Can they turn Cena? (business related)

[Lord Rahl]

I know, I know, these threads pop up every week it seems, but a conversation a buddy and I had last night makes me wanna get the Craps opinion.

The fact a lot of people think his gimmick has run its course aside, can the WWE afford to turn him heel? He moves the most merch (especially with the kids) and he's probably the E's most marketed star. If they turn him, they lose a very large chunk of merch revenue and theres really no one to step into the limelight outside of wrestling.

My argument to my buddy (he thinks they should turn him.....been saying it for a loonngg time) besides what I stated above, was when WcW turned Hogan, they still had Sting to sell to the kids. That I can think of, the E doenst really have that super over #2 face. Mysterio may move some masks, but I cant see him stepping in Cena's shoes.

So, what do my fellow crappers think?

[kevservo]

Cena won't turn until his merch sales go down.

[Burst]

A lot of this really depends on how Sin Cara is received once he debuts. They're putting a lot of eggs into his basket.

Frankly, as much as I'd like it the time isn't right to turn Cena; we need again, a Sting waiting in the wings, whether it's a Morrison, a turned Sheamus, a turned Miz, or what.

Problem with Cena, his character, his attire, is practically DESIGNED for maximum merchandise potential. The only way they could make it even more so is if they were selling jorts, trainers, and kneepads. I think those are seriously the only parts of his ensemble which you can't buy at WWEShop.

Morrison? Kind of hard to sell kids a big floofy fur coat, though the Revolution t-shirts and the sunglasses have been fun. Not an outfit that lends itself well to wristbands or other small accessories though.

Sheamus, though, Sheamus is practically begging to be merchandised. He's got a definitely identifiable motif, he's already got bands, shirts, and big honkin' pendants to sell; only thing you can't really get him into is a baseball cap really, though I'm sure they'd try despite it completely ruining a warrior image, wearing a baseball cap.

But anyways, I see them throwing a tremendous amount of weight behind Sin Cara and then reevaluating.

[Fiddleford H. McGucket]

If they wanted too.....I think they could do a DOUBLE turn and turn Cena and Miz at WM.

Miiz is good for business honestly, he's appearing on talkshows, Non-WWE programming, getting the "face time" and generally promoting WWE. Essentially he's doing what the highly visible face champ WOULD do, but isn't a face.

I think with a big enough push you could flip the face/heel dynamic and still end up doing decent business.

[Urethra Franklin]

The other argument against comparing turning Cena to the Hogan turn is that Hogan still remained a merchandise cash cow with the nWo. I don't think you're going to be able to come up with anything that hot for a heel Cena. Merch will suffer, no questions asked.

[ben:friendship frog]

If there's a heel that everyone hates enough, it really doesn't matter how over the face is.
We saw that when everyone wanted Maven to beat Triple H for the WWE title.

It's a shame The Rock isn't sticking around because after RAW and that crowd reaction it could easily be done.

People say the merchandise will suffer, I don't know. When I went to RAW there was more Nexus shirts than Cena shirts. I think all the older people who hate Cena now would embrace a heel Cena. While all the upset kids will not want their Cena shirts anymore and will be begging to get the shirt of their new hero, whoever that might be.

[rapidfire187]

Mar 29, 2011 21:38:15 GMT -5 Lord Rahl said:

I know, I know, these threads pop up every week it seems, but a conversation a buddy and I had last night makes me wanna get the Craps opinion.

The fact a lot of people think his gimmick has run its course aside, can the WWE afford to turn him heel? He moves the most merch (especially with the kids) and he's probably the E's most marketed star. If they turn him, they lose a very large chunk of merch revenue and theres really no one to step into the limelight outside of wrestling.

My argument to my buddy (he thinks they should turn him.....been saying it for a loonngg time) besides what I stated above, was when WcW turned Hogan, they still had Sting to sell to the kids. That I can think of, the E doenst really have that super over #2 face. Mysterio may move some masks, but I cant see him stepping in Cena's shoes.

So, what do my fellow crappers think?

Are you forgetting Orton? I would say that he's a very clear "super over face" and would be even more over if he were the feuding with a heel Cena.

[rnrk supports BLM]

Mar 29, 2011 21:42:49 GMT -5 Burst said:

A lot of this really depends on how Sin Cara is received once he debuts. They're putting a lot of eggs into his basket.

Even if Sin Cara's as successful as possible, I can't see WWE ever using him as the top babyface star. For all the shifting demographics, I think Vince McMahon still has a very specific image of what he wants the face of the company to look like, and it's not a 5'8 masked luchador.

In terms of how much money and viewers they each bring in, Rey's probably a bigger asset to WWE than Edge or Orton, but he's never going to be getting a dozen world title reigns or remain a perpetual fixture of the main event scene, because they have the look WWE wants for its stars and Mysterio, for all his talent and popularity, doesn't.

[Enrico Palazzo]

Business wise, yeah easily done. As someone mentioned, double turn both Miz and Cena.

I think there is a lot of talent for someone to step up into Cena's role, if creative got behind them and pushed them like Cena.

Main concern is that alot of the audience wouldn't know he has truely turned, especially if he takes out the Rock, and I can't really think of a way that they can turn him 'evil'. He's been sadistic and cruel before, and still the fans cheered.

[ben:friendship frog]

This may sound absolutely ridiculous but get Justin Gabriel working backstage with some promo experts for a few months and he could be a top face in the future.

[CNR79]

Cena would still sell a lot of merch as a heel.

[Snaptastic]

They made a huge mistake turning Cena's character into a walking merchandise stand. The t-shirts and baseball caps fine....but the wristbands and all that getup too? That's where it has gone too far, and they've given themselves a monumental task.
Cena at this stage can never be a full blown heel, as that kind of turn would probably upset a large portion of their demographic in a bad way.

This is the thing you should consider. You turn heel...will the younger Cena fans take to a new hero, or will they just stop watching?

After this whole Cena/Rock thing is done with (I see Cena turning at least tweener/slight heel during this), then perhaps you can turn the cogs a bit more to get that full heel turn.
However, I know I'm probably in the minority....but Cena should step down in the next year or so. This will allow them to start preparing the next up and coming faces to shine in the spotlight.

I'm not saying he should retire, but give him a huge payday and let him take a 8-12 month break. He will be able to spend more of his time and effort into his excellent charitable work, and not be bogged down by being on the road all the time.
Give him a surprise return down the road at say the Royal Rumble similar to his 2008 return, and I think the audience will be ready to see him back.

[Kay Faban]

There is no reason to turn Cena heel. A small portion of fans may not like his character, but the vast majority of the WWE Universe is pro-Cena and likes the way he is.

Until this changes Cena will be Cena and make himself and the WWE lots and lots of money.

[Bang Bang Bart]

They might go for a new hero just to see said new hero beat up on their former hero gone bad in Cena.

[Cronant]

I just can't see it working the way people think it will.

The people who boo him and the people who cheer him are polar opposites. What they want Cena to do is the opposite of what the other side wants.

[Fiddleford H. McGucket]

Mar 29, 2011 21:51:32 GMT -5 rapidfire187 said:

Mar 29, 2011 21:38:15 GMT -5 Lord Rahl said:

I know, I know, these threads pop up every week it seems, but a conversation a buddy and I had last night makes me wanna get the Craps opinion.

The fact a lot of people think his gimmick has run its course aside, can the WWE afford to turn him heel? He moves the most merch (especially with the kids) and he's probably the E's most marketed star. If they turn him, they lose a very large chunk of merch revenue and theres really no one to step into the limelight outside of wrestling.

My argument to my buddy (he thinks they should turn him.....been saying it for a loonngg time) besides what I stated above, was when WcW turned Hogan, they still had Sting to sell to the kids. That I can think of, the E doenst really have that super over #2 face. Mysterio may move some masks, but I cant see him stepping in Cena's shoes.

So, what do my fellow crappers think?

Are you forgetting Orton? I would say that he's a very clear "super over face" and would be even more over if he were the feuding with a heel Cena.

The only reason I DON'T see Orton in that spot is twofold.

1. He's not getting the media attention. Cena and Miz are both very MSM friendly. Both are adept at taking control in an interview and promoting the product. Orton, even in NON-WWE interviews, comes across as cold and unemotional.....not what you want as your top face.

2. Orton, to me anyway, doesn't have a hook for the MSM. The "Third Generation" schtick's already been done, and to a better degree by The Rock. He doesn't have any great "Face" matches to show clips from, and a heel is hard to promote to non-wrestling fans. Cena's been face long enough to have YEARS worth of positive clips for the media blitz and Miz (If they decided to turn him) has the "Cinderella Story" angle to play off of, or at least a "Fan's Dream" idea.

[Snaptastic]

Mar 29, 2011 22:04:33 GMT -5 Kay Faban said:

There is no reason to turn Cena heel. A small portion of fans may not like his character, but the vast majority of the WWE Universe is pro-Cena and likes the way he is.

Until this changes Cena will be Cena and make himself and the WWE lots and lots of money.

Last year it was reported that only 22% of the audience are under the age of 18 (arguably Cena's prime demographic).
Also 40% of the audience overall is female (also arguably Cena's prime demographic when it comes to sex).

Cena is appealing for the most part to a "minority" audience share, and when it comes to largely male (sometimes smarky I'll say) audiences...the guy is booed out of the building.
I don't think it's anything to do with they hate the guy, or are supporting everyone against him. It's more so that they want to see a revamped Cena.
How long before his main demographic appeal group becomes burned out?

You can't keep changing the colour of his merch and expect it to keep selling. Eventually the audience will say enough is enough (and it's time for a change).

[BorneAgain]

Largely restating what was already said, but from a business standpoint, its ridiculous to turn Cena until they have another babyface to fill his shoes.

Mysterio, Edge, Taker, HHH, are getting old so they're out.

Orton's a great dark babyface, but not really the ideal guy to take over in regards to capturing the kids demo.

Morrison could work, but the guy lacks the innate charisma of Cena and has not yet reached the latter's vast appeal among families and children.

I suspect its going to be some time before he turns. Keep in mind, Hogan was a major league babyface for about 12 and a half years (admittedly I'm ignoring his AWA fun).

Cena hasn't been heel since fall 2003. Guy still has time in the babyface column for a while.

[kidglov3s]

Mar 29, 2011 22:11:18 GMT -5 Snaptastic said:

Mar 29, 2011 22:04:33 GMT -5 Kay Faban said:

There is no reason to turn Cena heel. A small portion of fans may not like his character, but the vast majority of the WWE Universe is pro-Cena and likes the way he is.

Until this changes Cena will be Cena and make himself and the WWE lots and lots of money.

Last year it was reported that only 22% of the audience are under the age of 18 (arguably Cena's prime demographic).
Also 40% of the audience overall is female (also arguably Cena's prime demographic when it comes to sex).

Cena is appealing for the most part to a "minority" audience share, and when it comes to largely male (sometimes smarky I'll say) audiences...the guy is booed out of the building.
I don't think it's anything to do with they hate the guy, or are supporting everyone against him. It's more so that they want to see a revamped Cena.
How long before his main demographic appeal group becomes burned out?

You can't keep changing the colour of his merch and expect it to keep selling. Eventually the audience will say enough is enough (and it's time for a change).

I think the demographics issue is a little bit more complicated. A kid is different than an adult. An adult represents one adult. A kid represents at least one kid and at least one guardian. If 40% of the audience is women, that's a significant share of your audience and I'd be shocked if the majority of them (and a sizable portion of the men) don't go to shows as an aforementioned guardian. When it comes to merch and stuff, kids are going to be more eager to want it, purchased by their parents. When it comes to PPV a single adult is going to be a lot less likely to actually pay for it to watch it than a parent, who may want to be setting a good example for their children.

WWE's entire business model revolves around children, and the children revolve around John Cena at this time. When I went to Raw there could be no question that the majority of the audience were families with children.

[Kay Faban]

the problem with your argument is that you assume all non kid and non female fans hate Cena. That's not the case. The minority of fans that boo him are very vocal and are very apparent in the smarky cities, perhaps even being the majority in rare cases. Week to week though Cena gets the biggest babyface reaction of any act, and it's usually not close.

If the WWE thought they could make more money by turning Cena heel they would. It's not like they are new at this, they will run with mega-face hero Cena as long as it makes them lots of money.