Gorilla Monsoon as WO's worst announcer

[Andrew is Good]

So, the 2011 Observer awards thread reminded me of this, and I know this was brought up before, but what was the issue with the readers of the Observer with Gorilla Monsoon. Sometimes, you look back at things and sometimes they're not as good as they used to be. That's fine. But I listen to old Gorilla Monsoon commentary, and there seems to be little to nothing wrong with his commentary. I'm trying to get my head around it.

I'm looking online trying to find his reasons. Sometimes he did defend the actions a lot of a baby face, but there were a few times he wouldn't, and he would call the match like he saw it. A match with Tony Atlas and Ted Arcidi on Youtube is a good example of that. I think I read that Jim Ross would talk about they would have to do re-takes because if a guy really sucked, Gorilla would just bury him and they would have to do it again, which is pretty funny I suppose. But, he definitely did a lot to support WWE, especially since there were rumours that Gorilla may've been one of Vince Sr's successors instead of Vince Jr.

Gorilla used a lot of cliches, but there's nothing wrong with that if they're apt. He did overstate things sometimes, but he's trying to help WWE sell their product, and he did that very well. But yeah, why did the readers of the Wrestling Observer vote this guy as the worst announcer for so many years? Did Dave Meltzer have any particular issues with Gorilla? Maybe Gorilla smacked him in his external occipital protuberance.

[The Heenan Family]

That's Meltzer for you. In one of his wrestling tribute books, Meltzer says this about Monsoons commentary.

"Monsoon was not a good wrestling announcer and liked to show off some of his knowledge of body parts, which came across as arrogant to many.."

I guess "to many" means Meltzer. He just hates WWE establishment.

[bestthateverdidit]

maybe dave preferred the more straighr up announcing of jim ross in wcw

[andrew8798]

Quote from Meltzer

"You didn't talk to irate wrestlers in the 80s who hated Monsoon killing their psychology.

These were the complaints I heard over and over:

You put on a submission to get heat and build drama, and he says the babyface will never submit. The worst part about it was--the booking mentality at the time was that top babyfaces never submit. So he's always right, and you waste your time trying to get heat with moves.

You do a near fall and don't hook the leg, and he calls you an idiot for not hooking the leg and teaches the fans not to pop for your near fall when the style you are told to do is only hook the leg for the real finish. The wording was that he is trying to show how smart he is by never selling your near falls, thus hurting your match.

Every kid loves their hometown commentator. Ed Whalen was godawful but when Bret Hart was a little kid, he was the first guy he heard and he still thinks Whalen and JR are the best ever (Bruce, who booked the territory and saw Ed kill his angles, had a 180 degree different opinion). Stu believed Ed was the best ever. There are people in Calgary who to this day think he was the best ever.

I just saw a guy who killed the heat of every heel in the territory. And if you talked with the heels in the territory, they thought the same thing."

The readers thought the same thing. Gordon Solie was the one His readers prefer back then

[wildojinx]

Jan 11, 2012 22:17:15 GMT -5 andrew8798 said:

Quote from Meltzer

"You didn't talk to irate wrestlers in the 80s who hated Monsoon killing their psychology.

These were the complaints I heard over and over:

You put on a submission to get heat and build drama, and he says the babyface will never submit. The worst part about it was--the booking mentality at the time was that top babyfaces never submit. So he's always right, and you waste your time trying to get heat with moves.

You do a near fall and don't hook the leg, and he calls you an idiot for not hooking the leg and teaches the fans not to pop for your near fall when the style you are told to do is only hook the leg for the real finish. The wording was that he is trying to show how smart he is by never selling your near falls, thus hurting your match.

Every kid loves their hometown commentator. Ed Whalen was godawful but when Bret Hart was a little kid, he was the first guy he heard and he still thinks Whalen and JR are the best ever (Bruce, who booked the territory and saw Ed kill his angles, had a 180 degree different opinion). Stu believed Ed was the best ever. There are people in Calgary who to this day think he was the best ever.

I just saw a guy who killed the heat of every heel in the territory. And if you talked with the heels in the territory, they thought the same thing."

The readers thought the same thing. Gordon Solie was the one His readers prefer back then

However, ive seen plenty of announcers (even in nwa) never sell "arrogant" covers (like a wrestler trying to pin a wrestler with their foot on their chest) either.

["Handsome" Whitey Fats]

Cause Monsoon was really shitty at commentary. That's it. He was horrible, and was carried by Heenan

[Tiger Millionaire]

That's why I wipe my arse with the WO and his readers in the 80s. All the jokes we makes about smarks were true then. Yes, this is a blanket statement, but these same type of people would bitch and moan because Patrick Stewart fired a phaser with his left hand not his right.

[The Heenan Family]

Take for instance 1993. Gorilla Monsoon wins worst announcer yet Rob Bartlett doesn't? He spent 4 months making Yokozuna fat jokes and that's about it.

[wildojinx]

Why didnt Bruno ever get picked as worst announcer? As great as bruno was in the ring, he was terrible on the mic. He barely ever had anything substantial to say. Heck, Duke Doherty was better (as least he had personality).

[Andrew is Good]

Jan 11, 2012 22:17:15 GMT -5 andrew8798 said:

Quote from Meltzer

"You didn't talk to irate wrestlers in the 80s who hated Monsoon killing their psychology.

These were the complaints I heard over and over:

You put on a submission to get heat and build drama, and he says the babyface will never submit. The worst part about it was--the booking mentality at the time was that top babyfaces never submit. So he's always right, and you waste your time trying to get heat with moves.

You do a near fall and don't hook the leg, and he calls you an idiot for not hooking the leg and teaches the fans not to pop for your near fall when the style you are told to do is only hook the leg for the real finish. The wording was that he is trying to show how smart he is by never selling your near falls, thus hurting your match.

Every kid loves their hometown commentator. Ed Whalen was godawful but when Bret Hart was a little kid, he was the first guy he heard and he still thinks Whalen and JR are the best ever (Bruce, who booked the territory and saw Ed kill his angles, had a 180 degree different opinion). Stu believed Ed was the best ever. There are people in Calgary who to this day think he was the best ever.

I just saw a guy who killed the heat of every heel in the territory. And if you talked with the heels in the territory, they thought the same thing."

The readers thought the same thing. Gordon Solie was the one His readers prefer back then

Well, Monsoon was right. It's not his fault WWE didn't have baby faces submit at times. It's not his fault guys weren't hooking the leg. Monsoon gets bashed because he was right? You have guys on commentary who mis call moves, who forget people's names (that Parkour guy), and sure, that gets bashed. But Monsoon calls the match like it's a real sport, makes legit analysis, makes real points, has actual discussions on the basis of the match.

Like, he comes off as smart. Personally, I'd rather have the commentator come off as someone who knows what he's talking about, rather then someone who doesn't.

[rnrk supports BLM]

Because Gorilla dared to be funny and entertaining to those filthy marks who don't appreciate that pro wrestling is SERIOUS BUSINESS.

[moneyman20]

Showing knowledge about body parts wasn't "arrogant", he did that as a way to make the match seem more real. Did he call JR arrogant for his time in NWA when he would talk about how near falls were because of "perspiration"?. I'll bet you money he didn't.

It's pretty obvious that Dave Meltzer had an unhealthy anti-WWF bias back then and it's proven here.

[molson5]

I liked him. I still like watching old matches with his announcing on them. I have no idea if he was "good" or not, but I often run into that disconnect.

[Deleted]

So those pointing out that this is an example of Meltzer being an idiot, are you suggesting the voting was rigged for those years, and the majority of the readership didn't actually agree that they disliked Monsoon?

[moneyman20]

Jan 11, 2012 23:42:54 GMT -5 @kudohdriver said:

So those pointing out that this is an example of Meltzer being an idiot, are you suggesting the voting was rigged for those years, and the majority of the readership didn't actually agree that they disliked Monsoon?

No because they were just as big of idiots as he was. Just because his readers voted Gorilla the worst does not mean the general public did nor did it verify Meltzer's opinion.

[andrew8798]

Just because they don't share your opinion that don't make them idiots

[rnrk supports BLM]

Jan 11, 2012 23:42:54 GMT -5 @kudohdriver said:

So those pointing out that this is an example of Meltzer being an idiot, are you suggesting the voting was rigged for those years, and the majority of the readership didn't actually agree that they disliked Monsoon?

No, we're suggesting that the majority of the readership of dirt sheets were (and probably still are), much like Meltzer himself, whiny, arrested-adolescent fanboys with a perverse need to turn up their noses at fans who haven't devoted an unhealthy amount of time towards dissecting their hobby.

[moneyman20]

Jan 11, 2012 23:50:47 GMT -5 andrew8798 said:

Just because they don't share your opinion that don't make them idiots

Okay, I went a little far there when I called them idiots. However, let's not talk like a vote by HIS readers somehow verifies his opinion.

[Mayonnaise]

Jan 11, 2012 23:53:14 GMT -5 rnrk supports BLM said:

Jan 11, 2012 23:42:54 GMT -5 @kudohdriver said:

So those pointing out that this is an example of Meltzer being an idiot, are you suggesting the voting was rigged for those years, and the majority of the readership didn't actually agree that they disliked Monsoon?

No, we're suggesting that the majority of the readership of dirt sheets were (and probably still are), much like Meltzer himself, whiny, arrested-adolescent fanboys with a perverse need to turn up their noses at fans who haven't devoted an unhealthy amount of time towards dissecting their hobby.

Maybe, just maybe, since there are several of us on here that read Meltzer and other news sites, DON'T FLAME THEM.

[andrew8798]

Jan 11, 2012 23:54:27 GMT -5 @moneyman20 said:

Jan 11, 2012 23:50:47 GMT -5 andrew8798 said:

Just because they don't share your opinion that don't make them idiots

Okay, I went a little far there when I called them idiots. However, let's not talk like a vote by HIS readers somehow verifies his opinion.

Also you got to remember people hated the WWF back then. They were big NWA fans.

From reading those back issues I would say the top two people who got the most hate were

1. Vince
2. Dusty