ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Jan 4, 2011 12:58:19 GMT -5
It ain't over until it's over and the only person who should have any need of a report card on Hogan and Bischoff and their impact on TNA is Dixie Carter.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 4, 2011 13:00:04 GMT -5
The way Russo was taking the company from mid 09 when Dutch left until HogSchoff arrived was one of my favorite TNA periods. For all the crap Russo gets he was doing some good things. Can you imagine an AJ/Joe/Daniels match being the main focus of a PPV under HogSchoff? I can't. Production quality may have risen but booking has not. HIRE RUSSO He's still the head booker. Anyway, they helped, well, let's be honest. I do bash Russo from time to time, but the build up to Hogan coming in was well done. You can't take that away from them. The first hour did very well, though it did include the Steel Asylum match which only got us a great ending to a Botchamania. Up against Raw, they didn't do too badly, in all honesty. They did mostly 1.2 as their low if I remember correctly, so they managed to maintain their core audience against WWE. WWE also did well on that night, showing that TNA at least has their own audience. You can put on a show that can deliever ratings, but the problem is following up on it. If a promoter has a wrestling show, and they have 200 people attend, but then next month, they have 80, how good was that show that had 200 people. Chikara is a good example. Their 2009 year end show was so good, that they did gangbusters for their first show of 2010. The ratings started to slip, and the Monday night move, people think WWE did them in. But, as we see what happened on Jan. 4th, TNA's viewership was pretty normal for the most part. And, I don't remember WWE doing mega ratings back then either, in fact, they're down from 2009. So, what was causing TNA to get those really low ratings? TNA. It's TNA's fault that they got low ratings. TNA are delusional. They keep trying the same things, thinking that they will help get bigger. Bring in the big superstar from WWE. But, it hasn't helped, at least when gaining viewership. Nobody that TNA brought in made a big difference. What it's been about is how they've been presented on television. So, it's not really the fault of the guys that were paid big money, it's the fault of the people booking the show. January 4th will now forever be a date known in wrestling. The date that will live in infamy. Kinda like May 19th. It's the day TNA jumped the shark, and they didn't even have Shark Boy on tv with them.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Jan 4, 2011 13:11:18 GMT -5
...since Hogan and Bischoff came to TNA. So was it worth it for TNA to hired them? IMHO no, that is all.
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Post by poi zen rana on Jan 4, 2011 13:12:51 GMT -5
He's still the head booker. But the direction he was taking the company did a 180 when HogSchoff appeared, which makes it pretty clear to me that, as Bischoff claimed, he was given some creative power. Head booker title or not it seems to me quite clear there was a huge change in the booking process from when it was Russo until he was joined by HogSchoff. Even if Russo is still the final say for all creative decisions, I enjoyed his booking before he had to shoe horn in many wrestlers and personalities I don't care for.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2011 13:22:45 GMT -5
As a brand, they have got more attention since, but additions like Jeff Hardy(aside from a few good matches with Angle has done nothing, and should not be World Champion), Nasty Boys, Syxx Pac, Scott Hall, Bubba the Love Sponge, and eventually Matt Hardy have added nothing to the company. At least Ric Flair helped put over young talent, none of those names did that in any way. Complete waste of money. Absolutely. And, the guys they did have or brought in beforehand? Well, they turned Abyss from "the monster" that he was to a goof following Hulk Hogan around. And, what of Desmond Wolfe? The man that they built by putting him in a top notch feud with Kurt Angle right when he showed up? Throw him in a stupid pit caused by a Black Hole Slam. On the bright side, the partnering with Brutus Magnus was nice, but not where he should be. Add to the fact that the Knockouts division became a bad clone of the WWE Divas division when emphasis was put more on the Beautiful People instead of Awesome Kong or Tara, and they debuted Orlando Jordan as a freakshow. So, no, the bringing in of Hogan and Bischoff didn't help at all, plus we had to deal with garbage like the Nasty Boys and... Bubba the Love Sponge.
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Post by poi zen rana on Jan 4, 2011 13:44:40 GMT -5
To further defend my HIRE RUSSO comment I decided to analyze the ppv cards of TNA.
July 2009- Victory Road Main Event - Kurt Angle defeats Foley
---------------DUTCH LEAVES TNA----------------
August 2009 - Hard Justice Main Event - Kurt Angle defeats Sting and Morgan
September 2009 - No Surrender Main Event - AJ defeats Kurt, Hernandez, Morgan, and Sting
October 2009 - Bound For Glory Main Event - AJ defeats Sting
November 2009 - Turning Point Main Event - AJ defeats Daniels and Joe
December 2009 - Final Resolution Main Event - AJ defeats Daniels
----------------HOGAN and BISCHOFF arrive --------------
January 2010 - Genesis Main Event - AJ defeats Kurt
Then we get an influx of Nasty Boyism, Love Spongeism, and Hogan Bischoff and Flair being center stage. True Russo may have been holding the title of head booker in 2010, but it is pretty obvious the creative direction went in a completely different way once HogSchoff arrived. I don't think it was coincidental.
For all the complaints about TNA never concentrating on young/homegrown talent, it amazes me that the person who did just that, Russo, is still hated more than any other.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2011 14:28:22 GMT -5
It ain't over until it's over and the only person who should have any need of a report card on Hogan and Bischoff and their impact on TNA is Dixie Carter. Or the people who paid for the PPV's, house show tickets and watched their television program.
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bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 78,662
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Post by bob on Jan 4, 2011 14:41:18 GMT -5
absolutely not
the product went from exciting to making absolutely no sense at all
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,045
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Post by dav on Jan 4, 2011 14:51:42 GMT -5
Heh? Throughout the year we've seen a lost of Russo booking. Constant and pointless swerves, yo-yo booking, a huge heel group that looks strong at the expense of the faces looking incredibly weak, idiotic knocks against the WWE, Godawful shoots that went against logic and reason, pointless and far too many face/heel turns and over dependence on gimmick matches.
Most of the year has been all Russo booking from what I can see. He's the head booker, he's the one who has the final say on all choices and from what I've seen, he makes a great deal of them.
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Post by The Tank on Jan 4, 2011 14:54:22 GMT -5
Hogan's regime has been so detrimental to the product, I haven't watched a full episode of iMPACT since April.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2011 14:56:44 GMT -5
Heh? Throughout the year we've seen a lost of Russo booking. Constant and pointless swerves, yo-yo booking, a huge heel group that looks strong at the expense of the faces looking incredibly weak, idiotic knocks against the WWE, Godawful shoots that went against logic and reason, pointless and far too many face/heel turns and over dependence on gimmick matches. Most of the year has been all Russo booking from what I can see. He's the head booker, he's the one who has the final say on all choices and from what I've seen, he makes a great deal of them. Constant and pointless swerves, yo-yo booking, a huge heel group that looks strong at the expense of the faces looking incredibly weak, idiotic knocks against the WWE, Godawful shoots that went against logic and reason, These are also vintage Bischoff.
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Post by poi zen rana on Jan 4, 2011 15:01:53 GMT -5
Heh? Throughout the year we've seen a lost of Russo booking. Constant and pointless swerves, yo-yo booking, a huge heel group that looks strong at the expense of the faces looking incredibly weak, idiotic knocks against the WWE, Godawful shoots that went against logic and reason, pointless and far too many face/heel turns and over dependence on gimmick matches. Most of the year has been all Russo booking from what I can see. He's the head booker, he's the one who has the final say on all choices and from what I've seen, he makes a great deal of them. It has been proven before that just because we (fans) say something "reeks of Russo booking" doesn't mean we know what we are talking about. Dutch Mantell has been identified as the man behind a few incidents that elicited "FIRE RUSSO" chants. The truth is, just because there are worked shoots, gimmick matches , and swerves does not mean Russo was responsible for all of it. Just take a look at my analysis from a few posts ago of the direction TNA was taking before HogSchoff showed up. It would be hard to say there wasn't a huge change in direction when HogSchoff came in no matter what preconceptions of Russo's abilities you have. The Russo booking we saw last year saw AJ getting the belt, and Christopher Daniels, Samoa Joe, Matt Morgan, and Hernandez all being pushed to the top of the card. Granted Morgan is poised near the top again, but I can't help but wonder where he would be if things didn't suddenly change when the new guys came in. Head booker or not. PS do you think Bischoff lied when he said he was going to have some creative say in the product? Do you believe that Hogan has no creative control? Maybe on both accounts but I would be surprised.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,320
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 4, 2011 15:02:24 GMT -5
Let's not forget ranking the Knockouts one tier below office whores.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,045
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Post by dav on Jan 4, 2011 15:38:06 GMT -5
He's the head booker. He is responsible for all of it. It's rather implied in the title I should think. Aside from Dixie Carter, he's the one who makes the choices that define the company's output. Just because it might have been suggested by someone else doesn't mean that he has to go along with it. His is the final say in the booking.
Three of those have main evented or featured heavily this year too. And just because they were in the ME doesn't always mean the booking's top notch to say the least.
To be honest, I wouldn't trust Bischoff if he gave the directions to the opposite end of a very small room. He seems to have gone for production for emphasis and as I said, Russo still has final say in the ideas. Hogan... I honestly couldn't say. The bloke's had that many issues personally that his actual input into creative for TNA wouldn't be something that'd dominate his time as other things. Bishcoff may have a greater say than Hogan out of time neccesities and may have helped exagerate other flaws of Russo's with his own as Numero pointed out.
As someone said earlier, TNA needs one person with a vision and it isn't Russo. Whatever his virtues might be, his timeof crash TV just doesn't have the same pull it did ten years ago. Something that TNA as a whole really needs to learn.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Jan 4, 2011 15:44:49 GMT -5
It ain't over until it's over and the only person who should have any need of a report card on Hogan and Bischoff and their impact on TNA is Dixie Carter. Or the people who paid for the PPV's, house show tickets and watched their television program. Ah, but those in here will either continue to buy and gripe or never buy at all and gripe all the same. The only reason I post as I do ("wait and see") is because I have been right to say so when so many ask "Why did they do that? It makes no sense" before they see the follow up logic.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2011 15:48:18 GMT -5
Or the people who paid for the PPV's, house show tickets and watched their television program. Ah, but those in here will either continue to buy and gripe or never buy at all and gripe all the same. The only reason I post as I do ("wait and see") is because I have been right to say so when so many ask "Why did they do that? It makes no sense" before they see the follow up logic. And there have been just as many times or more that it hasn't made sense. I think Hogan/Bisch should answer to Dixie, but I'd say that when talking specifically about hogan/bisch's first year in TNA its fair game to say that any "wait and see" scenarios have already played themselves out. The thread is about Hogan's first year in TNA. It is over. And
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Post by poi zen rana on Jan 4, 2011 15:55:50 GMT -5
dav,
I agree that head booker should imply that you are the end all be all booking authority, but I do not believe that has always panned out. Creative control clauses, and big names going over the booker's head to the owner have resulted in the head booker being over ruled in the past.
Maybe Russo is the end all be all authority on booking. Definitely plausible. My only question is, if Hogan and Bischoff did not influence the booking, why did Russo go from trying to take focus off older wrestlers and establish a new generation of main eventers, to focusing back on older established names at the exact time Hogan and Bischoff showed up? It could definitely be due him happening to completely change his mind coincidently that exact moment, but that IS quite a coincidence to me.
I think we can argue over whose idea it was but we should be able to agree that right before HogSchoff arrived there was a youth push that faded as soon as they arrived. So I prefer 09 to 10
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Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
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Post by Jimmy on Jan 4, 2011 15:57:31 GMT -5
As Russo himself likes to point out, he's the head writer. He doesn't book, he writes. He was absolutely in charge from September 09-December 09, he was part of the big collaboration in 2010.
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Post by poi zen rana on Jan 4, 2011 16:01:30 GMT -5
As Russo himself likes to point out, he's the head writer. He doesn't book, he writes. He was absolutely in charge from September 09-December 09, he was part of the big collaboration in 2010. I agree. I just think there was a collaboration in 2010 and it wasn't the same situation that was present from mid 09 to December 09
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 4, 2011 16:04:37 GMT -5
To further defend my HIRE RUSSO comment I decided to analyze the ppv cards of TNA. July 2009- Victory Road Main Event - Kurt Angle defeats Foley ---------------DUTCH LEAVES TNA---------------- August 2009 - Hard Justice Main Event - Kurt Angle defeats Sting and Morgan September 2009 - No Surrender Main Event - AJ defeats Kurt, Hernandez, Morgan, and Sting October 2009 - Bound For Glory Main Event - AJ defeats Sting November 2009 - Turning Point Main Event - AJ defeats Daniels and Joe December 2009 - Final Resolution Main Event - AJ defeats Daniels ----------------HOGAN and BISCHOFF arrive -------------- January 2010 - Genesis Main Event - AJ defeats Kurt Then we get an influx of Nasty Boyism, Love Spongeism, and Hogan Bischoff and Flair being center stage. True Russo may have been holding the title of head booker in 2010, but it is pretty obvious the creative direction went in a completely different way once HogSchoff arrived. I don't think it was coincidental. For all the complaints about TNA never concentrating on young/homegrown talent, it amazes me that the person who did just that, Russo, is still hated more than any other. It's also important to keep in mind that the ratings during this time went down, and it started the big ratings shift that TNA experiences now. They were higher when Dutch, Jarrett and Russo were in the team. Russo is still the head writer, or booker though at this point.
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