Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2010 22:56:49 GMT -5
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Post by Baixo Astral on Nov 2, 2010 23:28:08 GMT -5
I have been reading into this and to tell the truth it's kinda redundant. Like someone already said major stores like Gamestop, Bestbuy, and so on check ID. Hell I still get carded and I'm 22 years old. Like someone already said it's just lazy parenting. Another thing though is that if this law pass(and I hope that it doesn't) think what will happen to stores that sell video games, this will hurt them....badly. Think about it for a moment. If you unintentionally sell a rated M game to a minor not only will you be fine a thousand bucks, you get a criminal record and possible jail time. No store is going to take that change and will stop selling those games and that will turn into poor sales. Think of how many people pre-ordered the new COD game? It has to be in the millions or at least more then half a million. So if we times 59.99 by a million that is nearly sixty million dollars in revenue and depending how many stores have pre-order they can get good cash flow. Not only is this bad for gamers, it's bad for the video game industry, and the stores that revolve around the selling of video games. The way I see it is that video games are the last medium left. They did the same thing with books, with comic books, with movies, with music, with television, and now video games. And if this fails......what's next? The internet? Text books? The news? And you know what else? There is far more problems in this country then some ten year old kid playing GTA. But I'm endlessly confused about this... if the stores already require idea for these games... and the games supposedly aren't purchased by minors... then the retailers wouldn't be at risk of prosecution. And there would be no risk of lost revenue, as these games aren't being bought by minors, obviously, as no-one will sell the games to minors. Will they?
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Post by celticjobber on Nov 3, 2010 0:58:26 GMT -5
I think you don't get it. In U.S., store I.D people when they buy R-rated movie, Unrated movies, Rated M games, Porn, and etc. to make sure their old enough to buy or go into certain place. So the problem isn't the store that selling the games but the people who BUY the game for the underage kids/teenager. So what's the problem? If it doesn't happen, criminalize it anyway. If a parent buys it for the kid, the store is exempt anyway. I don't really get the problem, unless you guys are afraid that edgy and violent content will be left out of games because criminalization will make it less likely that underage kids can get games that they shouldn't get. The problem is, if the sale of M-rated games to kids are outlawed, stores like Wal-Mart and Best Buy will likely decide it's too much trouble to even carry them. They already ban the sell of A-rated games, which is a big part of the reason none are ever made (aside from the PC market). If this law passes, there's a good chance there will be far less M-rated titles made.
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Post by Orange on Nov 3, 2010 3:37:49 GMT -5
Now forgive me if I missed this, but if this somehow ends up passing will this be California only or will this be all across the country? Either way will be bullshit, but I'm not sure how that'll work.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Nov 3, 2010 3:40:37 GMT -5
Now forgive me if I missed this, but if this somehow ends up passing will this be California only or will this be all across the country? Either way will be bulls***, but I'm not sure how that'll work. It'll only be California, where it actually is a law currently, for now. If this passes, it means the other states can pass similar things, and I'm pretty damn sure all the other states that had their attempts at making video game regulating laws get shot down will be among the first to do so.
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Post by Baixo Astral on Nov 3, 2010 5:44:39 GMT -5
So what's the problem? If it doesn't happen, criminalize it anyway. If a parent buys it for the kid, the store is exempt anyway. I don't really get the problem, unless you guys are afraid that edgy and violent content will be left out of games because criminalization will make it less likely that underage kids can get games that they shouldn't get. The problem is, if the sale of M-rated games to kids are outlawed, stores like Wal-Mart and Best Buy will likely decide it's too much trouble to even carry them. They already ban the sell of A-rated games, which is a big part of the reason none are ever made (aside from the PC market). If this law passes, there's a good chance there will be far less M-rated titles made. I expect that they also ban the counterparts of A-rated games in other media. Do Walmart and Best Buy sell hardcore porn? Porno comics? I'm guessing that's not the kind of thing they want on their shelves, so it's left to another kind of retailer, less bound by family-friendly aims and reputations. It's like NC-17 being a kiss of death for a movie - the movie would obviously be able to come out in the USA, but the market conditions would limit the outlets it would be able to be viewed in, purchased from, and publicised through. I'm guessing that a lot of kids buy inappropriate games online with their parent's cards anyway.
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Post by General Adam on Nov 3, 2010 8:08:47 GMT -5
I have been reading into this and to tell the truth it's kinda redundant. Like someone already said major stores like Gamestop, Bestbuy, and so on check ID. Hell I still get carded and I'm 22 years old. Like someone already said it's just lazy parenting. Another thing though is that if this law pass(and I hope that it doesn't) think what will happen to stores that sell video games, this will hurt them....badly. Think about it for a moment. If you unintentionally sell a rated M game to a minor not only will you be fine a thousand bucks, you get a criminal record and possible jail time. No store is going to take that change and will stop selling those games and that will turn into poor sales. Think of how many people pre-ordered the new COD game? It has to be in the millions or at least more then half a million. So if we times 59.99 by a million that is nearly sixty million dollars in revenue and depending how many stores have pre-order they can get good cash flow. Not only is this bad for gamers, it's bad for the video game industry, and the stores that revolve around the selling of video games. The way I see it is that video games are the last medium left. They did the same thing with books, with comic books, with movies, with music, with television, and now video games. And if this fails......what's next? The internet? Text books? The news? And you know what else? There is far more problems in this country then some ten year old kid playing GTA. But I'm endlessly confused about this... if the stores already require idea for these games... and the games supposedly aren't purchased by minors... then the retailers wouldn't be at risk of prosecution. And there would be no risk of lost revenue, as these games aren't being bought by minors, obviously, as no-one will sell the games to minors. Will they? If the game is going to be a best seller....they might, but who knows.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Nov 3, 2010 8:54:10 GMT -5
I think the law is stupid and a waste of time, but at the same time I don't see how it is unconstitutional. If the state can legally ban the sale of obscene movies, why not obscene games?
The SCOTUS can't overturn something for being stupid.
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BearDogg-X
Vegeta
Still lurking in the shadows....
Posts: 9,382
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Post by BearDogg-X on Nov 3, 2010 9:38:51 GMT -5
I think the law is stupid and a waste of time, but at the same time I don't see how it is unconstitutional. If the state can legally ban the sale of obscene movies, why not obscene games? The SCOTUS can't overturn something for being stupid. Obscenity is not the issue. California's law only focused on "violence", which has never been viewed as obscene to anyone. Edit: Basically California's law would have treated games rated M(and even a T rating) as if they were rated AO based on "violent" content. It is unconstitutional: -under the First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of speech and expression as California's law would be restricting speech based on the content of that speech(California's law never went into effect because of court orders blocking enforcement of it). -under the Fourteenth Amendment's guarantee of due process under the law because the law only focused on video games and not any other "violent" media like movies and books(I mentioned in a previous post that there is no law in the books anywhere in the USA against selling a R-rated or even an unrated movie to a minor).
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Post by Hassan bin Sober on Nov 3, 2010 11:27:05 GMT -5
This issue should be left up to the parent. Period. if retailers don't want to sell a game to minors then fine but the government should not dictate what a person can or cannot play.
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MolotovMocktail
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Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Nov 3, 2010 11:48:20 GMT -5
I think the law is stupid and a waste of time, but at the same time I don't see how it is unconstitutional. If the state can legally ban the sale of obscene movies, why not obscene games? The SCOTUS can't overturn something for being stupid. Something is obscene only if it deals with sexual material, not violence. The 3-part test in Miller v. California spells this out. California has tried to say that violence should be treated as obscenity in the context of video games, but so far, no court has bought that argument.
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Post by jamofpearls on Nov 3, 2010 11:49:39 GMT -5
The problem, is that this medium is that its content could in some way controlled by the government.
In the movies and music, it is not against the law to sell a child an R rated movie or ticket, just as its not against the law to sell a child Guns N Roses Appetite for Destruction. They are rules that are put in place by the MPAA, and the retail markets. Its up to the parents to decide. Take a look at the Rating for "R" R- Restricted Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian (1968-present) That doesn't say "By law a child under the age of 17 can not enter." It is up to a parent or guardian to take them to see it. Even then, its still not illegal, its up to the MPAA.
In music its "Parental Advisory" which is then left up to retailers if they want to sell to minors. Not the government.
It should not be illegal to sell games that are rated M to children. It should be a policy (like it currently is) to not sell M games to children. If a parent is OK with letting their child play GTA IV, its up to the parent. Not the government.
Letting the government control something like this, just seems like a slippery slope of what else they would be able to rule in on the media. And its not like I'm an underage kid who probably wouldn't be able to play these games. I'm about to be 32. And still with out children.
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darthalexander
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Post by darthalexander on Nov 3, 2010 11:53:50 GMT -5
I've seen parents buy their kids GTA games. One seller (EB Games) even asked the mother if she was sure and she said "yeah, I don't care".
There is so much hypocrisy here. Unbelievable. It's like Quebec politics has come to California.
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Post by Red Impact on Nov 3, 2010 14:29:45 GMT -5
The problem is, if the sale of M-rated games to kids are outlawed, stores like Wal-Mart and Best Buy will likely decide it's too much trouble to even carry them. They already ban the sell of A-rated games, which is a big part of the reason none are ever made (aside from the PC market). If this law passes, there's a good chance there will be far less M-rated titles made. I expect that they also ban the counterparts of A-rated games in other media. Do Walmart and Best Buy sell hardcore porn? Porno comics? I'm guessing that's not the kind of thing they want on their shelves, so it's left to another kind of retailer, less bound by family-friendly aims and reputations. It's like NC-17 being a kiss of death for a movie - the movie would obviously be able to come out in the USA, but the market conditions would limit the outlets it would be able to be viewed in, purchased from, and publicised through. I'm guessing that a lot of kids buy inappropriate games online with their parent's cards anyway. The M-Rating is much tamer though, which is part of the problem. Games can get that rating despite being tamer than things you might see on TV every hour of the day. Dragon Age is an M-Rated game, and "Sexual Content" is one of the reasons listed. The sexual content consists of a short cutscene of characters, still clothed (albeit in undergarments) kissing by a fire. It's nothing you couldn't see even on normal television. If it was left to other adult-oriented retailers, it'd probably kill store sales, because I doubt people really want to go into an adult bookstore to buy Prototype or Call of Duty, if there are even such places nearby (I, for one, know that I've never seen one with my state's borders). If this happened and stores like Wal-Mart or Best Buy figured it wasn't worth the risk because a lazy cashier didn't check an ID, it'd probably kill the FPS genre dead. Nearly all of those games, from Halo to Team Fortress 2 to Call of Duty, are M-Rated. Games like Dragon Age or the new NFL Blitz are also rated M. It's not like you have to be pornographic to get that rating, and whether or not a game gets that random is highly subjective.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2010 17:51:13 GMT -5
isn't this kinda political...
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Nov 3, 2010 18:03:45 GMT -5
It's not really political-we are not discussing individual candidates or parties. And regardless of how you feel about kids playing violent games, the consensus is pretty much the same about legislation not being the answer.
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Beast Army Ass
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Post by Beast Army Ass on Nov 3, 2010 19:06:42 GMT -5
Think of it this way, if it was political, wouldn't the thread have been locked by now? Instead of mods commenting on it just as much as regular joes? For me, the sticking point is that the video game media is being singled out here. Sheesh, you'd think video games slept with their mamas when they were a kid or something... I'm just gonna leave this here (language warning and posting the URL since the title has a naughty word in it): www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oA9IUPTjLI
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Franchise
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Post by Franchise on Nov 3, 2010 20:30:57 GMT -5
Think of it this way, if it was political, wouldn't the thread have been locked by now? Instead of mods commenting on it just as much as regular joes? For me, the sticking point is that the video game media is being singled out here. Sheesh, you'd think video games slept with their mamas when they were a kid or something... I'm just gonna leave this here (language warning and posting the URL since the title has a naughty word in it): www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oA9IUPTjLIThank you for posting this! I remember watching this and agreeing 100% with it.
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Post by Predator McBroski on Nov 3, 2010 20:36:27 GMT -5
I've seen parents buy their kids GTA games. One seller (EB Games) even asked the mother if she was sure and she said "yeah, I don't care". There is so much hypocrisy here. Unbelievable. It's like Quebec politics has come to California. Yep, I have a six- year old cousin whose mother bought him every GTA, and he played the "Coffee Scene" numerous times.
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