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Post by rapidfire187 on Apr 4, 2011 3:06:55 GMT -5
I hope Taker didn't get injured, and nothing really stood out that made me think he was. I actually thought that HHH was hurt after he took that backdrop from the announce table. It looked like he hurt his arm. My cousin told me that it looked like HHH was favoring his wrist.
Then low and behold, I read the WM results on 411mania, and the writer said the exact same thing about HHH favoring the wrist.
Personally, I think they were both selling wonderfully. I'm sure they're both banged up, but I'm thinking they're ok. I would like to see the match with commentary to see how it was being sold by the announcers, but it seemed to me that the story was that HHH took Taker beyond his limit, and only lost because Taker got lucky with Hell's Gates. Even though Taker won, it took everything he had to pull it off, and nearly destroyed him. Also, the thing about HHH stalling by yelling at Taker..idk not buying it. I think it was a call back to how Taker was telling Shawn to stay down last year, which I think was a call back to Shawn's "I'm sorry I love you" to Flair 2 years prior. I'm thinking it's just great psychology.
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Post by Rorschach on Apr 4, 2011 3:12:43 GMT -5
I hope Taker didn't get injured, and nothing really stood out that made me think he was. I actually thought that HHH was hurt after he took that backdrop from the announce table. It looked like he hurt his arm. My cousin told me that it looked like HHH was favoring his wrist. Then low and behold, I read the WM results on 411mania, and the writer said the exact same thing about HHH favoring the wrist. Personally, I think they were both selling wonderfully. I'm sure they're both banged up, but I'm thinking they're ok. I would like to see the match with commentary to see how it was being sold by the announcers, but it seemed to me that the story was that HHH took Taker beyond his limit, and only lost because Taker got lucky with Hell's Gates. Even though Taker won, it took everything he had to pull it off, and nearly destroyed him. Also, the thing about HHH stalling by yelling at Taker..idk not buying it. I think it was a call back to how Taker was telling Shawn to stay down last year, which I think was a call back to Shawn's "I'm sorry I love you" to Flair 2 years prior. I'm thinking it's just great psychology. If such IS the case, you think then that Hunter will demand his "rematch" next year and THEN kill the Streak? Or will the coming weeks have Taker retire, thus allowing Hunter to say that although he didn't break the streak, he *DID* end it?
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Apr 4, 2011 3:13:48 GMT -5
So if Hunter botches a move and takes out the Undertaker PERMANENTLY....who gets the NUCLEAR HEATZZZ? Oh God...they're gonna fire Bryan and Sheamus aren't they? Johnny Ace: Bryan, because you and Sheamus' match was bumped off the card, we had too much time for the HHH/Taker match. Because of this extra time, HHH injured Taker. We're sorry, you're being released from your contract. Daniel Bryan: But it's not our fault. We didn't WANT our match moved. Ace: It's your fault for being a wrestler. You should have spent more time trying to be a superstar. We had no choice. We HAD to remove you from the card. Bryan: But that doesn't make any sen- Ace: Get out of my office! >:C And Sheamus' problem is that he didn't complain and raise a stink backstage when his feud with HHH was dropped. If Sheamus had refused to go to the midcard without a fuss, he might've gotten a match with HHH and prevented Hunter from injuring the Undertaker, ergo this whole mess is also Big Red's fault.
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Boozeman
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Post by Boozeman on Apr 4, 2011 3:17:21 GMT -5
Well his "Last Outlaw" character does seem a little more human than usual. There was no reason for Triple H to be stretchered out. I mean, he took a powerbomb and a tombstone, but that's it. He was in control most of the way and basically got caught at the end with a finisher. 'Taker took an assload of finishers and got demolished with a chair. IMO, the whole point of it is that it was a war between two guys who are the last of a dying breed in the WWE, and even though Triple H couldn't end the streak, he at least walked out on his own two feet, where 'Taker was beaten so badly that he couldn't (even though the streak is still alive). They could have had the druids come out there, but I think it would have added too hokey of an ending to such a great match. Hunter took more than a powerbomb and a tombstone. He ate the chair too, and took a Last Ride AND got choked out by a banned move that's put countless other stars out for the count. He took his share of an asswhipping, and there's no WAY he should have left on his own two feet, IMO. He should have been helped out as well. Him being all "A-OK" at the end.....that just didn't sit right with me personally. It felt off, especially as Hunter had been the one with all the "die trying" stuff. Which then brings me BACK to point 1 about how the ending seemed like an improv to cover something. I wouldn't say he was "A-OK". It took him forever to get up and once he did he stumbled very slowly and gingerly to the back. Now, looking at the match, Triple H sold the chair like it was nothing. He got hit with it and then nailed a pedigree about 10 seconds later. So he took the Last Ride and Submission finisher. Not enough to need to be carried out - maybe for the average "superstar" - but not for "The Game". Undertaker sold the finishers and chairshots like death. Yeah, HHH took a chair to the back, but 'Taker to 7 to the back, ONE to the head, one tombstone, three pedigrees. Why is it weird that he DIDN'T walk out on his own after all that? Frankly I'd think it would be weird if he did. Once again, Triple H walking out makes total sense for the story that I believe they were trying to tell in the match. It came off perfectly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2011 3:17:24 GMT -5
Johnny Ace: Bryan, because you and Sheamus' match was bumped off the card, we had too much time for the HHH/Taker match. Because of this extra time, HHH injured Taker. We're sorry, you're being released from your contract. Daniel Bryan: But it's not our fault. We didn't WANT our match moved. Ace: It's your fault for being a wrestler. You should have spent more time trying to be a superstar. We had no choice. We HAD to remove you from the card. Bryan: But that doesn't make any sen- Ace: Get out of my office! >:C And Sheamus' problem is that he didn't complain and raise a stink backstage when his feud with HHH was dropped. If Sheamus had refused to go to the midcard without a fuss, he might've gotten a match with HHH and prevented Hunter from injuring the Undertaker, ergo this whole mess is also Big Red's fault. And further, if Kofi Kingston hadn't been busy with the Intercontinental title, he could have been in the match at Fatal Four Way and they wouldn't have needed to have Rey vs. Taker as a qualifying match, so Taker wouldn't have been injured the first time. So this is all Drew McIntyre's fault for not fighting the idea of feuding with Kofi.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Apr 4, 2011 3:21:59 GMT -5
I hope Taker didn't get injured, and nothing really stood out that made me think he was. I actually thought that HHH was hurt after he took that backdrop from the announce table. It looked like he hurt his arm. My cousin told me that it looked like HHH was favoring his wrist. Then low and behold, I read the WM results on 411mania, and the writer said the exact same thing about HHH favoring the wrist. Personally, I think they were both selling wonderfully. I'm sure they're both banged up, but I'm thinking they're ok. I would like to see the match with commentary to see how it was being sold by the announcers, but it seemed to me that the story was that HHH took Taker beyond his limit, and only lost because Taker got lucky with Hell's Gates. Even though Taker won, it took everything he had to pull it off, and nearly destroyed him. Also, the thing about HHH stalling by yelling at Taker..idk not buying it. I think it was a call back to how Taker was telling Shawn to stay down last year, which I think was a call back to Shawn's "I'm sorry I love you" to Flair 2 years prior. I'm thinking it's just great psychology. If such IS the case, you think then that Hunter will demand his "rematch" next year and THEN kill the Streak? Or will the coming weeks have Taker retire, thus allowing Hunter to say that although he didn't break the streak, he *DID* end it? I'm really not sure where they're going with it to be honest. It seems to make logical sense that Taker would retire after WM 28. He'll be going for 20-0, so you can either have him retire with that record, or have the heart break ending with him being 19-1. I certainly hope that he doesn't have a rematch with HHH next year. They had a good match, but it'd be overkill. Then again, I said the same thing about HBK after WM 25. I like the idea of HHH claiming to have put Taker out of commission, especially since Taker will probably go back on hiatus anyway. I would be all for doing their rematch at SummerSlam or something and having HHH go over there. But for WM 28 I really think they need to put him with Cena (that is if they don't/can't go with Cena/Rock). If not Cena, then I still want it to be someone believable that Taker hasn't beaten at Mania yet...but who? There's Punk but nobody would believe that he'd go over. Miz would have that same problem, but maybe even worse. Del Rio would probably have the same problem. Even if they brought Jericho back for it, same problem. I really don't know who could be a believable threat to the streak besides Cena at this point, other than WWE somehow getting Sting, Goldberg, or Lesnar...all of whom wouldn't be as much of a threat IMO, but still more-so than anyone else that I can think of. I suppose if The Rock is really serious about wrestling again, they could do Rock/Miz and Rock/Cena this year, and then Rock/Undertaker at Mania 28 in Miami. That...that...actually sounds like a great idea.
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Post by Rorschach on Apr 4, 2011 3:31:57 GMT -5
Hunter took more than a powerbomb and a tombstone. He ate the chair too, and took a Last Ride AND got choked out by a banned move that's put countless other stars out for the count. He took his share of an asswhipping, and there's no WAY he should have left on his own two feet, IMO. He should have been helped out as well. Him being all "A-OK" at the end.....that just didn't sit right with me personally. It felt off, especially as Hunter had been the one with all the "die trying" stuff. Which then brings me BACK to point 1 about how the ending seemed like an improv to cover something. I wouldn't say he was "A-OK". It took him forever to get up and once he did he stumbled very slowly and gingerly to the back. Now, looking at the match, Triple H sold the chair like it was nothing. He got hit with it and then nailed a pedigree about 10 seconds later. So he took the Last Ride and Submission finisher. Not enough to need to be carried out - maybe for the average "superstar" - but not for "The Game". Undertaker sold the finishers and chairshots like death. Yeah, HHH took a chair to the back, but 'Taker to 7 to the back, ONE to the head, one tombstone, three pedigrees. Why is it weird that he DIDN'T walk out on his own after all that? Frankly I'd think it would be weird if he did. Once again, Triple H walking out makes total sense for the story that I believe they were trying to tell in the match. It came off perfectly. Why doesn't it make sense? Because Triple H is not a superhuman badass (to anyone other than his own mind). Taker is/has been sold as one for ages. So Hunter absorbing enough punishment to put down any other main eventer, and yet being just dandy afterwards is complete horses***. Again, even IF they're playing with the "Taker's lost his powers/is human again" thing, that doesn't excuse Hunter no-selling what the WWE has put over as it's deadliest submission ever. Hunter played Superman worse than Cena tonight.
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Post by joebob27 on Apr 4, 2011 3:38:27 GMT -5
Why doesn't it make sense? Because Triple H is not a superhuman badass (to anyone other than his own mind). Taker is/has been sold as one for ages. So Hunter absorbing enough punishment to put down any other main eventer, and yet being just dandy afterwards is complete horses***. Again, even IF they're playing with the "Taker's lost his powers/is human again" thing, that doesn't excuse Hunter no-selling what the WWE has put over as it's deadliest submission ever. Hunter played Superman worse than Cena tonight. Were we watching the same thing? Anyway, this is getting off topic. I think people are jumping to way too many conclusions. Nah, he's right, it was a bad continuity botch. Everyone taps out of that move in like 10 seconds or ends up bleeding out of their mouths and badly injured. I guess they can't do the blood thing anymore, but it was a really weird no-sell. The way they sell that move, they should have been doing their pulse check on Trips.
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Post by Rorschach on Apr 4, 2011 3:39:44 GMT -5
If you mean the guy PUTTING ON THE DEADLY SUBMISSION HOLD being carted out while the guy who supposedly got choked out walked away....then yeah we were.
I just feel like that ending made Hunter look needlessly over-powerful. But then again, it's Hunter so what do you expect? Even in defeat he is unstoppable, and the ultimate winner.
Anyway, if there wasn't some sort of injury there, then both men are very lucky. Lots of risky spots in that match for a guy like Taker, who wasn't 100% to begin with.
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Post by D2: Sweet & Sour Edition on Apr 4, 2011 3:45:21 GMT -5
Were we watching the same thing? Anyway, this is getting off topic. I think people are jumping to way too many conclusions. Nah, he's right, it was a bad continuity botch. Everyone taps out of that move in like 10 seconds or ends up bleeding out of their mouths and badly injured. I guess they can't do the blood thing anymore, but it was a really weird no-sell. The way they sell that move, they should have been doing their pulse check on Trips. To be fair, Triple H WAS bleeding after the hold.
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Boozeman
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Post by Boozeman on Apr 4, 2011 3:56:13 GMT -5
As I've said countless times, Triple H and Undertaker took different levels of punishment throughout the match. The last 10 minutes of the match was basically Undertaker getting his brains beat in and just barely kicking out. Triple H was doing just fine and then got caught in the Hells Gate.
You keep using terms like "A-OK" and "Fine and dandy" as if Triple H was doing backflips and skipping and whistling his way up the ramp after the match. He wasn't. I thought he sold it fine. He laid on the mat for about as long as Undertaker did, then struggled to his feet and stumbled out of the ring. I mean, the Hell's Gate is just a chokehold. So if anything, Triple H got choked out and then woke up. No need for a stretcher.
Even if your assertion that any "other" main eventer would have needed to be carted out were true, I'll once again stress that different rules apply in this situation when you're talking about two of the most protected wrestlers in WWE history. I'm sure Triple H wanted to come out of this looking strong somehow. For him to kick Undertaker's ass all match, LOSE, AND get carted out would not have been a good look for him.
I like that they put a new twist on the ending to an Undertaker match. We've never seen him actually win the match but lose the "war", so to speak.
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Post by joebob27 on Apr 4, 2011 3:57:33 GMT -5
Yeah, because he got scratched. lol. I checked the WM 24 match because I was pretty sure it was the finish. Edge got put into it after a spear and lasted about 20 seconds before being put into oblivion. So Trips is one tough dude. It's not a big deal, and it really doesn't effect the match at all, it was just kind of goofy.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 4, 2011 4:03:57 GMT -5
Why exactly do we need to argue about whether a guy is legit injured or not? Is it ego? A reluctance to admit buying into it? Seems like it from the "He's obviously selling, didn't fool me!" replies. None of us know a damn thing.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Apr 4, 2011 4:48:17 GMT -5
Why exactly do we need to argue about whether a guy is legit injured or not? Is it ego? A reluctance to admit buying into it? Seems like it from the "He's obviously selling, didn't fool me!" replies. None of us know a damn thing. I don't think people are arguing over whether or not anyone is injured, they're arguing over the booking of the match which is off topic really. Otherwise, we're just speculating on stuff and offering different points of view to find out if anyone was really hurt. How is that a problem?
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Post by Starshine on Apr 4, 2011 5:24:15 GMT -5
And Sheamus' problem is that he didn't complain and raise a stink backstage when his feud with HHH was dropped. If Sheamus had refused to go to the midcard without a fuss, he might've gotten a match with HHH and prevented Hunter from injuring the Undertaker, ergo this whole mess is also Big Red's fault. And further, if Kofi Kingston hadn't been busy with the Intercontinental title, he could have been in the match at Fatal Four Way and they wouldn't have needed to have Rey vs. Taker as a qualifying match, so Taker wouldn't have been injured the first time. So this is all Drew McIntyre's fault for not fighting the idea of feuding with Kofi. And who exactly was pushing for McIntyre backstage? That's right, Shawn Michaels. But since Vince won't punish him, it figures that Daniel Bryan will again get the brunt of their fury considering he trained at HBK's school.
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Post by Big Daddy Bad Booking on Apr 4, 2011 7:28:06 GMT -5
Just a side-note on this thread: Hell's Gate is no longer a banned move. Teddy Long re-instated the maneuver as a legal one I believe a week before the Hell in a Cell PPV in 2009.
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Chuck Conry
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Post by Chuck Conry on Apr 4, 2011 7:30:36 GMT -5
As far as the ending goes, how many times in MMA have we seen someone lock on a hold and not have it hooked on good enough for a tap at first? That's how I seen it here. Sure it was awkward looking but I just assumed Taker didn't have it hooked in good enough at first, then finally got it really hooked in causing the tap.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Apr 4, 2011 8:44:49 GMT -5
Just a side-note on this thread: Hell's Gate is no longer a banned move. Teddy Long re-instated the maneuver as a legal one I believe a week before the Hell in a Cell PPV in 2009. Wasn't it banned by Vicky just out of spite, anyway?
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M. Dirrty
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Post by M. Dirrty on Apr 4, 2011 8:52:32 GMT -5
As far as the ending goes, how many times in MMA have we seen someone lock on a hold and not have it hooked on good enough for a tap at first? That's how I seen it here. Sure it was awkward looking but I just assumed Taker didn't have it hooked in good enough at first, then finally got it really hooked in causing the tap. Its a gogoplata at that. Only the most elite experienced black belts have the skill set to slap that hold on. But it's Taker... He's got plenty of black belts in his closet and looks his opponents in the eye and says "Wanna do it?". but for SRS..I saw this as Taker pulling an Anderson Silva, and hitting a "home run" in the final minutes, but catching Trips in a submission, with Trips getting the better of him during the match.
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Post by stinger on Apr 4, 2011 8:53:36 GMT -5
It was on PPV. They didn't have the time constraints they do on Raw. They could have gone as long as they wanted, really. So while Taker may be injured, or maybe just doesn't move very well after a match at this point in his career, I doubt that they shortened the title match because of it.
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