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Post by perpetualn00b on May 3, 2012 5:20:12 GMT -5
Only children and morons fall for pandering characters. Please. People fell for Austin hook, line, and sinker en masse. Hogan became big by pandering to the patriotic. Everyone falls for panderers. They just never see it when they're the target audience.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2012 7:25:01 GMT -5
I've gotta give WWE alot of credit for their recent booking of Cena, having him lose to the Rock because of a slip up he made by being non srs joker Cena which all the smarks hate to having him look vunerable as f*** in the Lesnar match, it's payed off too as crowds are getting a fair bit less anti-cena.
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on May 3, 2012 13:21:44 GMT -5
One of the best things about Cena's character is that he doesn't care that people boo him, and that at times he goes out of his way to aggravate the more vocal haters. My favorite example of this was at Wrestlemania XXVI. After he beats Batista for the title, he walks over to a group of guys with "I hate Cena" shirts on, turns to face the camera, leans back and holds up the belt right in the middle of them.
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HBL
Unicron
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Post by HBL on May 3, 2012 13:35:49 GMT -5
One of the best things about Cena's character is that he doesn't care that people boo him, and that at times he goes out of his way to aggravate the more vocal haters. My favorite example of this was at Wrestlemania XXVI. After he beats Batista for the title, he walks over to a group of guys with "I hate Cena" shirts on, turns to face the camera, leans back and holds up the belt right in the middle of them. Best trollface ever.
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Spec_Sun
Trap-Jaw
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Post by Spec_Sun on May 3, 2012 13:46:38 GMT -5
I don't have a beef with anyone who smiles in context...... what I disdain are people who smile for no damn reason whatsoever. Even after getting his arse kicked at Extreme Rules, Cena came out to the ring smiling from ear to ear barely selling that beatdown he received from Lesnar. Things like that are my biggest beefs with John Cena. I'm starting to respect his in-ring ability more, but the character? Nah, not one bit at all.
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Post by salsashark on May 3, 2012 14:55:25 GMT -5
Only children and morons fall for pandering characters. Please. People fell for Austin hook, line, and sinker en masse. Hogan became big by pandering to the patriotic. Everyone falls for panderers. They just never see it when they're the target audience. Excellent, excellent point. What do you think "Give me a hell yeah!" and The Rock waiting for the audience to finish his sentences were? Pandering -- just the kind of pandering some people prefer. As for me, I've become a big Cena fan in the last year-ish. Honestly, even though I'm a big Wade fan, I never really cared for the Nexus and thought they were a pretty lame faction after their first few appearances, so I'm glad Cena tore right through 'em. Also, I was truly rooting for Cena during the recent feud with the Rock, and I've started to appreciate his smart-ass promos. He feels like such a real character to me because instead of turning heel easily, he has his convictions. He makes an excellent juxtaposition to CM Punk.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on May 3, 2012 18:45:15 GMT -5
Please. People fell for Austin hook, line, and sinker en masse. Hogan became big by pandering to the patriotic. Everyone falls for panderers. They just never see it when they're the target audience. Excellent, excellent point. What do you think "Give me a hell yeah!" and The Rock waiting for the audience to finish his sentences were? Pandering -- just the kind of pandering some people prefer. As for me, I've become a big Cena fan in the last year-ish. Honestly, even though I'm a big Wade fan, I never really cared for the Nexus and thought they were a pretty lame faction after their first few appearances, so I'm glad Cena tore right through 'em. Also, I was truly rooting for Cena during the recent feud with the Rock, and I've started to appreciate his smart-ass promos. He feels like such a real character to me because instead of turning heel easily, he has his convictions. He makes an excellent juxtaposition to CM Punk. That's part of the reason why I never liked Austin or the Rock. Because their style of pandering, just grated on me. Steve Austin would never have stopped what he was doing if he got a hell no after all. So he was obviously just playing the crowd. Pandering should at least seem plausibly believable after all.
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Post by MichaelMartini on May 3, 2012 22:14:57 GMT -5
Only children and morons fall for pandering characters. Please. People fell for Austin hook, line, and sinker en masse. Hogan became big by pandering to the patriotic. Everyone falls for panderers. They just never see it when they're the target audience. I get what your saying. WWE ultimately turns guys into the pandering types once they get over. Austin originally got over by being the ultimate not giving a crap bad ass. Attacking everyone. DTA. He was the exact opposite of the pandering type. They added the hell yeah stuff later on, and even that is not pandering. He's only seeing if the audience wants to see him do what he's going to do anyway. Later he got over again by being a paranoid crazy person. ' Hogan isn't a pandering character either. His 80's character was a patriot and fed off the crowd. He did it for the Hulkamaniacs. His fans. It's not pandering because we know the guys ego is huge. Of course he's going to love the people that love him. It's a subtle but massive difference. Cena panders because like mentioned earlier, he tries to get every demographic to like him by trying to appeal to whatever they like. He's not saying "like me" like he used to when he would talk about the chain gang, he's always trying to name drop something else the audience might like. Take Raw for instance. He names drops Zeus, obviously trying to appeal to the older wrestling fan as his target demo wasn't even born when Zeus had his run. Even the majority of people here weren't born yet, or babies. Basically what I'm saying is there's a difference between self promotion (Hogan, Rock, Austin, Foley, Warrior, HHH, etc) and pandering (Cena - I'd name more but I honestly can't think of a guy that tries as desperately to get everyone to like him as him)
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on May 3, 2012 22:27:50 GMT -5
Cena's no different than any of them and it's pretty obvious he doesn't care if everyone likes him. You're just flat wrong here
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Post by MichaelMartini on May 3, 2012 23:11:02 GMT -5
Cena's no different than any of them and it's pretty obvious he doesn't care if everyone likes him. You're just flat wrong here Care to give some examples of Cena not caring what the audience thinks of him? The only thing I can think of are the times he trolled the haters but that would make them like him since he gave them attention and immortalized them on camera. I did think of another pandering guy as bad as Cena. Lex Luger during the Lex express days and the current midcard babyface that's always smiling, slapping hand and "loves to have fun!"
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Post by perpetualn00b on May 4, 2012 3:12:26 GMT -5
Austin originally got over by being the ultimate not giving a crap bad ass. Attacking everyone. DTA. He was the exact opposite of the pandering type. I'm cutting your post short because this is at the core: the bolded part is absolutely wrong. The "not give a crap badass" is a textbook example of pandering. Stone Cold came about int he mid-90s, a point in time where the shallow grimdark antihero had been firmly established as the "heroic" (for lack of a better term) archetype for the decade. And we just so happen to get a shallow grimdark antihero as the next big thing? Please. It worked, because pop culture wasn't as fractured as it is now, but it was by far a more concerted, focused attempt at pandering to the wider audience (or wider potential audience, as the case turned out) then Cena shows. I won't go into the details, but Hogan took the same path, riding the last sustained wave of American patriotism in the 80s. Cena genuinely feels more real then either Austin or Hogan did, because his "pandering" is so eccentric and schizophrenic that I cannot pick out an actual audience he's consistently targeting, nor a social phenomenon/archetype that he's trying to emulate. Manufacturing tends to produce something more streamlined and focused.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on May 4, 2012 4:54:14 GMT -5
Cena's no different than any of them and it's pretty obvious he doesn't care if everyone likes him. You're just flat wrong here Care to give some examples of Cena not caring what the audience thinks of him? The only thing I can think of are the times he trolled the haters but that would make them like him since he gave them attention and immortalized them on camera. I did think of another pandering guy as bad as Cena. Lex Luger during the Lex express days and the current midcard babyface that's always smiling, slapping hand and "loves to have fun!" or it might make them dislike him because intelligent people don't like being mocked
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SAJ Forth
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Post by SAJ Forth on May 4, 2012 10:39:58 GMT -5
Why do I get the feeling soon people will care about him again? This is how hating him started.
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on May 4, 2012 10:49:07 GMT -5
Cena's no different than any of them and it's pretty obvious he doesn't care if everyone likes him. You're just flat wrong here Care to give some examples of Cena not caring what the audience thinks of him? The only thing I can think of are the times he trolled the haters but that would make them like him since he gave them attention and immortalized them on camera. I did think of another pandering guy as bad as Cena. Lex Luger during the Lex express days and the current midcard babyface that's always smiling, slapping hand and "loves to have fun!" How about everytime he flat out says he doesn't care if you boo him or cheer him? Cena haters will always believe what they do and there is no way to change their minds.
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SAJ Forth
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Post by SAJ Forth on May 4, 2012 17:41:12 GMT -5
It feels weird now that every Cena feud seems to involve him as flagwaver or how the crowd is divided.
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DragonMasterP
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Post by DragonMasterP on May 4, 2012 17:59:34 GMT -5
It feels weird now that every Cena feud seems to involve him as flagwaver or how the crowd is divided. Hence why some people think his act has gotten stale.
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