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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Nov 2, 2010 18:55:25 GMT -5
Not to mention if you think the video game industry is already overly cautious about what it does in it's products. Just wait until the Government steps in. Everything is going to become WAY more cookie cutter than it was before. Basically imagine if the movies industry had the Government regulate all of the violent and sexual content in their films. Movies like Godfather, Taxi Driver, Untouchables, just the tip of the iceberg of films that would become something completely different, assuming they'd even be made, if the Government regulated the same thing. On top of that, this once again becomes a slippery slope discussion. If they regulate what is violent then they should be allowed to ban it. While they're banning violence in video games what's to stop them from banning violence in other forms of media. Heck once they do that what's to stop them from banning anything that could be considered offensive. Yes, this is an extremely crazy way to see it. But this is politics we're talking about here. Politicians, especially ones in power, are crazy. So you have to assume if one thing starts, it'll lead to more and more. From what I can tell, this case isn't about restricting the level of violence in video games themselves, it's about preventing children under 18 from purchasing M-rated games. Also, doesn't a sizable chunk of people who spend money on video game technology consist of young adults over the age of 18- or at least more now than ever before? It doesn't seem like good business for game developers to run away from older consumers just because a law that was barely enforced suddenly gets enforced more tightly. The average age of gamers, and this is from the whole spectrum of gamers(yes even the casuals), is in the 30s. And the thing is, the only place this has ever been a law in is California. No other state has the law that California currently has.
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Nov 2, 2010 19:04:03 GMT -5
Games should have age restrictions on them. If a game is deemed too violent for a child, then they shouldn't be able to buy it. Works for the Cinema industry, don't see any reason why it wouldn't work for the gaming industry.
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Post by DrewVonAwesome on Nov 2, 2010 19:09:55 GMT -5
Not to mention if you think the video game industry is already overly cautious about what it does in it's products. Just wait until the Government steps in. Everything is going to become WAY more cookie cutter than it was before. Basically imagine if the movies industry had the Government regulate all of the violent and sexual content in their films. Movies like Godfather, Taxi Driver, Untouchables, just the tip of the iceberg of films that would become something completely different, assuming they'd even be made, if the Government regulated the same thing. On top of that, this once again becomes a slippery slope discussion. If they regulate what is violent then they should be allowed to ban it. While they're banning violence in video games what's to stop them from banning violence in other forms of media. Heck once they do that what's to stop them from banning anything that could be considered offensive. Yes, this is an extremely crazy way to see it. But this is politics we're talking about here. Politicians, especially ones in power, are crazy. So you have to assume if one thing starts, it'll lead to more and more. From what I can tell, this case isn't about restricting the level of violence in video games themselves, it's about preventing children under 18 from purchasing M-rated games. Also, doesn't a sizable chunk of people who spend money on video game technology consist of young adults over the age of 18- or at least more now than ever before? It doesn't seem like good business for game developers to run away from older consumers just because a law that was barely enforced suddenly gets enforced more tightly. Yes but that is what came up from this. Why make a violent game if it could possibly get you into trouble though a long list of guilt by association.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Nov 2, 2010 19:13:36 GMT -5
Games should have age restrictions on them. If a game is deemed too violent for a child, then they shouldn't be able to buy it. Works for the Cinema industry, don't see any reason why it wouldn't work for the gaming industry. The games already DO have age restrictions on them, and kids CAN'T buy the M-rated games. Once again, in the US, both the video game industry and the retail industry already have this problem in check. The game industry has an age-tiered rating system: - E = Everyone, anyone of any age can buy them. - E10+ = Everyone over 10, most places let anyone buy these games, though, as they really are just E-rated games with a little darker tone or stronger cartoonish violence, in other words, still good for everyone. - T = Teen, good for anyone 13 and older. - M = Mature, only people 17 or older can buy these games. The retail industry helps by enforcing the M-rating and not allowing kids under 17 to buy these games. In other words, the game industry does what the movie industry does. E = G, E10+ = PG, T = PG-13, and M = R. Thing is, just as parents often times bring their kids to see R-rated movies, parents buy their kids the M-rated video games. It really is on the parents. The game and retail industries do everything they can to keep these games out of the hands of kids.
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Post by Orange on Nov 2, 2010 19:17:21 GMT -5
Games should have age restrictions on them. If a game is deemed too violent for a child, then they shouldn't be able to buy it. Works for the Cinema industry, don't see any reason why it wouldn't work for the gaming industry. The games already DO have age restrictions on them, and kids CAN'T buy the M-rated games. Once again, in the US, both the video game industry and the retail industry already have this problem in check. The game industry has an age-tiered rating system: - E = Everyone, anyone of any age can buy them. - E10+ = Everyone over 10, most places let anyone buy these games, though, as they really are just E-rated games with a little darker tone or stronger cartoonish violence, in other words, still good for everyone. - T = Teen, good for anyone 13 and older. - M = Mature, only people 17 or older can buy these games. The retail industry helps by enforcing the M-rating and not allowing kids under 17 to buy these games. In other words, the game industry does what the movie industry does. E = G, E10+ = PG, T = PG-13, and M = R. Thing is, just as parents often times bring their kids to see R-rated movies, parents buy their kids the M-rated video games. It really is on the parents. The game and retail industries do everything they can to keep these games out of the hands of kids. As somebody said in this thread it's just one less responsibility for parents. They want everybody else to raise their kids, it's pathetic.
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Post by DrewVonAwesome on Nov 2, 2010 19:19:01 GMT -5
Games should have age restrictions on them. If a game is deemed too violent for a child, then they shouldn't be able to buy it. Works for the Cinema industry, don't see any reason why it wouldn't work for the gaming industry. The games already DO have age restrictions on them, and kids CAN'T buy the M-rated games. Once again, in the US, both the video game industry and the retail industry already have this problem in check. The game industry has an age-tiered rating system: - E = Everyone, anyone of any age can buy them. - E10+ = Everyone over 10, most places let anyone buy these games, though, as they really are just E-rated games with a little darker tone or stronger cartoonish violence, in other words, still good for everyone. - T = Teen, good for anyone 13 and older. - M = Mature, only people 17 or older can buy these games. The retail industry helps by enforcing the M-rating and not allowing kids under 17 to buy these games. In other words, the game industry does what the movie industry does. E = G, E10+ = PG, T = PG-13, and M = R. Thing is, just as parents often times bring their kids to see R-rated movies, parents buy their kids the M-rated video games. It really is on the parents. The game and retail industries do everything they can to keep these games out of the hands of kids. The only thing the industry can do at this point, something it should do already, is try to work more with media outlets to educate parents on the labeling system and how it works. I have had so many times seen or heard a parent not have a clue about the ratings system, or worse yet get upset that they had the gull to make them go and buy the M rated game for their kids. I actually saw once a parent cuss out the guy behind the counter for not selling the M rated game to her kid. He kept saying it was because of the M rating and how the game was violent, but she was flipping her lid on him, cussing him out and calling him all these horrible things. That sums up the problem right there. Not to mention I think really this mentality too is coming from a general society standard that we HAVE to be married, and HAVE to have kids, the big white suburban home with it's white picket fence. When it's clear that so many people are unfit to even be in a marriage, let alone raise kids. It's a disgusting mentality that the only way to be a happy American is that you HAVE to do all that, even if your not fit to do any of that sort of thing. It's why so many parents are looking for the cheap exit out of responsibility. They didn't realize what they were getting into until they actually had this life that they had to micromanage on top of their own life. I'll even be the first to admit that unless I meet the absolutely perfect woman, I really would rather go marriage-less and without kids. Just living in the same house with a 3 and a 5 year old is an extremely frustrating experience. I can't imagine myself being able to really handle it when the kid is mine, and is my responsibility.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Nov 2, 2010 19:29:57 GMT -5
The games already DO have age restrictions on them, and kids CAN'T buy the M-rated games. Once again, in the US, both the video game industry and the retail industry already have this problem in check. The game industry has an age-tiered rating system: - E = Everyone, anyone of any age can buy them. - E10+ = Everyone over 10, most places let anyone buy these games, though, as they really are just E-rated games with a little darker tone or stronger cartoonish violence, in other words, still good for everyone. - T = Teen, good for anyone 13 and older. - M = Mature, only people 17 or older can buy these games. The retail industry helps by enforcing the M-rating and not allowing kids under 17 to buy these games. In other words, the game industry does what the movie industry does. E = G, E10+ = PG, T = PG-13, and M = R. Thing is, just as parents often times bring their kids to see R-rated movies, parents buy their kids the M-rated video games. It really is on the parents. The game and retail industries do everything they can to keep these games out of the hands of kids. The only thing the industry can do at this point, something it should do already, is try to work more with media outlets to educate parents on the labeling system and how it works. I have had so many times seen or heard a parent not have a clue about the ratings system, or worse yet get upset that they had the gull to make them go and buy the M rated game for their kids. I actually saw once a parent cuss out the guy behind the counter for not selling the M rated game to her kid. He kept saying it was because of the M rating and how the game was violent, but she was flipping her lid on him, cussing him out and calling him all these horrible things. That sums up the problem right there. Not to mention I think really this mentality too is coming from a general society standard that we HAVE to be married, and HAVE to have kids, the big white suburban home with it's white picket fence. When it's clear that so many people are unfit to even be in a marriage, let alone raise kids. It's a disgusting mentality that the only way to be a happy American is that you HAVE to do all that, even if your not fit to do any of that sort of thing. It's why so many parents are looking for the cheap exit out of responsibility. They didn't realize what they were getting into until they actually had this life that they had to micromanage on top of their own life. Yeah, the industry, regardless of the decision by the Supreme Court, HAS to increase the general public knowledge of the ESRB's rating system. It is painfully obvious having ads in video game magazines and having small signs in GameStops are not working. Also, I, too, am a little appalled when I see parents blindly buying M-rated games when I'm in GameStop, despite the clerks describing in FULL DETAIL all the things in the game not appropriate for kids. I am happy, though, the rare times I see a parent telling their kid to put the case back on the shelf and pick a non-M-rated game after hearing what's in the game.
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Post by DrewVonAwesome on Nov 2, 2010 19:39:40 GMT -5
One other thing I was thinking about.
By and large, what are the games that have been getting the most ad time, the biggest releases as of late.
Halo: Reach, Red Dead Redemption, Call of Duty: Black Ops.
Aside from something like Super Mario Galaxy 2, the majority of the games are M rated, so how is the general public suppose to not think all games are violent when the biggest ones are. If the industry saw games more like Okami, Monkey Island, games like that, that weren't at all about violence. However they're the games the general public knows about.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Nov 2, 2010 19:45:18 GMT -5
One other thing I was thinking about. By and large, what are the games that have been getting the most ad time, the biggest releases as of late. Halo: Reach, Red Dead Redemption, Call of Duty: Black Ops. Aside from something like Super Mario Galaxy 2, the majority of the games are M rated, so how is the general public suppose to not think all games are violent when the biggest ones are. If the industry saw games more like Okami, Monkey Island, games like that, that weren't at all about violence. However they're the games the general public knows about. Yeah, but same thing can be said about the movies. Year in and year out nearly all the best selling films have violence in them/are PG-13 or R-rated. The only exception to this are the animated films. Which can in turn be reflected as how the game industry goes. The best selling games year in and year out are M-rated shooters, except for whatever major first party games Nintendo releases that year. Really, when you break it down, the game and movie industry have a lot of parallels. The only real difference is games are interactive, that's it.
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Post by Predator McBroski on Nov 2, 2010 20:06:40 GMT -5
The games already DO have age restrictions on them, and kids CAN'T buy the M-rated games. Once again, in the US, both the video game industry and the retail industry already have this problem in check. The game industry has an age-tiered rating system: - E = Everyone, anyone of any age can buy them. - E10+ = Everyone over 10, most places let anyone buy these games, though, as they really are just E-rated games with a little darker tone or stronger cartoonish violence, in other words, still good for everyone. - T = Teen, good for anyone 13 and older. - M = Mature, only people 17 or older can buy these games. The retail industry helps by enforcing the M-rating and not allowing kids under 17 to buy these games. In other words, the game industry does what the movie industry does. E = G, E10+ = PG, T = PG-13, and M = R. Thing is, just as parents often times bring their kids to see R-rated movies, parents buy their kids the M-rated video games. It really is on the parents. The game and retail industries do everything they can to keep these games out of the hands of kids. As somebody said in this thread it's just one less responsibility for parents. They want everybody else to raise their kids, it's pathetic. Bingo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2010 20:33:37 GMT -5
Games should have age restrictions on them. If a game is deemed too violent for a child, then they shouldn't be able to buy it. Works for the Cinema industry, don't see any reason why it wouldn't work for the gaming industry. They do. The problem is that the parent buy the game for their child regardless of the rating/age restrictions, then the parent blame the game industry for them buying the game for their kid in the first place. It be like a parent buying a porno for their 10 year old son then turn around and blame the porn store/industry because they bought a porn for their kid. It just another case of stupid people not taking responsibility for their stupid action. It never their fault, it always someone else .
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Post by Baixo Astral on Nov 2, 2010 20:35:16 GMT -5
I totally get the impression that it's largely a UK vs. US crapper thing. We're used to our government getting in on the act with stuff like this, so we accept it. I don't believe that they should have the right to censor or ban movies, but I do think they should have the right to prosecute anyone renting, selling, or admitting underage people to violent movies. I think there is some content that is too much for kids, and they're going to get around their parents one way or another, either through lying, parental ignorance, or laissez faire parental behaviour. I know I did - I used to make trips to a heavy metal record shop in my hometown to buy bootlegged copies of Caligula, and Cannibal Holocaust, and sneak into 18 movies aged 14. Didn't make a difference to me, but I'll be damned if I'm going to happy if my kids get away with it. Ditto with violent games - when my kid is too young, I don't want some shifty sole trader selling them a copy of Call of Duty 15: Battle to the Centre of Christy Canyon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2010 20:46:57 GMT -5
I think you don't get it. In U.S., store I.D people when they buy R-rated movie, Unrated movies, Rated M games, Porn, and etc. to make sure their old enough to buy or go into certain place. So the problem isn't the store that selling the games but the people who BUY the game for the underage kids/teenager. I'm 21 and I get i.d. all the time when I buy stuff. Hell my dad is 48 year old and he got I.D at walmart when he was buying cigarettes for himself so there no way in hell a 13 year old kid can walk into a major store like walmart, best buy or gamestop and buy GTA 4: Hot Coffee 2 unless he has someone who is old enough to buy the game for him. The only place where you could get always with buying a M rated game is go to a second hand store like goodwill or something like that and buy it there if they had it.
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Post by Baixo Astral on Nov 2, 2010 20:57:51 GMT -5
I think you don't get it. In U.S., store I.D people when they buy R-rated movie, Unrated movies, Rated M games, Porn, and etc. to make sure their old enough to buy or go into certain place. So the problem isn't the store that selling the games but the people who BUY the game for the underage kids/teenager. I'm 21 and I get i.d. all the time when I buy stuff. Hell my dad is 48 year old and he got I.D at walmart when he was buying cigarettes for himself so there no way in hell a 13 year old kid can walk into a major store like walmart, best buy or gamestop and buy GTA 4: Hot Coffee 2 unless he has someone who is old enough to buy the game for him. The only place where you could get always with buying a M rated game is go to a second hand store like goodwill or something like that and buy it there if they had it. So what's the problem? If it doesn't happen, criminalize it anyway. If a parent buys it for the kid, the store is exempt anyway. I don't really get the problem, unless you guys are afraid that edgy and violent content will be left out of games because criminalization will make it less likely that underage kids can get games that they shouldn't get.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2010 21:19:08 GMT -5
So what's the problem? If it doesn't happen, criminalize it anyway. If a parent buys it for the kid, the store is exempt anyway. I don't really get the problem, unless you guys are afraid that edgy and violent content will be left out of games because criminalization will make it less likely that underage kids can get games that they shouldn't get. I think the problem is that the people who want this past, never play a video game before and think every game is about killing cops and f***ing hookers. One article I read, these people were trying to said that Super Mario Bros (nes) of all games was violent and on the same level as GTA, Mortal Kombat, and etc. So they really don't have a clue about video games or anything about them.
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Post by Baixo Astral on Nov 2, 2010 21:26:02 GMT -5
So what's the problem? If it doesn't happen, criminalize it anyway. If a parent buys it for the kid, the store is exempt anyway. I don't really get the problem, unless you guys are afraid that edgy and violent content will be left out of games because criminalization will make it less likely that underage kids can get games that they shouldn't get. I think the problem is that the people who want this past, never play a video game before and think every game is about killing cops and f***ing hookers. One article I read, these people were trying to said that Super Mario Bros (nes) of all games was violent and on the same level as GTA, Mortal Kombat, and etc. So they really don't have a clue about video games or anything about them. Do you have a link to that article, I'd love to read it.
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Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on Nov 2, 2010 21:36:23 GMT -5
Lame.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,965
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Nov 2, 2010 21:48:18 GMT -5
So basically it's regulating games like they do cigerettes and porno? Cause while I may not be in favor of being told what I can or cannot buy, I don't think a 12 year old should be able to buy an M rated game. That would make the ratings system pointless. The rating system was originally intended to provide parents with info on the type of content included in the game if they so desire. Nothing more. So when you were 12, you never played games that would be rated M today? My views are: if you don't want your kids playing M-rated games, don't buy it for them. But if you do buy them an M-rated game knowing of its content, that does not make you a bad parent. Every kid is different as to how what they can handle without acting on it, and neither government nor the retailers should be making moral judgments. The ratings should be recommendations for parents who want to know, but it shouldn't be such a big deal if kids do play these games, as most can tell the difference between fantasy and reality.
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Post by General Adam on Nov 2, 2010 21:53:08 GMT -5
I have been reading into this and to tell the truth it's kinda redundant. Like someone already said major stores like Gamestop, Bestbuy, and so on check ID. Hell I still get carded and I'm 22 years old. Like someone already said it's just lazy parenting.
Another thing though is that if this law pass(and I hope that it doesn't) think what will happen to stores that sell video games, this will hurt them....badly. Think about it for a moment. If you unintentionally sell a rated M game to a minor not only will you be fine a thousand bucks, you get a criminal record and possible jail time. No store is going to take that change and will stop selling those games and that will turn into poor sales.
Think of how many people pre-ordered the new COD game? It has to be in the millions or at least more then half a million. So if we times 59.99 by a million that is nearly sixty million dollars in revenue and depending how many stores have pre-order they can get good cash flow. Not only is this bad for gamers, it's bad for the video game industry, and the stores that revolve around the selling of video games.
The way I see it is that video games are the last medium left. They did the same thing with books, with comic books, with movies, with music, with television, and now video games.
And if this fails......what's next? The internet? Text books? The news?
And you know what else? There is far more problems in this country then some ten year old kid playing GTA.
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BearDogg-X
Vegeta
Still lurking in the shadows....
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Post by BearDogg-X on Nov 2, 2010 22:41:55 GMT -5
Also keep in mind that there's no laws anywhere in the US against selling a minor a R-rated movie.
From reading the tea leaves on today's SCOTUS hearing, I expect SCOTUS to rule against California.
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