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Post by MiLo Duck on Jan 25, 2011 12:12:16 GMT -5
I just can't care anymore. I stopped investing any care in comics anymore for just this reason. He dies and we all know he'll be back and eventually it will be written like it never happened or it is a joke.
Take Hal Jordan (please). His descent into madness and death was meaningful. It showed what happens when to a hero, like most in the DCU, that choose one city to champion and invest most if not all their time and care to that city and it is snuffed out in an instant. His mental breakdown was understandable. His inability to come to grips with things and it driving him over the edge was powerful. Then all the stuff with Kyle, John, Guy, and everything that went on was so good. It dealt with a very three dimensional person being thrust into a fantastic situation and several veterans of that situation providing whatever help and advice they could.
All of this built on itself and was providing some rich characters and continuity. Then they crapped on it all, said Hal was alive and only did all that cause he was controlled by a ghost in his ring and everyone basically just hugged him and forgot all the UNIVERSE THREATENING stuff he did. Not to mention Kyle got demoted to nameless background Lantern with black hair.
So basically nothing actually happened. I followed a title for almost fifteen years all things concidered and we are back to square one? OK throw in the rainbow lanterns to try to make me forget about it. I'd bite if I didn't know for a fact that in another ten years they'll unwrite anything meaningful about that as well.
I want Bruce to stay gone. I want the next Captain America to stay the next Captain America. I want those lists of those lost to stay solid. It means nothing when they yo-yo back and forth to life and death. Essentially I want change to mean something. Without it I just lost pretty much all interest in mainstream comics. I love the characters, but have come to feel the stories are just pointless upon pointless.
So later Torch, may they ALWAYS regret your loss.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 25, 2011 12:23:53 GMT -5
WHY?! I hate superhero deaths/Rebirths more than anything else in Comics x I don't get the 'down with return to life' attitude of comic-book readers. Why? Because this isn't a singular story, or a centralised narrative. It's ongoing. Some titles over sixty years strong. With dozens and dozens of writers. Focused on individuals who can do amazing things. When a character dies it's sad because their heroism means they go out in a blaze of glory... but at the same time, their return is important because it's something unattainable in the real world. In a comic-book, people come back from the dead. I just... I find that oddly comforting. And I say that as someone who's seen people I love die, and would - if I had the power - have gone to Hell and back to stop that from happening. The main characters in comic-books have that power. Personally, I'd be disappointed if they didn't use it and accepted death as readily as we did. Real life is full of heartbreak and the sad nature of death: comic-books using escapism and retcons just makes me smile. I'd venture to say it's because in many ways it's always the SAME story with the whole death of character thing. Any of the emotional beats of the death or joy of the return ring hollow because you know it's coming. Especially in a scenario like this where it was promoted 'someone will die!' months ahead of time-- it comes across as the exact stunt that it is rather than happening organically as part of the story. It's tough to get into what the characters are going through with something so obviously editorially and sales driven.
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Post by B'Cup x on Jan 25, 2011 12:27:57 GMT -5
WHY?! I hate superhero deaths/Rebirths more than anything else in Comics x I don't get the 'down with return to life' attitude of comic-book readers. Why? Because this isn't a singular story, or a centralised narrative. It's ongoing. Some titles over sixty years strong. With dozens and dozens of writers. Focused on individuals who can do amazing things. When a character dies it's sad because their heroism means they go out in a blaze of glory... but at the same time, their return is important because it's something unattainable in the real world. In a comic-book, people come back from the dead. I just... I find that oddly comforting. And I say that as someone who's seen people I love die, and would - if I had the power - have gone to Hell and back to stop that from happening. The main characters in comic-books have that power. Personally, I'd be disappointed if they didn't use it and accepted death as readily as we did. Real life is full of heartbreak and the sad nature of death: comic-books using escapism and retcons just makes me smile. To use a wrestling analogy, its like the piledriver. Back in the attitude, everyone and his dog did a variation of it, and what is meant to be one of the biggest moves in the business, became a transistion move. Now that its pretty much been outlawed, It can end matches and gets a huge pop when it is busted out by anyone other than taker or Kane (the last time i remember it being done was by HBK in 2007). Now deaths in comics mean f*** all. Yeah torch is dead, but why invest any emotion into his passing as we know he will be coming back soon. If you want something shocking, or want to take a superhero out for sometime treat it like the BANE/BATMAN scenario, Seriously injure them. Even if every six months someone gets seriously injured and comes back, whilst it will be watered down, there would still be one step greater than an injury. Death would mean more and it would actually create buys. Thats not to say that storylines that culminate in Death cant be awesome, for a recent example Blue beetles demise in Countdown... was very well handled, even if he will be coming back shortly x
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Post by jamofpearls on Jan 25, 2011 12:28:08 GMT -5
I just can't care anymore. I stopped investing any care in comics anymore for just this reason. He dies and we all know he'll be back and eventually it will be written like it never happened or it is a joke. Take Hal Jordan (please). His descent into madness and death was meaningful. It showed what happens when to a hero, like most in the DCU, that choose one city to champion and invest most if not all their time and care to that city and it is snuffed out in an instant. His mental breakdown was understandable. His inability to come to grips with things and it driving him over the edge was powerful. Then all the stuff with Kyle, John, Guy, and everything that went on was so good. It dealt with a very three dimensional person being thrust into a fantastic situation and several veterans of that situation providing whatever help and advice they could. All of this built on itself and was providing some rich characters and continuity. Then they crapped on it all, said Hal was alive and only did all that cause he was controlled by a ghost in his ring and everyone basically just hugged him and forgot all the UNIVERSE THREATENING stuff he did. Not to mention Kyle got demoted to nameless background Lantern with black hair. So basically nothing actually happened. I followed a title for almost fifteen years all things concidered and we are back to square one? OK throw in the rainbow lanterns to try to make me forget about it. I'd bite if I didn't know for a fact that in another ten years they'll unwrite anything meaningful about that as well. I want Bruce to stay gone. I want the next Captain America to stay the next Captain America. I want those lists of those lost to stay solid. It means nothing when they yo-yo back and forth to life and death. Essentially I want change to mean something. Without it I just lost pretty much all interest in mainstream comics. I love the characters, but have come to feel the stories are just pointless upon pointless. So later Torch, may they ALWAYS regret your loss. You would probably like the Elseworlds Worlds Greatest: Generations. Shows Batman and Superman starting out in the 30s or 40s. Characters die and evolve. Very cool stuff going on.
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Efren
Dennis Stamp
?Andale! ?Andale!
Posts: 3,674
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Post by Efren on Jan 25, 2011 12:56:24 GMT -5
I understand the need to bring the main characters back to life after they pull this stuff, but when they cant even let Aunt May stay dead it becomes so meaningless, just let staple but secondary characters die for good when you decide to kill em.
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TheDieselTrain
Fry's dog Seymour
Chicks Dig Hootie.
Is Stone Cold gonna have to smack a bitch?? WHAT!!!?????
Posts: 23,724
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Post by TheDieselTrain on Jan 25, 2011 13:05:11 GMT -5
Wow. . .I didn't know Nightcrawler had died. I always liked him Not fuzzy elf!!!!! Time to wikipedia the details........ Any chance of knowing how the death happened? Did a supervillain get the kudos or was it a self sacrifice dealy? {Spoiler}The tragic saga of “Three” has come to an end in the pages of FANTASTIC FOUR #587—and The Human Torch has fallen. John Storm sacrificed himself so that his niece and nephew as well as his best friend, The Thing, could escape the Negative Zone. {Spoiler} Now i'm behind on my comics and all but cant you just like get stuck in the negative zone? Or is it killer now & one can survive in it if they are human? I bet he somehow escapes and that is how he returns
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 25, 2011 13:15:21 GMT -5
WHY?! I hate superhero deaths/Rebirths more than anything else in Comics x I don't get the 'down with return to life' attitude of comic-book readers. Why? Because this isn't a singular story, or a centralised narrative. It's ongoing. Some titles over sixty years strong. With dozens and dozens of writers. Focused on individuals who can do amazing things. When a character dies it's sad because their heroism means they go out in a blaze of glory... but at the same time, their return is important because it's something unattainable in the real world. In a comic-book, people come back from the dead. I just... I find that oddly comforting. And I say that as someone who's seen people I love die, and would - if I had the power - have gone to Hell and back to stop that from happening. The main characters in comic-books have that power. Personally, I'd be disappointed if they didn't use it and accepted death as readily as we did. Real life is full of heartbreak and the sad nature of death: comic-books using escapism and retcons just makes me smile. Is the heroic death really that meaningful anymore though? I mean, when you see it so often and see that emotion written off by another writer because of convenience, doesn't it make it harder to care about it in the future? I could understand it being comforting that they get to come back, but doesn't that hurt the suspense of the story when you know that certain characters really are just "too big to die." Wouldn't it make The Executioner's death scene mean less if he was back a month later as a villain? I mean, I can buy Jason Todd and Bucky. They were dead a long, long time in comic book terms. But apart from that, constant deaths and regenerations of major heroes really can hurt someone's ability to get into a story. The other problem is that the only people who ever get to use that escapism are the major heroes. Supporting characters are regularly offed with little build up or sense to it. They're the ones who fill out the world they're in, but they almost never come back. We so often see them get slaughtered meaninglessly so the main character can brood for a few panels then forget about it a few months later. I'd sort of argue that that's even worse.
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stonecoldswatch
AC Slater
Austin 25:17 says I will strike down upon your ass with great vengeance and furious anger!
Posts: 147
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Post by stonecoldswatch on Jan 25, 2011 13:20:08 GMT -5
It should have been his sister
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Jan 25, 2011 13:20:55 GMT -5
I'm sure he went down... ...in a blaze of glory.
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Jan 25, 2011 13:30:31 GMT -5
So the Epic return of the Amazing BagMan to the FF is coming soon?
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ronin705
Dennis Stamp
All Might
Posts: 4,277
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Post by ronin705 on Jan 25, 2011 14:55:02 GMT -5
I just can't care anymore. I stopped investing any care in comics anymore for just this reason. He dies and we all know he'll be back and eventually it will be written like it never happened or it is a joke. Take Hal Jordan (please). His descent into madness and death was meaningful. It showed what happens when to a hero, like most in the DCU, that choose one city to champion and invest most if not all their time and care to that city and it is snuffed out in an instant. His mental breakdown was understandable. His inability to come to grips with things and it driving him over the edge was powerful. Then all the stuff with Kyle, John, Guy, and everything that went on was so good. It dealt with a very three dimensional person being thrust into a fantastic situation and several veterans of that situation providing whatever help and advice they could. All of this built on itself and was providing some rich characters and continuity. Then they crapped on it all, said Hal was alive and only did all that cause he was controlled by a ghost in his ring and everyone basically just hugged him and forgot all the UNIVERSE THREATENING stuff he did. Not to mention Kyle got demoted to nameless background Lantern with black hair. So basically nothing actually happened. I followed a title for almost fifteen years all things concidered and we are back to square one? OK throw in the rainbow lanterns to try to make me forget about it. I'd bite if I didn't know for a fact that in another ten years they'll unwrite anything meaningful about that as well. I want Bruce to stay gone. I want the next Captain America to stay the next Captain America. I want those lists of those lost to stay solid. It means nothing when they yo-yo back and forth to life and death. Essentially I want change to mean something. Without it I just lost pretty much all interest in mainstream comics. I love the characters, but have come to feel the stories are just pointless upon pointless. So later Torch, may they ALWAYS regret your loss. thank god for great fans such as yourself, good sir. RIP Torch, cant wait to see how Spidey will react
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 25, 2011 14:56:23 GMT -5
This kind of stuff really irritates me. There are some characters who should never be killed off (i.e. the most popular character in a book). Honestly though, I'm guessing they're doing this because of the rights to the name "Human Torch" being in question during the Kirby estate lawsuit.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jan 25, 2011 15:13:25 GMT -5
If he joins and that isnt just a cover for cash in value costume, I drop the book. Don't care that Hickman has made the FF more interesting than they have been in a long time, if that character was to join up I would be out. Like Wolverine, I just cant stand seeing him anymore. {Spoiler} Dear god that looks bad....
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Post by hossfan on Jan 25, 2011 16:41:02 GMT -5
So they killed off the most inconsequential member of the team. Shocking!
How many issues did it take for Reed to come back from the dead in the 90s era FF?
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TheDieselTrain
Fry's dog Seymour
Chicks Dig Hootie.
Is Stone Cold gonna have to smack a bitch?? WHAT!!!?????
Posts: 23,724
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Post by TheDieselTrain on Jan 25, 2011 16:44:56 GMT -5
So the Epic return of the Amazing BagMan to the FF is coming soon? Any relation to the Bombastic Bagman??
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
Member of The Bluetista Buyers Club
Posts: 18,221
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Jan 25, 2011 16:57:42 GMT -5
Wow. . .I didn't know Nightcrawler had died. I always liked him Not fuzzy elf!!!!! Time to wikipedia the details........ {Spoiler}The tragic saga of “Three” has come to an end in the pages of FANTASTIC FOUR #587—and The Human Torch has fallen. John Storm sacrificed himself so that his niece and nephew as well as his best friend, The Thing, could escape the Negative Zone. {Spoiler} Now i'm behind on my comics and all but cant you just like get stuck in the negative zone? Or is it killer now & one can survive in it if they are human? I bet he somehow escapes and that is how he returns [/quote] Damned good issue by the way, Hickman and Epting are a damned amazing team. My comics guy said today that the book has been canceled as well, with an expected relaunch. Also, I do hope Spidey really joins the team, the Four has always been a better fit for him than the Avengers. He is a family oriented guy, he looks up to read, has the hots for Sue but respects her, the Thing, well that is his Uncle Ben, and he and Johnny were like brothers. Hell, the Parker clan spent Christmases at the Baxter building. He has always fit in there. Plus May can live with them and take care of the kids. All, like, 10 of them living there now.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Jan 25, 2011 17:06:56 GMT -5
"This is all Richards' fault!! I...oh, wait."
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 25, 2011 17:27:55 GMT -5
This kind of stuff really irritates me. There are some characters who should never be killed off (i.e. the most popular character in a book). Honestly though, I'm guessing they're doing this because of the rights to the name "Human Torch" being in question during the Kirby estate lawsuit. Kirby's estate won't have anything to go there I wouldn't think seeing as Carl Burgos created the Human Torch.. original version anyway.
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Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
Posts: 31,784
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Post by Yami Daimao on Jan 25, 2011 17:29:12 GMT -5
He'll be back. He's the most popular member of the FF, this is just something for shock value. cotdammit, i wanted reed to die soooo bad. It would definitely have a bigger effect on the Marvel Universe than Human torch's would. All we'll get from that, is an emo spiderman You shall wish no ill will on your friend & mine Reed Richards! You know, if I didn't know that was his middle finger...
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 25, 2011 17:29:15 GMT -5
So they killed off the most inconsequential member of the team. Shocking! How many issues did it take for Reed to come back from the dead in the 90s era FF? It was around two years, give or take. Say eighteen months or so. All things considered, not too bad a time.
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