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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jun 10, 2011 13:36:09 GMT -5
I'm not saying Morgan is free and clear but I am saying that comedy is subjective and tone of the material can not be translated through written word. He made a joke of stabbing his son to death if he was gay. I don't care how you spin it, there's no context that makes that acceptable. What about those who use the "free speech" excuse to get away with whatever hateful nonsense they feel like spouting?
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Post by Hit Girl on Jun 10, 2011 13:37:50 GMT -5
He should be sacked from 30 Rock Why? Yeah this was a major douchey move but not a reason for the guy to be fired. I'm bi myself and I find myself annoyed I see so many people from the LBGT community wanting him fired so badly. Is this gonna effect my opinion of a guy I found extremely funny? Yes. Is it gonna make me want his career ruined and his chances of doing what he loves ruined? Hell no. Freedom of speech goes both ways, whether someone says something I find offensive or not. I don't deny that he doesn't have a right to free speech, but it can come with consequences. If I was an NBC executive, I wouldn't want the company associated with homophobic rants, which this appeared to be. If his career is ruined, then it's his own fault for speaking without due consideration first.
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Fern
Bubba Ho-Tep
Who gives a f***?
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Post by Fern on Jun 10, 2011 13:37:57 GMT -5
I'm not saying Morgan is free and clear but I am saying that comedy is subjective and tone of the material can not be translated through written word. He made a joke of stabbing his son to death if he was gay. I don't care how you spin it, there's no context that makes that acceptable. What about those who use the "free speech" excuse to get away with whatever hateful nonsense they feel like spouting? Then you support it.
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Post by alabastergrim on Jun 10, 2011 14:02:11 GMT -5
I'm not saying Morgan is free and clear but I am saying that comedy is subjective and tone of the material can not be translated through written word. He made a joke of stabbing his son to death if he was gay. I don't care how you spin it, there's no context that makes that acceptable. What about those who use the "free speech" excuse to get away with whatever hateful nonsense they feel like spouting? Except and this is something everyone forgets, him making a joke like that about his son "isn't acceptable" to YOU. Others might not see a problem with it. I've said many times that I would kill my sister, I never actually have and I never actually would. Again, we don't know the tone and in all liklihood, he was in character. That doesn't make what he said "right" and you don't have to find it funny but that doesn't mean others feeo the same as you. As for someone who uses free speech to say hateful things, as much as I disagree with them, yes I defend their right and you should too. If you only support speech that you agree with, it's not really free speech. You can't have it both ways ("he said both ways!") Then again, I've always been of the mindset that 1) NOTHING is sacred in comedy, ever and 2) ANYONE can say ANYTHING they want to regardless of whether or not I agree. And before anyone tries to discredit my view or spin it a different way, I want to make this clear...I DON'T agree with what Morgan said and even though I believe tone means a lot, it would be quite the feat to make what he said funny.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2011 14:02:37 GMT -5
Why? Yeah this was a major douchey move but not a reason for the guy to be fired. I'm bi myself and I find myself annoyed I see so many people from the LBGT community wanting him fired so badly. Is this gonna effect my opinion of a guy I found extremely funny? Yes. Is it gonna make me want his career ruined and his chances of doing what he loves ruined? Hell no. Freedom of speech goes both ways, whether someone says something I find offensive or not. I don't deny that he doesn't have a right to free speech, but it can come with consequences. If I was an NBC executive, I wouldn't want the company associated with homophobic rants, which this appeared to be. If his career is ruined, then it's his own fault for speaking without due consideration first. He's still protected. If he's fired to ''Protect Gay Rights'' or whatever than that's violating his rights.
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Post by Orange on Jun 10, 2011 14:03:58 GMT -5
I find it funny that some say that if he was in character it would be okay. So when Michael Richards called those men n******, it would've been okay if he did it as Kramer? That somehow takes the hatred and true intent out of it?
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Post by Alex Shelley on Jun 10, 2011 14:05:27 GMT -5
I don't deny that he doesn't have a right to free speech, but it can come with consequences. If I was an NBC executive, I wouldn't want the company associated with homophobic rants, which this appeared to be. If his career is ruined, then it's his own fault for speaking without due consideration first. He's still protected. If he's fired to ''Protect Gay Rights'' or whatever than that's violating his rights. Um... No it isn't? Free speech protects you from the GOVERNMENT. People really need to get their learnin' on about what the first amendment actually says.
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Jun 10, 2011 14:06:32 GMT -5
I find it funny that some say that if he was in character it would be okay. So when Michael Richards called those men n******, it would've been okay if he did it as Kramer? That somehow takes the hatred and true intent out of it? To be fair, none of us has seen the bit in question. We don't know the true intent yet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2011 14:06:35 GMT -5
I find it funny that some say that if he was in character it would be okay. So when Michael Richards called those men n******, it would've been okay if he did it as Kramer? That somehow takes the hatred and true intent out of it? Yes. Michael Richards got upset and yelled at fans out of anger. If it was a bit where he did as Kramer than it would be scripted and there would be no hatred. Hell it would probably than have Kramer try to act black or speak Swahili to try and prove he wasn't racist.
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Post by Citizen Zero on Jun 10, 2011 14:10:31 GMT -5
Finally, everyone seems to support free speech until that speech says something they don't agree with... That is a load of absolute horsecrap. Name *one* post, just *one* single post where someone advocated government censorship? For the record, free speech means the government can't stop you from saying stupid crap like this. It doesn't mean society can't rightfully tar and feather you for it.
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Post by Johnny Truant on Jun 10, 2011 14:11:16 GMT -5
He made a joke of stabbing his son to death if he was gay. I don't care how you spin it, there's no context that makes that acceptable. What about those who use the "free speech" excuse to get away with whatever hateful nonsense they feel like spouting? Except and this is something everyone forgets, him making a joke like that about his son "isn't acceptable" to YOU. Others might not see a problem with it. I've said many times that I would kill my sister, I never actually have and I never actually would. Again, we don't know the tone and in all liklihood, he was in character. That doesn't make what he said "right" and you don't have to find it funny but that doesn't mean others feeo the same as you. As for someone who uses free speech to say hateful things, as much as I disagree with them, yes I defend their right and you should too. If you only support speech that you agree with, it's not really free speech. You can't have it both ways ("he said both ways!") Then again, I've always been of the mindset that 1) NOTHING is sacred in comedy, ever and 2) ANYONE can say ANYTHING they want to regardless of whether or not I agree. And before anyone tries to discredit my view or spin it a different way, I want to make this clear...I DON'T agree with what Morgan said and even though I believe tone means a lot, it would be quite the feat to make what he said funny. I agree with the entirety of this post.
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Post by mysterydriver on Jun 10, 2011 14:26:44 GMT -5
If he does lose his gig I'll have trouble feeling sorry for him. Anyone with sense would know you can't go and offend a ton of folks and figure on keeping your network-tv job. But remember, if it was "in character" then it can't have been offensive. Characters can't be offensive, no matter what they say, apparently. I call that the "Channel Awesome" defense since some "ThatGuy" performers will instantly claim someone was 'in character' if they receive flack. And when I heard that everyone was ticked at Tracy Morgan, I just assumed that Cop Out must have been shown on cable. Seriously, though, joke-or-no, it was a stupid thing to say/do. Much like Gilbert Gottfried's Japan Tsunami jokes. They were jokes, but they were a stupid thing to do. Gilbert lost his Aflac job (mianly due to them have 90% of business in Japan, I'd assume) and Tracy will probably have some sort of punishment. Maybe not the 30 Rock show, but he may lose some bookings here or there.
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Post by Alex Shelley on Jun 10, 2011 14:26:52 GMT -5
Finally, everyone seems to support free speech until that speech says something they don't agree with... That is a load of absolute horsecrap. Name *one* post, just *one* single post where someone advocated government censorship? For the record, free speech means the government can't stop you from saying stupid crap like this. It doesn't mean society can't rightfully tar and feather you for it. I feel like we're fighting a losing battle trying to explain that.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jun 10, 2011 14:30:08 GMT -5
And before anyone tries to discredit my view or spin it a different way, I want to make this clear...I DON'T agree with what Morgan said and even though I believe tone means a lot, it would be quite the feat to make what he said funny. They why did you say it in the first place? It falls back on what was said before: So apparently he has the right to be offensive... But we don't have the right to be offended?
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jun 10, 2011 14:30:59 GMT -5
That is a load of absolute horsecrap. Name *one* post, just *one* single post where someone advocated government censorship? For the record, free speech means the government can't stop you from saying stupid crap like this. It doesn't mean society can't rightfully tar and feather you for it. I feel like we're fighting a losing battle trying to explain that. "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence." - Justice Louis D. Brandeis In other words "the cure for bad speech is more speech, or better speech"
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Fern
Bubba Ho-Tep
Who gives a f***?
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Post by Fern on Jun 10, 2011 14:36:53 GMT -5
He hates gays, I don't see the big deal.
It's Tracy Morgan! f*** him.
He has no stake, and it's HIS opinion.
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Post by Display Name on Jun 10, 2011 14:42:01 GMT -5
Glad to come back to this thread and see I'm not the only one that "gets" Tracy Morgan's comedy.The rest of you are getting trolled by Tracy Morgan.This is the same guy that said he liked vaginal disharge because "it's the special sauce on a Big Mac"...again,don't take the dude seriously.
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Post by Citizen Zero on Jun 10, 2011 14:42:27 GMT -5
He hates gays, I don't see the big deal. It's Tracy Morgan! f*** him. He has no stake, and it's HIS opinion. And it's our opinion that he's a shithead. And that would've been the extent of my commentary on the matter if the Free Speech Fallacy crowd hadn't moved in.
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Y2M
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Y2M on Jun 10, 2011 14:43:04 GMT -5
He hates gays, I don't see the big deal. It's Tracy Morgan! f*** him. He has no stake, and it's HIS opinion. He said he'd kill his son if he was gay. That's a big deal in my eyes. I don't see how that can be taken as a joke. If a celebrity said they'd kill Obama if he was gay, you'd bet it would be a big deal. He's just abusing his freedom of speech.
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Post by alabastergrim on Jun 10, 2011 14:43:48 GMT -5
So I take it we're all gonna just move in circles now. We're going to try to say the same things we already said in slightly different ways in this nevet-ending argument. This exact thread has happened a ludicrous amount of times already, it just has different titles and it's a discussion that's never going to stop. Part of the problem is this (and it's up to you to figure out what I'm talking about...)
This board has an obvious slant. That's fine as discussion from different viewpoints is healthy BUT when others express different viewpoints here, well quite frankly they're treated like assholes.
Every argument here devolves into swearing and CAPITALIZATION for EMPHASIS (guilty) and sarcastic comments that are obvious baiting but the mods don't stop it. This tnread will just get locked until the next time a celebrity says something "wrong". The cycle will continue but the one thing you can count on is this: intelligent, rational discussion won't happen and that's the biggest shame to me.
And with that off my chest and hopefully no reprecussions, I'm done with this particular thread.
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