post by BRV on Dec 14, 2009 22:01:17 GMT -5
Mike Cameron going to Boston. 2 years, $15.5M. I like the focus on defense this offseason, which was a major problem last year. Cameron would be great in either LF or CF. A decent, cheap alternative to Bay/Holliday. Does this all but signal the end of any Jason Bay/Matt Holliday talks? I feel like the Red Sox wouldn't be throwing two years and $15.5 at a bench player. EDIT - Well, his defense might be solid, but I'm a little concerned about the strikeouts (156 last season) and the low OBP (.340 career). He's averaged about 20 HRs and 70 RBIs the past few years, so he'll be able to replace the offensive production from Mike Lowell. The Red Sox had a busy day today, but they can't just call it an off-season. The offense still needs work. I really want to see them go balls-out after Adrian Gonzalez, or, to a lesser extent, Miguel Cabrera. They need a power hitter that opposing pitchers will have to dance around, opening up the opportunities for Youkilis or Victor Martinez.
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Post by BD Punk AKA SUSPENDED! on Dec 14, 2009 22:02:36 GMT -5
I have read soooo many rumors tonight that my head is spinning. The Phils wouldn't trade Drabek back in July, so why would they do it now? Many of these deals I've read make no sense on the Phils part.
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Post by Insomniac on Dec 14, 2009 22:05:21 GMT -5
Mike Cameron going to Boston. 2 years, $15.5M. I like the focus on defense this offseason, which was a major problem last year. Cameron would be great in either LF or CF. A decent, cheap alternative to Bay/Holliday. Does this all but signal the end of any Jason Bay/Matt Holliday talks? I feel like the Red Sox wouldn't be throwing two years and $15.5 at a bench player. Yeah, no Bay or Holliday. Although I thought the signing of Lackey pretty much made that clear. They weren't going to throw $85M at Lackey and then another $70M at Bay or $90-100M at Holliday. They still need another bat, however. If they sign Beltre, their defense is air-tight, but the offense will be somewhat lacking. I wanna see them make a significant run after Adrian now.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Dec 14, 2009 23:14:22 GMT -5
Cameron has a little pop in his bat but as a replacement for Bay? Thats a downgrade. This team still looks putrid offensively. Im not floored by Lackey but this gives the Sox a competent and solid 1-5
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Post by Insomniac on Dec 14, 2009 23:27:01 GMT -5
Cameron has a little pop in his bat but as a replacement for Bay? Thats a downgrade. This team still looks putrid offensively. Im not floored by Lackey but this gives the Sox a competent and solid 1-5 Bay -> Cameron is a downgrade from an offensive standpoint, there's no denying that. However, Bay -> Cameron is a significant defensive upgrade, and I think when it comes to valuing players on the open market, defense tends to get far too overlooked. Putting Cameron in left, where he'll have much better range than Bay, more speed, and a stronger arm, that'll help out the pitching staff quite a bit. And Cameron, while not the hitter Bay is, can still mash lefties and I can see him putting up very respectable power numbers at Fenway. Most importantly, he costs you less than Bay and is locked up for fewer years. The money saved is used to help sign Lackey, and the signing of Lackey opens up the door to trade Buchholz for Gonzalez. If they stay where they are and only sign Beltre, I'll be disappointed. But if this leads to a Gonzalez deal, it makes them better than last year. That would upgrade the offense (Gonzalez + Cameron > Bay + Lowell), make the defense much stronger, and their pitching staff will be improved.
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Franchise
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Post by Franchise on Dec 15, 2009 0:32:02 GMT -5
Well, time for me to weigh in. And it's really difficult for me to do so when I'm not sure who Toronto's getting. If we get Drabek AND one of Taylor/Brown, along with a prospect or two from Seattle (I'm hoping Morrow...a man can dream, can't he?) then I think it's a big success. I guess we'll have to see what tomorrow brings. Sad to see Halladay go, but everyone knew this was coming for a long time. I wasn't expecting Lee to get traded, but if it turns out well for us, then so be it.
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Post by ani on Dec 15, 2009 0:56:36 GMT -5
The Halladay deal as of before I go to bed looks like this:
Phillies get: Roy Halladay Phillipe Aumont Tyson Gillies Third player from Seattle not known yet 6 million from Toronto
Jays get: Michael Taylor Kyle Drabek Travis D'Arnaud (Not 100% confirmed)
Mariners get: Cliff Lee Possibly a 2nd player or maybe a third.
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EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
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Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Dec 15, 2009 2:11:15 GMT -5
The Halladay deal as of before I go to bed looks like this: Phillies get: Roy Halladay Phillipe Aumont Tyson Gillies Third player from Seattle not known yet 6 million from Toronto Jays get: Michael Taylor Kyle Drabek Travis D'Arnaud (Not 100% confirmed) Mariners get: Cliff Lee Possibly a 2nd player or maybe a third. What's weird is that it's not even really a three team trade, but rather two separate trades unless Toronto sends someone to Seattle. Which begs the question...WHY TRADE LEE? Jesus, trade Blanton. He's only going to cost about $2M less, and you'll at least get a decent prospect in return for him. So the only reason to give up Lee is to somehow rebuild the farm. But, in exchange we're giving up the possibility of having a rotation of Halladay, Lee and Hamels at the top. Who could even stop the Phillies in the NL? They could pretty much print the World Series tickets now. I don't get this if that's the case. Yes, Halladay for 3-4 years is great, but why didn't you just make this trade in July? It's almost the same.
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Dec 15, 2009 2:38:25 GMT -5
Will Houston have to wait till the end of Kyle's career for him to come here like his dad?
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Post by ani on Dec 15, 2009 9:57:27 GMT -5
Juan Ramirez is the third guy the Mariners are sending Philly.
Still unknown who else Seattle will get.
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EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Dec 15, 2009 10:45:36 GMT -5
The more I think about this, the more I have to believe the owners are at fault for screwing this up. Basically, all we did was swap Lee for Halladay and replace the lost prospects with Seattle's. If the owners would just fork over another $15M, they could have had an awesome rotation. Instead, we're maybe just slightly better off.
Also, Amaro looks awful coming out of this mess. He basically made the trade he refused to do in July and traded basically all of our 2009 top 10 prospects for one pitcher and a handful of another teams arguably inferior ones. He somehow gave Toronto what they were asking for AFTER they lost all of their leverage. I just don't get it. He should have made the deal in July and we could have had this taken care of then and still kept at least part of our system.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 10:56:31 GMT -5
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stealthamo
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Post by stealthamo on Dec 15, 2009 12:01:13 GMT -5
ESPN saying the Dodgers have traded Juan Pierre to the Red Sox for two players to be named later.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Dec 15, 2009 12:02:19 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 12:03:39 GMT -5
ESPN saying the Dodgers have traded Juan Pierre to the Red Sox for two players to be named later. Actually it's the White Sox that's getting him. Word is going around that the Halladay deal may not be completed until tomorrow
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