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Post by celticjobber on Jan 12, 2012 0:31:42 GMT -5
While I respect him and consider Meltzer the most honest wrestling reporter, I completely disagree with his assessment of Monsoon.
I'd take Gorilla's commentating style any day over the dry, boring style of Gordon Solie (for example).
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Jan 12, 2012 4:13:19 GMT -5
Quote from Meltzer The readers thought the same thing. Gordon Solie was the one His readers prefer back then Well, Monsoon was right. It's not his fault WWE didn't have baby faces submit at times. It's not his fault guys weren't hooking the leg. Monsoon gets bashed because he was right? You have guys on commentary who mis call moves, who forget people's names (that Parkour guy), and sure, that gets bashed. But Monsoon calls the match like it's a real sport, makes legit analysis, makes real points, has actual discussions on the basis of the match. Exactly. If an athlete in an actual competitive sport does something stupid in the game, the announcer calling the game is going to call him on it. Otherwise, he's not doing his job. That's exactly what Gorilla was doing. Ironic since the We Hate WWF crowd who love their "fake" sport to be as real as possible don't really get that about Gorilla.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 12, 2012 4:36:29 GMT -5
Every last reason Meltzer lists as a flaw in Gorilla's commentating is a reason I say he was the best ever.
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Post by sludgehammer on Jan 12, 2012 4:37:57 GMT -5
I've always liked in commentary when the play-by-play guy rags on someone for not hooking the leg. If someone running the ball in football doesn't tuck the ball and it pops up for a fumble the announcers will point it out.
It adds legitimacy and makes it feel like a sport
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Post by johnnyk9 on Jan 12, 2012 5:35:18 GMT -5
Monsoon never deserved to be named that, don't know why he was
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jan 12, 2012 5:58:07 GMT -5
Even in the WWF there were often people far worse on commentary, Bruno, Billy Graham, Rob Bartlett, Lord Alfred Hayes etc. maybe because Gorilla was the lead commentator he got more exposure, but he was never close to being the worst.
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Post by wildojinx on Jan 12, 2012 9:41:38 GMT -5
Not to mention, Monsoon was a former wrestler, so of course he was going to discuss why certain moves worked and others didnt, he was speaking from experience.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2012 9:52:37 GMT -5
Not to mention, Monsoon was a former wrestler, so of course he was going to discuss why certain moves worked and others didnt, he was speaking from experience. I've always liked in commentary when the play-by-play guy rags on someone for not hooking the leg. If someone running the ball in football doesn't tuck the ball and it pops up for a fumble the announcers will point it out. It adds legitimacy and makes it feel like a sport These are two great reasons why Gorilla was so great. Not only that, but he was absolutely perfect for the tone of the WWF at the time - still over-the-top, cartoonish, and larger than life, but with a sense of logic that made it seem like not only a spectacle, but a legit competition. I still stand by my opinion that Gorilla is the best pro wrestling commentator to date, and has yet to be topped.
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Post by Steveweiser on Jan 12, 2012 10:07:47 GMT -5
Back in those days, Meltzer was able to influence his readers more, as opposed to today, where he often criticises award winners (like last year, when he encouraged votes for Silva/Sonnen for Best Feud, and it ended up being Generico/Steen).
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Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Jan 12, 2012 11:16:26 GMT -5
I'm surprised no one has brought up that parallel with Jim Ross, as he is essentially the "hometown commentator" of the modern era, and lots of fans just can't let go of him, and neither can the business through their own doing.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 12, 2012 11:32:30 GMT -5
I love Gorilla. I'm still searching out (and might just go ahead and design) a "WILL YOU STOP?!" t-shirt.
That said, I can understand why some wouldn't enjoy him so much. I grew up with him, loved his rapport with Heenan, thought he worked great with Ventura, etc. etc. etc., but to a degree I can understand where some of the heels were coming from, if what Meltzer said was true.
There'd be times when Monsoon might scoff at a rest hold, when the psychology of most rest holds is that the heel knows it won't win the match, it's meant to wear somebody down. Also, the leg hooking thing...that's a pet peeve of mine for a couple reasons. One - it discounts the validity of something like a lateral press pin, which is a perfectly valid pin attempt, and two - I love the psychology of "go for the pin, why not? You're a three second mistake away from winning, and even if the guy kicks out he has to expend energy to do it."
That said, for me the Monsoon's positives far outweighed his negatives. He was a brilliant straight-man in an announcing duo with a heel color guy, he was over the top and fun, he fit the Hogan era perfectly. My parents, aunts and uncles would all come over to watch early 90's pay per views with my cousins and I both to babysit us, as well as to just get to listen to Monsoon and Heenan riff.
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jan 12, 2012 12:26:12 GMT -5
So those pointing out that this is an example of Meltzer being an idiot, are you suggesting the voting was rigged for those years, and the majority of the readership didn't actually agree that they disliked Monsoon? Meltzer might might have had an agenda against the WWF and Monsoon, which came across in his writings, but I wouldn't really call him an idiot for it. The voters, being told again and again and again by him that Monsoon sucked were most likely influenced by him. "Hmm, maybe there is some truth about what Meltzer says about Gorilla..." Not too far-fetched, IMO.
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Post by baronmordo on Jan 12, 2012 12:53:37 GMT -5
Worst announcer ever? Nah. That being said, my opinion on Monsoon is that he falls right in the middle of all commentators. He had some good points, and some points that irritated the hell out of me. At least he wasn't Bartlett or Lord Alfred. Or Bruno-christ, he was AWFUL.
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The OP
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Post by The OP on Jan 12, 2012 12:58:28 GMT -5
Quote from Meltzer The readers thought the same thing. Gordon Solie was the one His readers prefer back then Well, Monsoon was right. It's not his fault WWE didn't have baby faces submit at times. It's not his fault guys weren't hooking the leg. Monsoon gets bashed because he was right? You have guys on commentary who mis call moves, who forget people's names (that Parkour guy), and sure, that gets bashed. But Monsoon calls the match like it's a real sport, makes legit analysis, makes real points, has actual discussions on the basis of the match. Like, he comes off as smart. Personally, I'd rather have the commentator come off as someone who knows what he's talking about, rather then someone who doesn't. While I see room for a valid difference of opinion here, I personally agree with you. If nothing else, I thought Gorilla helped cultivate the right type of atmosphere with his style of commentary.
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Post by FunkerCM on Jan 12, 2012 15:20:23 GMT -5
Meltzer and whoever whined to him obviously forgot Gorilla was a heel who drew money in his day. He was also a wrestler before he got into the business and did not like sloppiness.
He told guys to their faces when they sucked as Bobby Heenan has said in the past and with justification because the guy knew what he was talking about.
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Post by Tyfo on Jan 12, 2012 15:40:12 GMT -5
It was a miscarriage of justice and a Pearl Harbor job on Gorilla.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jan 12, 2012 16:41:55 GMT -5
If a group of people can name Gorilla Monsoon the worst, I think I have the right to call that same group idiots.
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Post by NOwave on Jan 12, 2012 16:46:15 GMT -5
How would you define the "best" or "worst" wrestling announcer? It seems to me that the most entertaining guy and/or the one who the promoter thinks adds the most to the performance should be considered the best.
With that definition, Gorilla Monsoon has to be right up there with the Best in the business. He had one of the largest audiences of all time in the Hulkamania era. He had the unconditional support of his promoter, Vince McMahon.
I liked Gordon Solie, also, and he had a very different style from Gorilla. That doesn't mean he was better or worse. My favorite is still Lance Russell, who melded the Solie-realism style with the Monsoon-over the top-fun style better than anybody i've ever seen. "We gotta get some help out here, Davey!" as the tag match in the ring turned into a brawl that threatened to spill onto the announcers desk. Lance made it feel like the fans at ringside were in actual danger.
JR would be a close second. Listen to the old NWA in the 1980's after the merger with UWF. JR made the matches sound like college football games. You really could see the perspiration drip when a guy missed a fall. You knew what he meant when he described Steve Dr Death Williams as having a Berry Switzer-trained style of aggression. Great stuff.
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Post by Trip Fisk a.k.a. Foley is Good on Jan 12, 2012 18:03:47 GMT -5
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Post by Jacob Lee on Jan 12, 2012 21:02:22 GMT -5
Meltzer hated the WWF in the 1980's and was pretty biased against them. If you get a WO membership you can read the old Observers and pretty easily see this.
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