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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 28, 2011 12:15:23 GMT -5
Well, here's a really creepy article from Newsweek: www.newsweek.com/2009/03/29/generation-diva.htmlThe gist of it is, the modern world of reality shows concerning youth beauty pageants, older women seeking surgery to remain sexually attractive, and endless bombardments of messages emphasizing "the ideal" (whatever that means) for women is really taking a toll on and shaping the perceptions of young women today...as young as 6 years old. Part of it, I'm sure, is that a lot of these messages are now reaching places like the Midwest and mountain states in America, whereas before the Internet and widespread cable TV, they didn't get anywhere near as far. That said, to me, it's textbook corporate thinking: attack a girl's self esteem while she's still young, and she'll buy an endless stream of beauty supplies for years and years and years. She'll get elective surgery, buy countless creams, etc. One number in the article says that a lifetime of manicures and pedicures could pay for four years of college tuition. I'm interested in how this effects men, as well: not how women feeling that way would effect men, but how TV shows and ads use self esteem as a way to get guys to buy into potentially harmful things. I know there's the classic "drink this beer, women will sleep with you!" or "use this body spray, women will sleep with you!" technique, but are there others that go deeper or cut a little closer to home than just appealing to our desire to sleep with women? Either way, I find sociological stories like these fascinating, thought I'd share.
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Jan 28, 2011 12:41:58 GMT -5
Its incredible stuff really. Companies are basically telling people theyre ugly, and without their products, they will always be ugly.
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biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
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Post by biafra on Jan 28, 2011 12:54:08 GMT -5
Reminds me on some of the lyrics to Dead Kennedy's "Trust Your Mechanic."
Disturbing.
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mattperiolat
King Koopa
Thank you, Brodie... for everything.
Posts: 11,445
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Post by mattperiolat on Jan 28, 2011 12:56:50 GMT -5
*sighs* WHat is wrong with a culture that tells a girl:
- You must have a boyfriend by age 13 and putting out by 14 or you are not "cool."
- If you have slept with two guys by age 15, you're the town slut.
- If you are not a perfect C cup by 14, get an upgrade.
- If you are not married after graduation, don't bother, it will never happen.
- If you do not have a kid by age 21, you're missing this season's latest fashion accessory.
Mankind, you make me want to vomit.
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biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
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Post by biafra on Jan 28, 2011 12:59:21 GMT -5
It is a society which condemns child sexual predators as the worst scum yet a segment of it encourages young children to dress and act like whores.
Although, to the bulk of societies credit I think a vast majority think the whole juvenile beauty pageant thing is disgusting. It's the few moms and dads who want to live vicariously through their children because they couldn't make anything out of themselves that support it.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 28, 2011 13:16:13 GMT -5
The part, again, that I sincerely wonder about is how they deal with self esteem on a gender basis.
Like I said, guys get the whole "do this and you'll get laid!" angle, but it feels like ad companies and shows try to cut deeper into women's insecurities, on a much more dangerous level.
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Post by Alex Shelley on Jan 28, 2011 14:47:12 GMT -5
It's really scary. I've personally never been affected by this (although having gender issues gives me a whole different set of problems lol), but I've seen countless friends fall to it. One of my dearest friends has weight problems - she has a history of anorexia and obsessively counts calories because if she gets over a certain weight she'll panic.
One thing I have never really condemned is plastic surgery, but I don't think it's a decision that should be made lightly and it DEFINITELY isn't a decision that should be made prior to 18 years old. If a body part is giving you dysphoria problems, I see no reason why you shouldn't change it if you have the funds to do so and have clearly thought the issue through with a therapist.
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Post by Orange on Jan 28, 2011 15:06:04 GMT -5
We live in a weird society man, and sadly beauty products will always use advertising to prey on girls (and men too for that matter) with low self esteem. You're ugly if you don't buy our makeup kit, you're just awful if you're not a 34DD, it's sad but that's how these companies make their money. It's not fair and it's not right, but it's the nature of the beast.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,574
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Post by Bo Rida on Jan 28, 2011 17:51:15 GMT -5
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Post by Macho Dude Handy Damage on Jan 28, 2011 19:20:19 GMT -5
In a few years I'm sure there will be like a counter culture to this. You can sorta start to see it in regards to how people raise their children, where people getting kids today are more willing to let children be children and play and risk hurting themselves, rather than being overprotective and having all sorts of regulations and stuff about kids playgrounds.
At least we starting to see the seeds of that here in Norway.
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crash1984
Unicron
Scavenger Hunt All-Star
You don't need pants for the victory dance
Posts: 3,039
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Post by crash1984 on Jan 28, 2011 20:06:13 GMT -5
I love a good sociology discussion every now and then
I remember when I took sociology this topic came up. Females have a natural instinct that they want to look good. Furthermore I have nothing against young girls trying to look pretty as long as it suits their age. The problem is that now they are not trying to look like pretty girls anymore but "pretty" teenagers and "pretty" women. No 7 or 8 year old should be worrying about their weight or putting on make-up. As far as the weight part goes there is a growing trend of young girls having anorexia and bulimia. When I say young girls I am talking about 7 and 8 year olds.
Someone brought up plastic surgery and I agree that no one under 18 needs plastic surgery in order to look pretty. I am not going to say that no one under 18 needs plastic surgery because there are times when plastic surgery is needed (such as after an accident) and I have no problems with that. However why a 14 year old girl needs breast implants is beyond me. If I had a daughter who was 14 and her breasts had not grown any I would take her to the doctor to make sure she was okay. But if I had a 14 year old who said she wanted implants because her breasts were not big enough I would say no.
Even girls fashion at a very early age has gotten very revealing. I was at Six Flags over Georgia a few years back and there was a girl had on a shirt that showed her mid-riff and very short shorts. She looked like she was about 7 years old at most. I have a friend who has two daughters who are nearly grown now. When they were a lot younger though he would sometimes talk about the trouble he would have finding them modest shorts to wear. Finally he started getting their shorts from the boys department. Again this was before they were even teenagers. My question about the clothing being revealing at such a young age is this. What is the purpose other than society says that is the way it has to be? Most young girls can not stand boys so it certainly is not to attract boys. Then most boys that age can not stand girls so even if they were trying to attract someone their age it would not work The only ones it will attract are pedophiles which is a huge problem in our society.
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Post by shadowforce420 on Jan 28, 2011 20:17:55 GMT -5
As someone with a 1 year old niece and alot of little cousins I hate this trend and wish it would go away. I know it's not the popular thing but I wish alot of these people would be happy with how they look. People should stop caring about what's hot at the moment and just be themselves.
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Post by Alex Shelley on Jan 28, 2011 22:32:00 GMT -5
"It's not that women haven't always been slaves to their appearance; as Yeats wrote, "To be born woman is to know … that we must labour to be beautiful.""
Bleh, I call bullshit on that.
I'm 20 years old. Physically, I am female. I'm a mildly attractive person. I don't wear makeup, I don't shave my legs, I put in zero labor into looking decent aside from taking a shower and having a haircut that looks nice on its own. People are attracted to me. I'm not super sexy or anything but people like me for my PERSONALITY. I'm short and kinda chubby and frumpy and hey, people like me because I know who I am and I'm comfortable with who I am.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Jan 28, 2011 22:42:49 GMT -5
People are attracted to me. I don't believe that for a second.
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Jan 28, 2011 22:44:24 GMT -5
My ex-girlfriend yelled at me once because I turned on South Park when her 12yo sister was in the room. Then we proceeded to watch some reality tv show that glorified casual sex and held image on a pedestal. I stand by my statement that she'd benefit more from watching South Park.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Jan 28, 2011 22:59:57 GMT -5
It seems to me that this is one (very critical) part of a larger issue of how our society is increasingly intertwining technology and the body. Surgery seems an extreme instance (though not perhaps as much to me as others, having been born with a cleft lip/palate and other medical conditions that have led to me having some 30+ surgeries by the time I was 22, many of which could certainly be considered "cosmetic"), but it's also at work in how we produce/consume food, the medications we take and in how we communicate with each other.
I believe that developments in technology and changes in society to accommodate and exploit these developments have far outpaced our long-term considerations for the impact this has on the world around us, and especially on the younger generations (born around 2000) who will only know a world that the children of three generations prior couldn't have possibly imagined.
As someone who has undergone a lot of surgery as a child, I think that I feel more ambivalent toward this than many, though I feel comfortable with the stance that cosmetic surgery should in most cases not be an option until one reaches the age of consent, I ultimately feel that it's a decision for the child, their parents, and the surgeon to decide.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 29, 2011 0:49:26 GMT -5
Yeah, the surgery aspect isn't really what grabs my attention; it's the enormous focus placed on beauty standards even by small children.
There's plenty of places for surgery, cosmetic and otherwise, in society, so I'm not about to knock that, but when an otherwise healthy, non-afflicted young person is going under the knife for purely superficial reasons, there's something odd about that.
Again, though, that's not the crux of the issue: the crux is that the increasing market for children's beauty products just seems another step in many corporations' (and largely ad groups) desire to tear women's self images to shreds.
I was having a discussion with a buddy earlier today about how, in a very general sense, women seem much less "satisfied" with situations in their lives than men (wish I had studies to back that up, so I admit I'm just going by experience here). Women, again, as a generality, seem to have the greater desire to leave their home towns behind, seek out more seemingly interesting places to live, to attain more things, while guys are often a bit more comfortable in their situations in life.
I think the constant bombardment of attacks on women's self images plays into this. Like I said, I think the pressures placed on women by ads, by TV shows, by tons of different things, help nurture this mindset that things are never really "right".
Of course, I need some money to start thoroughly researching that hypothesis, if anybody'd like to fund it, of course.
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Post by Alex Shelley on Jan 29, 2011 1:05:00 GMT -5
It really is amazing what women go through from everything around them. I feel like I'm sort of in an interesting place - I'm an "insider", in that I've lived 20 years as a female, but at the same time feel like an outsider because it simply doesn't affect me (at least, not in ways I'm aware of - I'm sure that there are still parts of me that are impacted by it). It simply amazes me that women feel that they have to rely on beauty products in order to be attractive to society. But I understand how it can happen. Women aren't allowed to feel attractive, they're not allowed to feel like they're already fine as it is.
Even here, on this site I see a lot of negativity. Divas are heavily criticized by men for small flaws. I've seen plenty of the Divas accused of having "man faces" or mocked/called ugly for reasons that I consider ridiculous. How do the female members of this site feel affected by people picking apart the Divas by appearance? I've heard from at least one female friend of mine, who used to be a member of this site and left because of issues like this, that she was afraid to post a picture here because of the way she'd seen people making comments about women. This woman is, by physical standards, gorgeous, but she didn't want to put her image out here.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Jan 29, 2011 1:10:29 GMT -5
It really is amazing what women go through from everything around them. I feel like I'm sort of in an interesting place - I'm an "insider", in that I've lived 20 years as a female, but at the same time feel like an outsider because it simply doesn't affect me (at least, not in ways I'm aware of - I'm sure that there are still parts of me that are impacted by it). It simply amazes me that women feel that they have to rely on beauty products in order to be attractive to society. But I understand how it can happen. Women aren't allowed to feel attractive, they're not allowed to feel like they're already fine as it is. Even here, on this site I see a lot of negativity. Divas are heavily criticized by men for small flaws. I've seen plenty of the Divas accused of having "man faces" or mocked/called ugly for reasons that I consider ridiculous. How do the female members of this site feel affected by people picking apart the Divas by appearance? I've heard from at least one female friend of mine, who used to be a member of this site and left because of issues like this, that she was afraid to post a picture here because of the way she'd seen people making comments about women. This woman is, by physical standards, gorgeous, but she didn't want to put her image out here. Not so much the comments, but I can't tolerate being here for more than about 5 minutes if I'm not logged in with sigs turned off. Looking at 75% of signatures just depresses the hell out of me because I can't help comparing myself to them. And I would never post my picture here either, probably for similar reasons.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Jan 29, 2011 1:17:43 GMT -5
It really is amazing what women go through from everything around them. I feel like I'm sort of in an interesting place - I'm an "insider", in that I've lived 20 years as a female, but at the same time feel like an outsider because it simply doesn't affect me (at least, not in ways I'm aware of - I'm sure that there are still parts of me that are impacted by it). It simply amazes me that women feel that they have to rely on beauty products in order to be attractive to society. But I understand how it can happen. Women aren't allowed to feel attractive, they're not allowed to feel like they're already fine as it is. Even here, on this site I see a lot of negativity. Divas are heavily criticized by men for small flaws. I've seen plenty of the Divas accused of having "man faces" or mocked/called ugly for reasons that I consider ridiculous. How do the female members of this site feel affected by people picking apart the Divas by appearance? I've heard from at least one female friend of mine, who used to be a member of this site and left because of issues like this, that she was afraid to post a picture here because of the way she'd seen people making comments about women. This woman is, by physical standards, gorgeous, but she didn't want to put her image out here. I actually feel kind of bad about this because many times I've commented on females pictures before telling them that they're pretty and what not. I never meant to objectify anyone.
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