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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Jul 15, 2010 17:45:28 GMT -5
Just have to say, there's been a lot of threads lately asking why a certain wrestler is not being used properly, is being buried or whatever. There's one for Yoshi, one for Henry, one for Morrison etc.
Since the demise of ECW, there's been less space for anyone to get decent exposure. If Morrison and Yoshi aren't getting a push on Raw, it's because it's Evan Bourne and R-Truth getting a little run. If Ryder isn't, it's because The Miz is.
And this argument holds true with every single guy on the roster. Any guy you throw up, unless they are Cena, will always have someone above them because there's a ladder to climb, and spots to work through.
They are creating new stars. The guys they are giving the opportunities to have the crowd reacting to them. There really is no problem here, unless someone was so selfish as to say because their favourite wrestler isn't one of the ones lucky enough to be getting the push at this precise moment in time, that it's wrong.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 15, 2010 17:48:00 GMT -5
They're burying porn now?
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Post by Alexander The So-so on Jul 15, 2010 17:48:14 GMT -5
The secret agent played by Vin Diesel is being buried? I didn't even know he was in WWE!  |
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Jul 15, 2010 17:48:12 GMT -5
That's silly,only one member is even in WWE.
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Matt Dunn
Hank Scorpio
It was inevitable.
Posts: 5,596
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Post by Matt Dunn on Jul 15, 2010 17:48:57 GMT -5
Agreed. Just because someone is not getting the screentime they used to doesn't mean they are buried. And guys like Yoshi and Primo are glorified jobbers anyway.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jul 15, 2010 17:49:50 GMT -5
The secret agent played by Vin Diesel is being buried? I didn't even know he was in WWE! No, it's the guy from the crappy sequel. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2010 17:52:12 GMT -5
Jumping the gun a little?
Well they still have to hire Elix Skipper and Chris Daniels for that to happen.
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Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on Jul 15, 2010 17:53:52 GMT -5
They're burying porn now? They hope to grow a porn tree. |
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Post by rrm15 on Jul 15, 2010 17:54:10 GMT -5
For the most part thats true, there are only so many pushes to go around. But they could USE everyone at least. It doesn't necessarily have to be a push but they could at least FEATURE Yoshi Tatsu or Primo more prominently every now and then.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Jul 15, 2010 17:54:48 GMT -5
Agreed. Just because someone is not getting the screentime they used to doesn't mean they are buried. And guys like Yoshi and Primo are glorified jobbers anyway. Agreed. I think it actually just shows the quality of the roster nowadays, compared to a few years ago. Time was that there wasn't anyone even worth a push because it just wouldn't be worth the bother. But now, there are a heck of a lot of guys that get a reaction, and then the company gets blame for 'missing the opportunity', but firstly, they create the circumstances that give them that opportunity, and secondly, there's nothing wrong with having someone like Mark Henry be over in the mid-card. It could be so easy for Henry's music to hit now and the crowd to not give a crap, but it's great to see him come out to make a run-in and have the crowd cheer for the lower-carders like they actually mean something. Not everyone can get pushed, why don't people consider this before asking why someone is lower down the card? Surely you can see if Yoshi is not winning, at least consider which other faces are getting good exposure? |
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Jul 15, 2010 17:56:15 GMT -5
Jumping the gun a little? Well they still have to hire Elix Skipper and Chris Daniels for that to happen. Maybe they are the RAW GM? |
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Post by Lionheart on Jul 15, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Agreed. Just because someone is not getting the screentime they used to doesn't mean they are buried. And guys like Yoshi and Primo are glorified jobbers anyway. This what they have become, yes, which is what people object to. It's as if someone complains that their dinner is burnt and you tell them matter-of-factly that it was simply cooked too long and can't understand why they're upset. |
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Matt Dunn
Hank Scorpio
It was inevitable.
Posts: 5,596
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Post by Matt Dunn on Jul 15, 2010 18:00:01 GMT -5
Agreed. Just because someone is not getting the screentime they used to doesn't mean they are buried. And guys like Yoshi and Primo are glorified jobbers anyway. This what they have become, yes, which is what people object to. It's as if someone complains that their dinner is burnt and you tell them matter-of-factly that it was simply cooked too long and can't understand why they're upset. If ECW wasn't around when he debuted, Yoshi would've been used the same way he is now. He's Funaki 2.0. |
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Jul 15, 2010 18:00:15 GMT -5
Agreed. Just because someone is not getting the screentime they used to doesn't mean they are buried. And guys like Yoshi and Primo are glorified jobbers anyway. This what they have become, yes, which is what people object to. It's as if someone complains that their dinner is burnt and you tell them matter-of-factly that it was simply cooked too long and can't understand why they're upset. You make Yoshi win more then someone else needs to lose more. There's only so many matches to go around each week, and so many guys that can win from them to get exposure? How can this be complained at? |
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Jul 15, 2010 18:06:32 GMT -5
Disagreed. JTG is a prime example of a guy who is getting buried right now. Why you may ask? {Spoiler}CHAVO GUERRERO pinned him on Superstars
You know your career is looking bleak when you lose to the guy whose gimmick for awhile was that he always lost to a leprechaun. There are plenty of people that do get buried in the WWE, that's just a fact. Sure, getting buried does not mean that they are doomed to future endeavours. It does however mean that their chances of main eventing are slim to none. Just take a good look at MVP following his losing streak angle. He had tons of momentum before then and seemed primed to main event as a top heel until he got in trouble backstage and he was sent on the losing path with losses to the likes of Kung Fu Naki and KIZARNY. It's hard to recover from something like that. The only way to overcome that is to either stand out from the rest so much that they have no choice but to push you (Bourne) or to shine when you are given the chance to stand out. (Miz) Not everybody can do this though and even when they do, their pushes are usually nothing more than the usual stop and start nonsense that leaves them either no more over than they were previously, or worse even less so then they started out. It also doesn't help when the guys being pushed are put in positions where it's nearly impossible to them to succeed. Whether it be by exposing their weaknesses or hiding their strengths, either way it makes it alot more difficult for the guys to get over if they even get the chance. Really at this point everyone should be given some opportunity to get over. By that I don't mean debuting someone when they're as green as grass and expecting them to succeed. I also don't mean cutting their legs out from underneath them in the middle of their big push and killing their momentum dead. No, not every loss is an example of someone being buried. But then when that one loss leads to another, and those lead to two more, eventually the wrestler in question finds themselves waist deep in the ground. |
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Post by Lionheart on Jul 15, 2010 18:06:50 GMT -5
This what they have become, yes, which is what people object to. It's as if someone complains that their dinner is burnt and you tell them matter-of-factly that it was simply cooked too long and can't understand why they're upset. You make Yoshi win more then someone else needs to lose more. There's only so many matches to go around each week, and so many guys that can win from them to get exposure? How can this be complained at? It's not that people don't understand there are limited time and wins available, they're complaining that the wrong guys are getting the exposure and victories. And specifically, I was objecting to Matt's "State the thing people take issue with as though it's an insight" style of posting. |
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Post by BRAINFADE on Jul 15, 2010 18:12:37 GMT -5
Agreed. Just because someone is not getting the screentime they used to doesn't mean they are buried. And guys like Yoshi and Primo are glorified jobbers anyway. Agreed. I think it actually just shows the quality of the roster nowadays, compared to a few years ago. Time was that there wasn't anyone even worth a push because it just wouldn't be worth the bother. But now, there are a heck of a lot of guys that get a reaction, and then the company gets blame for 'missing the opportunity', but firstly, they create the circumstances that give them that opportunity, and secondly, there's nothing wrong with having someone like Mark Henry be over in the mid-card. It could be so easy for Henry's music to hit now and the crowd to not give a crap, but it's great to see him come out to make a run-in and have the crowd cheer for the lower-carders like they actually mean something. Not everyone can get pushed, why don't people consider this before asking why someone is lower down the card? Surely you can see if Yoshi is not winning, at least consider which other faces are getting good exposure? Exactly, it's nice to see midcard guys getting a reaction. There are only so many spots to go around, and everyone deserves to have a bit of time in the sun, even if this means the depush of guys like Morrison (and lets face it, it's not like he's getting Conway pops or anything). Besides, Morrison has been pushed numerous times, and has yet to break away from the midcard pack. Why not try something else? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2010 18:13:28 GMT -5
They're burying porn now? They hope to grow a porn tree. Post of the day. Bravo. |
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Jul 15, 2010 18:13:38 GMT -5
Disagreed. JTG is a prime example of a guy who is getting buried right now. Why you may ask? {Spoiler}CHAVO GUERRERO pinned him on Superstars
You know your career is looking bleak when you lose to the guy whose gimmick for awhile was that he always lost to a leprechaun. There are plenty of people that do get buried in the WWE, that's just a fact. Sure, getting buried does not mean that they are doomed to future endeavours. It does however mean that their chances of main eventing are slim to none. Just take a good look at MVP following his losing streak angle. He had tons of momentum before then and seemed primed to main event as a top heel until he got in trouble backstage and he was sent on the losing path with losses to the likes of Kung Fu Naki and KIZARNY. It's hard to recover from something like that. The only way to overcome that is to either stand out from the rest so much that they have no choice but to push you (Bourne) or to shine when you are given the chance to stand out. (Miz) Not everybody can do this though and even when they do, their pushes are usually nothing more than the usual stop and start nonsense that leaves them either no more over than they were previously, or worse even less so then they started out. It also doesn't help when the guys being pushed are put in positions where it's nearly impossible to them to succeed. Whether it be by exposing their weaknesses or hiding their strengths, either way it makes it alot more difficult for the guys to get over if they even get the chance. Really at this point everyone should be given some opportunity to get over. By that I don't mean debuting someone when they're as green as grass and expecting them to succeed. I also don't mean cutting their legs out from underneath them in the middle of their big push and killing their momentum dead. No, not every loss is an example of someone being buried. But then when that one loss leads to another, and those lead to two more, eventually the wrestler in question finds themselves waist deep in the ground. All of that you've just said is still just someone losing. Even over so many months, someone can be on a low spot because they've chosen to go with someone else. MVP isn't being buried, even now. You've got Christian, Kofi and Matt Hardy in the mid-card. If they weren't there then MVP would get a shot. Back when he was in his losing streak gimmick it was a storyline that was obviously going to end and could easily be recovered from. There are spots. If Chavo is below Ryder who is below Ziggler (for example) then Chavo will lose more then the other two. Ryder will lose less than Chavo but more than Ziggler. It's just business, there's just so many spots to go around. There has to be someone at the bottom. That bottom guy will always lose until it's decided that someone else should take the very bottom spot for a while. Chavo had the honour of bottom guy on Raw, and now that's Primo. And that's fine. If someone wants to disagree with someone's position on the card, then that's ok. We all have our favourites. But surely we all have enough intelligence to understand that if one guy is not winning then it means someone else is? |
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Matt Dunn
Hank Scorpio
It was inevitable.
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Post by Matt Dunn on Jul 15, 2010 18:13:54 GMT -5
You make Yoshi win more then someone else needs to lose more. There's only so many matches to go around each week, and so many guys that can win from them to get exposure? How can this be complained at? It's not that people don't understand there are limited time and wins available, they're complaining that the wrong guys are getting the exposure and victories. And specifically, I was objecting to Matt's "State the thing people take issue with as though it's an insight" style of posting. Look, there is a limited amount of time on TV. He isn't as high profile as a lot of others and will end up losing matches. If ECW was around, this wouldn't happen. That's all. Look, I'm sorry that you are a Yoshi mark and he isn't getting the airtime he used to. I'm a Christian mark and am upset he was stuck in a storyline with Vickie and Dolph Ziggler. We all have our favorites. |
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