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Post by Threadkiller [Classic] on Sept 27, 2011 1:32:36 GMT -5
I absolutely adored Shane Douglas as a kid watching ECW. The guy could work his ass off, and could cut an amazing promo, and though his work is a little less than I remember now that I'm watching ECW on Classics On Demand, his promos are absolutely still first rank stuff.
I always wanted it for him, but by the time he got another shot in the big two (in WCW in 99-2000), it just wasn't going to happen, nor should it have, since he was past his prime by then.
Just wanted to come in here and say that I'll always be a mark for THE FRANCHISE.
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Post by Big Evil on Sept 27, 2011 1:54:55 GMT -5
I absolutely adored Shane Douglas as a kid watching ECW. The guy could work his ass off, and could cut an amazing promo, and though his work is a little less than I remember now that I'm watching ECW on Classics On Demand, his promos are absolutely still first rank stuff. I always wanted it for him, but by the time he got another shot in the big two (in WCW in 99-2000), it just wasn't going to happen, nor should it have, since he was past his prime by then. Just wanted to come in here and say that I'll always be a mark for THE FRANCHISE. You and I may be the only two on the entire board.
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Post by repomanfan on Sept 27, 2011 4:03:13 GMT -5
I absolutely adored Shane Douglas as a kid watching ECW. The guy could work his ass off, and could cut an amazing promo, and though his work is a little less than I remember now that I'm watching ECW on Classics On Demand, his promos are absolutely still first rank stuff. I always wanted it for him, but by the time he got another shot in the big two (in WCW in 99-2000), it just wasn't going to happen, nor should it have, since he was past his prime by then. Just wanted to come in here and say that I'll always be a mark for THE FRANCHISE. You and I may be the only two on the entire board. The board is smarter than I thought.
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Post by barthelemykaras on Sept 27, 2011 9:06:09 GMT -5
I absolutely adored Shane Douglas as a kid watching ECW. The guy could work his ass off, and could cut an amazing promo, and though his work is a little less than I remember now that I'm watching ECW on Classics On Demand, his promos are absolutely still first rank stuff. I always wanted it for him, but by the time he got another shot in the big two (in WCW in 99-2000), it just wasn't going to happen, nor should it have, since he was past his prime by then. Just wanted to come in here and say that I'll always be a mark for THE FRANCHISE. Amen to that, brother. It's sad too see The Franchise get so little love. His ECW work is great, he's one of the guys I always associate with being the best in ECW right off the bat. For me, he is one of best went it comes to balancing in-ring ability with mic skills. It's a shame he wasn't the same after his final run in the company though. I will always be a Franchise Mark as well.
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Post by angryfan on Sept 27, 2011 9:36:54 GMT -5
I will admit that my personal dealings with the man soured me on him, as he was a "I'm IMORTANT" jackbag to those of us working the same show he was. However, that dealing did give me a bit of insight that I think I understand.
He was damn solid in the ring, could sell and bump very well. What's more, he knew when to do things to make them important. Technically sound without being overly flashy. On the mic, he could be very, very good, but when he phoned it in it was obvious. Everybody has those promos, so no crime or anything, just something I noticed.
Where I find his downfall is that he was not the performer he saw himself to be. He had a good look, in ring skill, and could talk but he didn't come off as THE guy, which I think he always saw himsefl as. Confidence can take you a long way, but it's no guarantee.
Honestly, Shane, to me, is a better version of Jeff Jarrett, anothaer guy who is talented in multiple aspects but just isnt' what he thinks he is.
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Post by Threadkiller [Classic] on Sept 27, 2011 14:49:18 GMT -5
Big Evil, barthelemykaras, and myself = new Triple Threat *Holds up the fingers*
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Sept 27, 2011 15:03:58 GMT -5
Austin was good friends with Nash and Hall, and besides that, Austin debuted in December 1995. Hall was suspended by February '96 and both he and Nash were gone by May. And not saying they held Austin down, but hey, when did Austin's push begin? Oh, oh yeah, June '96. The KLIQ ran the WWF. They've said it themselves, if they didn't like someone, they made sure they didn't stick around. PCO, Chris Candido, Shane Douglas, Bam Bam Bigelow, and an array of others. As far as the Flair stuff, read my post again, I said that was more Shane's fault than anyone else's. Dude the grammar is killing me. Not being a dick but it took me 2 minutes to read that all the way through. And XPW? You serious bro? Who gives a s*** about XPW. XPW isn't even the smallest blip on the radar of the history of pro wrestling, and whether he was their World Champion or some one else, it wouldn't matter. Jarrett was Russo's buddy, and very talented. Booker was a locker room favorite, a tenured member, and very talented. Shane was talented, and he didn't have much else going for him backstage. Nothing bad, but nothing great. He was a pretty big part of the New Blood angle, too. So I don't know where you're getting some of this information from. I refuse to debate anything about in TNA because TNA is where careers go to die with very few exceptions. Not to mention, Douglas went to TNA in 2003, 20 years after starting wrestling, and he wasn't in the best of condition. He became very injury prone and the pill addiction developed. Not an excuse, it's what really happened. And then his "last chance" with Daniels? In 2009? Even I knew that was a bad idea because it was 200-f***ing-9. Never said it wasn't. Because as stated numerous times in this thread, he's burned his bridges with WWE, and that's his own fault. The only thing I didn't blame on Shane when it came to his WWF run was the fact that the KLIQ took part in screwing him, and they even admitted it. Shane had a bad falling out with Vince McMahon, then publicly lambasted the company for the past 15 years, not to mention, the whole One Night Stand/Hardcore Homecoming debacle. I'm really trying to be civil here, I swear to god, but I'm surprised I was able to make it to the end of this post with the grammar, bro. You're speaking like you're some kind of an insider (at least in your mind) when instead you're coming off foolish. I never said that Shane Douglas was this perfect, model human being. Just as much as he's been screwed by politics, he's been the one to cause the drama himself. Again, nobody gave or gives a s*** about XPW, nor will they ever when it comes to people who matter in the pro wrestling business. XPW was nothing. And the Hardcore Homecoming shows were actually all pretty successful, so again, check your facts before you decide to go on a grammatically incorrect rant, bud. First off, I only brought up XPW because after WCW and ECW went down. That was the only place he was able to sick around at. Your right nobody cares about XPW and it was nothing. But Shane was a booker there and booked himself like HHH. And at the time was the only place that really booked him. I never said that Hardcore Homecoming wasn't successful. He did it because he burned his bridge with WWE. What I'm saying is Shane was never that talented to be the big Fish in the big leagues. Yes his ECW work was good and he is a big part of that companies history. But everything he did there was most of the time basiced on being angry with everyone else. But even with the politics. Russo didn't push him. You think if anybody saw MEer in the big leagues with him. In 00 would have been that time. When guys like Booker T, Steiner,and Jarrett where getting the shots. He was there feuding with guys like Hugh Morris and Kidman. I mean Russo was a guy at the time wanting new faces on top and Not Hogan, Nash, Sting, and ext. Shane best was US champion and Tag titles with Bagwell.
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Post by Big Evil on Sept 27, 2011 18:08:57 GMT -5
[quote author=steinerecliner board=wrestling thread=385716 I mean Russo was a guy at the time wanting new faces on top and Not Hogan, Nash, Sting, and ext. Shane best was US champion and Tag titles with Bagwell. [/quote]
And what's wrong with that? Not everyone has to be World Champion. And honestly? Even though I love Shane, I don't think I could've ever bought him as World Champion in any other promotion but ECW (out of the big 3). His US Title run was good and was only going to get better but the new booking committee cut it off at the knees. The tag run was transitional during the beginning of the New Blood era so that really didn't do anything for me. Plus, Bagwell was never a great wrestler, and after his neck injury '98, he became GOD AWFUL in the ring.
There's an unrelated topic: After 1998, Buff Bagwell might've been one of the worst wrestlers in the world. So bad.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Sept 27, 2011 19:18:25 GMT -5
I mean Russo was a guy at the time wanting new faces on top and Not Hogan, Nash, Sting, and ext. Shane best was US champion and Tag titles with Bagwell. And what's wrong with that? Not everyone has to be World Champion. That's very true. The problem is that's not what we're talking about. The thread title is "Why did Shane Douglas never make it big?", not "Why did Shane Douglas never make it as a solid mid-card hand in a dying company?".
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Post by DJ Maniak on Sept 27, 2011 19:55:15 GMT -5
Big Evil, barthelemykaras, and myself = new Triple Threat *Holds up the fingers* I'm in too, now we're the New Revolution. Always liked Douglas' promo and technical ability, shame his ego and burned bridges pretty much shelved his career. He's doing very well in my SVR11 Universe though. :-D
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2011 20:20:26 GMT -5
He's his own worst enemy and nowhere near the talent that he thought that he was.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Sept 27, 2011 20:34:30 GMT -5
[quote author=steinerecliner board=wrestling thread=385716 I mean Russo was a guy at the time wanting new faces on top and Not Hogan, Nash, Sting, and ext. Shane best was US champion and Tag titles with Bagwell. And what's wrong with that? Not everyone has to be World Champion. And honestly? Even though I love Shane, I don't think I could've ever bought him as World Champion in any other promotion but ECW (out of the big 3). His US Title run was good and was only going to get better but the new booking committee cut it off at the knees. The tag run was transitional during the beginning of the New Blood era so that really didn't do anything for me. Plus, Bagwell was never a great wrestler, and after his neck injury '98, he became GOD AWFUL in the ring. There's an unrelated topic: After 1998, Buff Bagwell might've been one of the worst wrestlers in the world. So bad.[/quote] I never said there was anything wrong with it. It pointing out what the topic is about. Why Shane never made it big. To be big you have to ME or at less be in the World title picture or at less been that over as a top supporting to the World Champion He did not do so in any other company but ECW. Which is what where talking about. Shane was never in WCW or WWE the difference maker. For example How long was The Undertaker not in the title picture? He has several years in between them. But his role was still a major one. Scott Hall from Razor Ramon on. He was not always ME but was big. Shane was never that kind of guy. He was a good US champion but hardly anybody care what he did. BUt fans cared about what Taker did or Hall as under card guys. Bagwell was terrible since his neck. So if Shane was that good. Why was he given that guy as a partner? So WCW creative didn't see anything in him either. Only ECW saw Shane as a star which worked for them. But ECW was more of a cult following that only attented for a curtain kind of viewers. As in adults. Which is fine for them. Shane is basicly the big fish on a small pond in ECW. But in WWE or WCW Shane is still a big fish in an Ocean full of Great Whites.
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Post by Big Evil on Sept 28, 2011 3:30:16 GMT -5
And what's wrong with that? Not everyone has to be World Champion. That's very true. The problem is that's not what we're talking about. The thread title is "Why did Shane Douglas never make it big?", not "Why did Shane Douglas never make it as a solid mid-card hand in a dying company?". Uh, did I say it was? He addressed the fact that Shane wasn't World Champion material, and I had a rebuttal for it. Read the whole discussion before jumping into the mix, man.
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Post by Big Evil on Sept 28, 2011 3:40:27 GMT -5
Sure, by public opinion, that is what you need to make it big. But let me ask you, would you then consider Owen Hart having "not made it"? He only had a handful of World Title shots and was never in the Main Event scene, really. Upper midcard, at best. But he was one of the greatest of all-time. Same with Dean Malenko, Bobby Eaton, 2 Cold Scorpio, Dustin Rhodes, Rick Rude (let's be honest), and there's others. Just because you're not one of the main draws or the World Champion doesn't mean you haven't made it. If your opinion is that Shane isn't one of the greatest of all-time because of those factors, then that is fine. That is your opinion, and I have no right to change it. And it's not an awful opinion, it's what you think. Shane is one of my favorites of all-time, easily. So I'm not going to sit here and go "Oh, Shane is a colossal failure, never amounted to anything and couldn't do well in WWF." And why should I?
I responded to this with the above answer.
Because Bagwell was a tenured employee, a popular employee, a popular wrestler, and a favorite of Vince Russo. So, in turn, he put Shane Douglas with one of his favorites. Not to mention, Russo (again, who was in charge at the time, like it or not) has said numerous times how much he loved Shane and how Shane was one of his favorites.
Yes, it is, you're right, I was never debating that.
Again, agreed. I've agreed with this sentiment numerous times throughout the topic. I think what the problem here is, while we are having a legitimate conversation instead of a flame war (which, all due respect, I love this and am not used to around here since everytime I debate it ends up turning into a flame war, so thank you), but what I think the problem here is you are not the biggest fan of Shane Douglas, you view him as a glorified midcarder, and are not happy unless everyone else (namely me) views him as such.
That's not going to happen. Once more, Shane Douglas is one of my favorite wrestlers ever. I'd easily say he's top 15, if not top 10 for me personally. That's not going to change. I've had more people than you try to sway me differently over the years, and it's never worked. I've recently reviewed all of WCW for another board, and I'm in the midst of reviewing all of ECW (up to half way through '98) and it's done nothing but make me even a bigger fan of the Franchise than I already was. If you can't accept that, then oh well. Hopefully you get my point here.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Sept 28, 2011 21:38:19 GMT -5
Sure, by public opinion, that is what you need to make it big. But let me ask you, would you then consider Owen Hart having "not made it"? He only had a handful of World Title shots and was never in the Main Event scene, really. Upper midcard, at best. But he was one of the greatest of all-time. Same with Dean Malenko, Bobby Eaton, 2 Cold Scorpio, Dustin Rhodes, Rick Rude (let's be honest), and there's others. Just because you're not one of the main draws or the World Champion doesn't mean you haven't made it. If your opinion is that Shane isn't one of the greatest of all-time because of those factors, then that is fine. That is your opinion, and I have no right to change it. And it's not an awful opinion, it's what you think. Shane is one of my favorites of all-time, easily. So I'm not going to sit here and go "Oh, Shane is a colossal failure, never amounted to anything and couldn't do well in WWF." And why should I? I responded to this with the above answer. Because Bagwell was a tenured employee, a popular employee, a popular wrestler, and a favorite of Vince Russo. So, in turn, he put Shane Douglas with one of his favorites. Not to mention, Russo (again, who was in charge at the time, like it or not) has said numerous times how much he loved Shane and how Shane was one of his favorites. Yes, it is, you're right, I was never debating that. Again, agreed. I've agreed with this sentiment numerous times throughout the topic. I think what the problem here is, while we are having a legitimate conversation instead of a flame war (which, all due respect, I love this and am not used to around here since everytime I debate it ends up turning into a flame war, so thank you), but what I think the problem here is you are not the biggest fan of Shane Douglas, you view him as a glorified midcarder, and are not happy unless everyone else (namely me) views him as such. That's not going to happen. Once more, Shane Douglas is one of my favorite wrestlers ever. I'd easily say he's top 15, if not top 10 for me personally. That's not going to change. I've had more people than you try to sway me differently over the years, and it's never worked. I've recently reviewed all of WCW for another board, and I'm in the midst of reviewing all of ECW (up to half way through '98) and it's done nothing but make me even a bigger fan of the Franchise than I already was. If you can't accept that, then oh well. Hopefully you get my point here. Well the whole topic is why Shane didn't make it big. Others where making points at him as midcard champion. I never said there was a problem with it. My view is simplely why I think Shane didn't make it big. Nothing to do not making it at all. Which yes he did MAKE IT. But didn't make it BIG. Owen was in the upper Midcard. Sometimes MEed. Yes all those guys named make it. But they where not big. Which is what where talking about here. Rude was a MEer at one point. When he was holding the "big Gold Belt" but they didn't call him World Champion. He had nothing but MEers facing him. Even Flair. Rude IMO made it big because he held such a huge role in WCW and WWE. Was he World Champion? No. But he was still facing ME talent and was a top heel. Behind Vader in the earily 90s when Flair was off in WWE land. He was it. But where not talking about Rude or anybody else. Shane role in the WWE and WCW was yes me made. But didn't make it big. But he played his role well. I'm not a big Shane fans. Your right about that and I'm not trying to change anybody mind about him. All I was trying to do is make points on why I feel he didn't make it "big". Because my opinion was is that he wasn't that good in the bigger leagues.
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Post by clashofchampains on Oct 4, 2011 5:57:21 GMT -5
It's easy to say he wasn't talented enough that's why he wasn't a big star in the big feds. But for those who saw him in his last days of his early 90s WCW run, he was just on the verge of becoming a star. He had the hit factor. Maybe all he needed was a heel turn and he was set to become the next big one and given his style at least sort of become the quintessential WCW talent for the futur. God knows it was difficult to make it in WCW at that time, just ask Steve Austin. So he left.
Afterwards, I guess promoters saw enough talent in him to make him win the vacant NWA title.
Then he joined the WWE who let's face it had exausted every gimmicks they ever had. Giving him a Mr. Perfect character was pretty uninspired and boring. Sort of like the the WWF at that time. They were ready for a whole new attitude change and this gimmick was behind the times.
I think Shane was pretty old school and with all the changes in wrestling in the 90s, from the WWF to WCW with the nWo, the style was more about anti-heroes and rebels. He shined in ECW because of the environment and because in a trashy place like this he looked different. Don't let the cursing fool you, his work was very 80s NWA. Yet with a new zing. HHH when they pushed him in 99/2000 borrowed heavily from Douglas as main event a-hole heel champ.
Then again, I think being in ECW for so long hurt Douglas. Because in ECW you are expected to be crass, to be raunchy and to take things to the extreme and it tends to make you forget the art of wrestling and why you were there. When Douglas returned to WCW in 99, the Shane Douglas that had potential, that was a old school pure talent was nowhere to be found anymore.
Answer: wrong place at the wrong time.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Oct 4, 2011 10:56:00 GMT -5
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Jimmy
Grimlock
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Post by Jimmy on Oct 4, 2011 16:26:30 GMT -5
hey remember when Shane Douglas became Triple H before Triple H became Triple H? Franchise/Game nickname, long hair, beard, large physique, ever present female associate, holding the title forever. Same person.
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Post by repomanfan on Oct 4, 2011 18:28:20 GMT -5
hey remember when Shane Douglas became Triple H before Triple H became Triple H? Franchise/Game nickname, long hair, beard, large physique, ever present female associate, holding the title forever. Same person. On top of all that he influenced Triple H. Thanks for nothing.
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Post by nerdinitupagain on Oct 4, 2011 20:13:52 GMT -5
Had the Pitbulls/Douglas angle happened 10 years earlier... there would have been a riot when he shook Gary Wolfe by the halo. And there was a near riot when he did it in 1994 in the "smarkiest" promotion.
He wasn't the greatest, but he took advantage of his time on top in ECW and made himself seem special. Like so many ex-ECW guys, the magic was half Heyman and half them.
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