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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Jul 16, 2010 17:56:57 GMT -5
In my opinion a true burial is when you went from wrestling in big arenas to wrestle in some backyard or low class indy federation
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Jul 16, 2010 18:08:58 GMT -5
You do have a point. The problem is though that at the moment WWE PPV buyrates are down from where they were. Part of that is due to many of the main eventers being the same guys from the the past few years. They need to try and push as many people as they can as possible in order to fill those gaps. Sheamus alone isn't going to cut it, and even he isn't a true main eventer in some people's eyes. They need to push people while they still have the old guard around to help them get there. Eventually these guys at the top are going to have to step down due to injuries and such, some already have. Even guys like Cena and Orton may go down sometime soon due to an injury or two. That's where you need all these other guys to come in and fill those gaps. The WWE needs to try and push as many people as possible while they still can in order to prevent any of the current main eventers going down from hurting their business. That's why some people get upset when WWE constantly stalls out a wrestler's push. It's stupid and now is not the time for it. They need to push these new faces hard and fast. That's the only way most of them are going to get over. Not everyone is going to improve to the levels of Miz or get over purely based on their in ring work like Evan. Some people are going to need all the help that they can get. Sure, some may not be ready for these pushes, in fact most of them probably won't make it. You never know if someone will get over though until you at least try. That's what WWE needs to do right now: try and give guys legitimate pushes. Of course that doesn't mean everyone needs to be pushed at once. Nobody will get over if you do that. They already do exactly that. Miz is where he is because he has improved but without the machine behind him he wouldn't be winning like he does, and same with Evan. They book him against the likes of Jericho and Edge because they are bringing him up a level. They didn't put him there because of his ability, they put him there because they want to establish him. They don't stall pushes either. They give them a shot, they see how it goes, and if they do well, they stay. The Kofi example is always used, but he was elevated. Before Orton he was a mid-card gimmick, now he is his own character with a real connection with the audience, and is in that position just underneath the main event. That is elevation. They make main eventers. They make upper-mid carders. They just can't have everyone in these spots. MVP is suffering because Christian and Kofi are on the same show that he is. They have a strong mid-card. If they decided to put MVP higher, they would be not having Christian win as much, and people would be complaining about burial there. Someone will always need to be losing more. Yeah, Kofi was elevated somewhat by that angle, but he could have been elevated so much faster and more effectively if he had gotten to beat Orton clean in their first pay per view match. It's not like one loss would have hurt Orton one bit. Why protect the guy when he needs no protection? Kofi on the other hand needed plenty of protection if the fans were ever going to take him seriously as a main eventer. Why go for the half assed push when you can go full bore with the guy? Or look at Miz. He should've gotten at least one win over Cena. Like Orton it would not have hurt him one bit. I mean the guy's been pinned by CARLITO before. Would losing to Miz really have been any worse than that? By having Miz lose in their first one on one match in five minutes, it just made him come off as a joke. Certainly not a credible main eventer. It didn't help that they beat that fact into our heads for weeks afterward with Cena beating Miz again and again and again. THIS is the reason why WWE has such a difficulty making new stars. Because they refuse to go all the way with their pushes. Do you think Sting would've have gotten over nearly as well if he got beaten by Ric Flair in every match of their feud? Would Batista have gotten over if he got beat by Triple H in everyone of their matches? It certainly didn't hurt either of those two to lose to the up and comers. WWE needs to stop treating their main eventers like fragile glass. One loss is not going to shatter their popularity.
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r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
Posts: 16,477
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Post by r. on Jul 16, 2010 20:06:45 GMT -5
i'll say this, instead of the 30 minute guest host segements on raw, they could be using that time to establish and or get over lesser known wrestlers.
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Post by maximilian on Jul 17, 2010 4:06:58 GMT -5
It's not hard to protect guys you're not currently pushing. They just don't bother.
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Reg the Veg
AC Slater
I SPIT ON YOUR CAPSLOCK... despite using it just then.
Posts: 205
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Post by Reg the Veg on Jul 17, 2010 5:41:31 GMT -5
in my opinion, some people, while not getting buried, are being underused. guys like yoshi and ryder have strong fan followings and seem ripe for a push, but there simply isn't room. but this is only a problem on raw. if anything, smackdown has the opposite problem in that they have a very thin roster. last night's smackdown was mainly made up of several appearances by all the main eventers, with the few midcarders they have putting on long matches to fill the time, whereas on raw they can afford to save a guy like randy orton for only one appearance a night, and make him seem more special.
the problem is that the draft this year raided smackdown, without actually working out if there was enough space on raw to accomodate the new talents, or indeed if there was enough talent on smackdown to fill the space.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Jul 17, 2010 6:40:25 GMT -5
They already do exactly that. Miz is where he is because he has improved but without the machine behind him he wouldn't be winning like he does, and same with Evan. They book him against the likes of Jericho and Edge because they are bringing him up a level. They didn't put him there because of his ability, they put him there because they want to establish him. They don't stall pushes either. They give them a shot, they see how it goes, and if they do well, they stay. The Kofi example is always used, but he was elevated. Before Orton he was a mid-card gimmick, now he is his own character with a real connection with the audience, and is in that position just underneath the main event. That is elevation. They make main eventers. They make upper-mid carders. They just can't have everyone in these spots. MVP is suffering because Christian and Kofi are on the same show that he is. They have a strong mid-card. If they decided to put MVP higher, they would be not having Christian win as much, and people would be complaining about burial there. Someone will always need to be losing more. Yeah, Kofi was elevated somewhat by that angle, but he could have been elevated so much faster and more effectively if he had gotten to beat Orton clean in their first pay per view match. It's not like one loss would have hurt Orton one bit. Why protect the guy when he needs no protection? Kofi on the other hand needed plenty of protection if the fans were ever going to take him seriously as a main eventer. Why go for the half assed push when you can go full bore with the guy? Or look at Miz. He should've gotten at least one win over Cena. Like Orton it would not have hurt him one bit. I mean the guy's been pinned by CARLITO before. Would losing to Miz really have been any worse than that? By having Miz lose in their first one on one match in five minutes, it just made him come off as a joke. Certainly not a credible main eventer. It didn't help that they beat that fact into our heads for weeks afterward with Cena beating Miz again and again and again. THIS is the reason why WWE has such a difficulty making new stars. Because they refuse to go all the way with their pushes. Do you think Sting would've have gotten over nearly as well if he got beaten by Ric Flair in every match of their feud? Would Batista have gotten over if he got beat by Triple H in everyone of their matches? It certainly didn't hurt either of those two to lose to the up and comers. WWE needs to stop treating their main eventers like fragile glass. One loss is not going to shatter their popularity. Of course Orton needs protection. So does Cena. These guys are supposed to be near unbeatable because that's their spot on the roster. It's not about fan reaction, because they would get that regardless, unless they want on an inexplicable losing streak for 6 months straight or something. It's about perception. You have Miz, who at that point was just some uncredible, too big for his boots mid-card tag team guy beat Cena and it shows the fans that Cena can be beaten by someone like Miz. That shouldn't happen. What that feud did was send Miz from where he was to someone who is now on the cusp of the main event and king of the mid-card, where as before he was where Zack Ryder is now. It wasn't about making him a main eventer, it was about bringing him to the level just below. So they did sustain his push. Exactly the same with Kofi. He went from mid-card gimmick to the cusp of the main event and king of the mid-card. They couldn't have Cena or Orton lose to those guys at that point in time though because then the perception would be that lower-midcarders could beat them. If Miz or Kofi beat Cena or Orton now it would be fine if they wanted to create a maineventer, and it wouldn't harm them.
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Jul 17, 2010 7:53:51 GMT -5
XXX is being buried? I didn't even know Vin Diesel was on the roster. Since when is Vin Diesel relevant today?
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