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Post by Insomniac on Dec 10, 2011 15:25:32 GMT -5
Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe is saying that David West to Boston is pretty much dependent upon the Chris Paul trade. So if Celtics fans want West, hope that LA gets Paul.
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Post by wcw on Dec 10, 2011 15:30:22 GMT -5
It's complicated. Small-market teams like the Hornets are basically f***ed. They might as well not even bother drafting top talent. Because star players want to play (a) with other star players or (b) play in big markets like NY or LA. When you draft a perennial all-star and you're in Memphis or Milwaukee, what happens once their contract expires and they want to partner up with a couple of their buddies in Brooklyn or with the Lakers? But you can't blame the players either. They have the right to choose where they want to play after they fulfilled their contractual obligations in their rookie contract. If I wanted to play for the Mavericks or the Celtics, I have every right to go there under the condition that they can sign me under the cap or do a sign-and-trade with my current squad. But you can't blame the owners either. If you have a HOF-caliber talent, he sells tickets. He's the face of your organization. You don't want to give that up for a couple of benchwarmers, draft picks and other spare parts. The issue here is Chris Paul wants to play with either the Lakers or the Knicks. It forces New Orleans to deal with only two options. Rumor is that the Clippers and the Warriors both had offers out for CP3 that were arguably better than the Lakers one, but couldn't take the deal because CP3 said he won't re-up with either squad. So now what do the Hornets do? Force to take a trade that basically takes on significantly more salary and simultaneously stunts your team's potential? Nothing about this deal puts the Hornets any closer to title contention than they were 24 hours ago. They're handcuffed. As for Paul, he wants his cake and eat it too. He wants to play for the Lakers or the Knicks and he's gonna want the max deal. Only way he gets it is through the Hornets. Is he willing to forego potentially 20 to 30 million dollars to sign straight up with either of these teams? I don't know too many people that would. Should he be forced to stay in New Orleans just for the bigger contract and a team that probably won't contend for a title? As for Stern, I said to anyone willing to listen that he was on borrowed time. I even suggested that one of the caveats of the new CBA deal would be for him to step down as commissioner. But he's also kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place here. The NBA owns the Hornets. Which complicates ANY trade involving CP3 no matter the location. They probably would want him veto a deal with the Knicks too. Bottom line, this is a situation where NOBODY comes out looking good. The problem with the NBA is the salary floor is too high and that small market owners don't get the idea of how to be effective. If the NBA had a lower salary floor lets say 34 million (The cap is 58 million). That means teams could leave 24 million in cap space at any point in time. Thus the blueprint for NBA teams to rebuild could go as this. 1- Purge the team of all Huge contracts. Get anything of value for the players you have in terms of draft choices and prospects. 2- Prepare to tank for 2-5 seasons. Thus any un-tradeable contracts get off the books and you are bad enough to get high draft choices to land a superstar player. As opposed to trying to be a late playoff seed or build around a team going nowhere. Also as you tank seasons the ability to have a low payroll will minimize losses. 3- Once you land a superstar in the top five of the NBA draft you need to build around them. Likely you will still have a couple of lottery picks the season or two after you draft that Durant, Howard, Paul, James, type player. 4- Once you have a young core of players (Like OKC does now) you have the ability to go out and use that 20+ million in cap room you have been holding on to for years. Thus you can acquire a couple pieces around a superstar type player. The Chris Paul's and Lebron James or the world aren't leaving places like Cleveland and New Orleans because they want to play in a big market (Players spend most of the off-season in places they like anyway). They are leaving because their teams aren't building enough of a winner around them. And a big reason for that is because they are forced to spend 85% and soon to be 90% on inflated contracts to meet the salary floor. If Cleveland had 20+ million in cap space after the 07 season they could have found a good player to give a max deal to in order to help James. The NBAPA props up the middle order of their membership with a steep cap floor and max contracts. But then once middle ownership can't build around their stars properly the stars collude their way out to a better situation. The NBA is messed up and this lockout barely did anything.
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Post by wcw on Dec 10, 2011 15:41:52 GMT -5
Watch, it'll have one more draft pick going to New Orleans and Stern will justify approving it over that. He got castrated publicly and he's changing his mind. You know what though if NO got an extra first from LA and Stern simply said he changed his mind. I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. People make mistakes and its tough to simply say hey I was wrong I was pressured into a wrong decision. The deal was a fair deal for the Hornets. And this idea that somehow LA could get a deal for Howard simply with Bynum and picks is laughable. NJ/Brooklyn will be able to offer a much better deal. Brook Lopez and Bynum are about equal. But NJ could take Hedo's contract and give up better draft picks. LA wouldn't be able to intake a contract as bad as Hedo's. Please make a case that the Paul deal was unfair.
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Objection!
Don Corleone
Objecting just because I can.
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Objection! on Dec 10, 2011 15:47:51 GMT -5
Watch, it'll have one more draft pick going to New Orleans and Stern will justify approving it over that. He got castrated publicly and he's changing his mind. Please make a case that the Paul deal was unfair. I thought it was unfair to the Rockets TBH. They seemed to be giving up loads for Gasol.
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Post by MGH on Dec 10, 2011 15:49:22 GMT -5
Watch, it'll have one more draft pick going to New Orleans and Stern will justify approving it over that. He got castrated publicly and he's changing his mind. You know what though if NO got an extra first from LA and Stern simply said he changed his mind. I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. People make mistakes and its tough to simply say hey I was wrong I was pressured into a wrong decision. The deal was a fair deal for the Hornets. And this idea that somehow LA could get a deal for Howard simply with Bynum and picks is laughable. NJ/Brooklyn will be able to offer a much better deal. Brook Lopez and Bynum are about equal. But NJ could take Hedo's contract and give up better draft picks. LA wouldn't be able to intake a contract as bad as Hedo's. Please make a case that the Paul deal was unfair. I'm not complaining about the deal. It hurts the Lakers unless they get Dwight. New Orleans is getting more back than I thought they would. Deal was fine to me the first time. I just think it's funny how Stern is buckling like a pussy when it should have never come to this in the first place.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,976
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Post by BRV on Dec 10, 2011 16:05:06 GMT -5
Please make a case that the Paul deal was unfair. Lamar Odom has two years and $17 million remaining on his contract. He turns 32 years old this season, so he's no spring chicken. He's a fine sixth man, and a serviceable starter, but by no means is he the trade chip that the Lakers' front office was making him out to be. Kevin Martin has two years and $23 million remaining on his contract. Much like Odom, he's a fine enough player, but he's not the centerpiece to a trade in which you're losing your franchise player, which is precisely what he would have been had this deal gone down. Luis Scola has four years and nearly $40 million remaining on his contract. Despite the fact that he has only four years of service in the NBA, he's about to turn 31 years old, so his peak athletic ability has come and gone. Goran Dragic is the only player with an expiring contract in this deal, and he'd be called upon to replace Chris Paul as New Orleans' starting point guard. No easy shakes for anyone in the league, but Dragic is nothing special. He's league-average at best. The Hornets received only one expiring contract, no legitimate prospects and only one draft pick (which will be somewhere in the 16-25 range). The deals they left on the table from Golden State, Boston and the Clippers were all substantially better offers than what was accepted on Thursday afternoon. "Unfair" might not be the word I'd use, but it's simply a terrible trade, and that's before we get to how bad Houston was fleeced.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2011 16:58:43 GMT -5
Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard Initially, Hou part of deal was same - Scola, Martin & pick going to NO & Pau to Hou. Now, at NBA/NO's request, Hou sending out more players
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comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,899
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Post by comahan on Dec 10, 2011 17:03:42 GMT -5
Ugh. Who now? Patterson? Morris? Hill?
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,976
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Post by BRV on Dec 10, 2011 17:12:02 GMT -5
How in the world have they determined that Houston is the one giving away too little? It basically works out to Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, Goran Dragic and a 2012 first-round pick for Pau Gasol. Now they need to give up more?
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comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,899
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Post by comahan on Dec 10, 2011 17:26:21 GMT -5
Eh the 1st is pointless. It'll be a late 1st, and those are completely useless 95% of the time.
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stealthamo
King Koopa
Something stupid
#AJAll
Posts: 11,247
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Post by stealthamo on Dec 10, 2011 18:41:49 GMT -5
Per Adrian Wojnarowski, Dwight Howard has requested a trade to the Nets.
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Post by wcw on Dec 10, 2011 19:30:28 GMT -5
Please make a case that the Paul deal was unfair. Lamar Odom has two years and $17 million remaining on his contract. He turns 32 years old this season, so he's no spring chicken. He's a fine sixth man, and a serviceable starter, but by no means is he the trade chip that the Lakers' front office was making him out to be. Kevin Martin has two years and $23 million remaining on his contract. Much like Odom, he's a fine enough player, but he's not the centerpiece to a trade in which you're losing your franchise player, which is precisely what he would have been had this deal gone down. Luis Scola has four years and nearly $40 million remaining on his contract. Despite the fact that he has only four years of service in the NBA, he's about to turn 31 years old, so his peak athletic ability has come and gone. Goran Dragic is the only player with an expiring contract in this deal, and he'd be called upon to replace Chris Paul as New Orleans' starting point guard. No easy shakes for anyone in the league, but Dragic is nothing special. He's league-average at best. The Hornets received only one expiring contract, no legitimate prospects and only one draft pick (which will be somewhere in the 16-25 range). The deals they left on the table from Golden State, Boston and the Clippers were all substantially better offers than what was accepted on Thursday afternoon. "Unfair" might not be the word I'd use, but it's simply a terrible trade, and that's before we get to how bad Houston was fleeced. Not saying it was equal value. But it wasn't unfair, NO got something for Paul which is better than what Cleveland got for Lebron. I would say Kevin Martin is a pretty good player (23 ppg last season), Odom and Scola are above average starters. They got a pick and an expiring contract. The Lakers gave up their starting PF who is an All Star and their Sixth Man who could start on most teams. They didn't give up Kwame Brown and 2 1st round picks.
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
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Post by Lancers on Dec 10, 2011 20:17:07 GMT -5
The problem with the NBA is the salary floor is too high and that small market owners don't get the idea of how to be effective. If the NBA had a lower salary floor lets say 34 million (The cap is 58 million). That means teams could leave 24 million in cap space at any point in time. Thus the blueprint for NBA teams to rebuild could go as this. I agree on this. I don't like how high the salary floor is. It almost encourages team to overpay or take on bigger contracts in trades to reach a certain level. OKC is the template that every single GM should take note. Portland was on the right track, but unfortunately the cornerstones (Roy and Oden) had injury problems that both could never shake off and thus hindered the team's positive track forward. I honestly believe if they stayed healthy, the Blazers might be where the Mavs were last year. They were that promising circa 2007. I have to disagree with you on this one. Big time FA's weren't signing with Sacramento or Charlotte or Milwaukee during those franchise's heydays. And I never heard a peep about guys like LBJ and Wade even considering markets that were not in LA, NY, Florida or Texas. Agreed. The lockout was pointless. Utterly pointless. We just lost two months of the season and we're still seeing basketball discussion about the same things we thought would be amended.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Dec 10, 2011 20:59:33 GMT -5
All these years it bugged me as to who I thought Hugh Jackman reminded me of.
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Objection!
Don Corleone
Objecting just because I can.
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Objection! on Dec 10, 2011 21:04:32 GMT -5
I'm looking at the possibilities here...anyone else think a Howard to Boston deal could happen.
I think if the C's part with Rondo and Green and are willing to take on a contract the Magic don't want, it just might.
Thoughts? Or am I just crazy?
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Post by Cyno on Dec 10, 2011 21:07:55 GMT -5
Sounds like Mike Bibby is heading to the Knicks. Probably a good mentor for Shumpert.
Also the Knicks got rid of Turiaf and ...some other guy in the moves to get Chandler. Turiaf's going to be on the Wizards.
This is shaping up to be the best Knicks day since the days of Ewing, Starks, Mason, and Oakley.
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Dec 10, 2011 23:26:24 GMT -5
Ugh. Who now? Patterson? Morris? Hill? Keep Pat Patterson in Houston.
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Unocal 76
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Providing The Finest Oil
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Post by Unocal 76 on Dec 10, 2011 23:58:33 GMT -5
@espnsteinline CP3 Trade Latest: Sources say Lakers have pulled out three-team trade for Chris Paul
Sources say Lakers will instead trade Lamar Odom to Dallas into Mavericks' new trade exception
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Post by MGH on Dec 11, 2011 0:00:30 GMT -5
Well ... that happened then. Dwight reportedly is now asking to go to Jersey/Brooklyn, and they aren't going to get Paul. So what, they're last year's team with no Lamar Odom then?
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Post by MGH on Dec 11, 2011 0:05:46 GMT -5
WojYahooNBA Lakers and Hornets won't pursue a direct deal for Chris Paul either, source says. "L.A. can't give them what they need," source says.
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