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Post by thetower52 on Sept 23, 2011 20:59:25 GMT -5
that fact that people cant accept that Beniot killed his wife and kid make me sick.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 23, 2011 21:16:19 GMT -5
Or he was a cowardly child murderer that took his own life rather than faced up to his actions.
I'm not saying that anyone knows the facts or even that I subscribe to either interpretation, but you can look at it multiple ways.
In the end though, no matter what frame of mind or WHY he did it, he did it. There's no real reasonable doubt. If there were, there'd be an on-going investigation to find out what happened. There's not, we know what happened. We'll never ever know why, but we know the events that took place.
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Nikki Heyman
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Sept 23, 2011 21:57:35 GMT -5
What you are ignoring is that we do not have 100% proof that he did it, . Yes, we do. Clearly he did it. Why else would be be playing with his son outside the day after killing his wife while his dead wife was in the house? Why else would there be padded support around his own neck to make his suicide more comfortable? There's mountains of proof and a detailed investigation proving he did it. Chris Benoit, over the course of a weekend, murdered his wife, his son and then himself. How is this even still a question? Judging from a few things I've come across regarding the police report, the "investigation", and mishandling of evidence, we will never know that. They didn't look over his diary - did they even wonder why it was in the garbage to begin with? Instead of reading it over to see if this was premeditated (or get clues to his mental state) they just hand it back to his family. Nice investigation there. When the police came to the house, they didn't go in first - they send in a neighbor, who has no police training and could have potentially tampered with evidence. There's no account of how long the neighbor was in the house before the police entered, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that said neighbor didn't have the time/ability/wherewithal to mess with anything, but a good lawyer would call that tampering with evidence. Thus, even if he DID do it, there's an off-chance he would have gotten off scot-free. You can call it conspiracy theory - but it's backed better than the "Demon posession" one out there. As for "Obvious evidence" let me tell you a story from a film I watched in criminology class... You walk in on a house that seems otherwise empty. The first thing you encounter is a brutally murdered three year old girl laying on the floor drenched in her own blood. The next thing you see is a grown man charging you with a blunt object. To you, that's OBVIOUSLY the murderer, right? Well, it MIGHT be the angry father/relative who found the kid and thinks YOU'RE the one who killed the kid and is attacking you! But you pass judgment before you have looked at all the facts.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Sept 23, 2011 22:12:50 GMT -5
Here something that I don't think has been mentioned. As much of a black mark that this has left on wrestling, it could have been much, much worse for the business had Benoit somehow survived the suicide attempt and had actually had to stand trial. You know if he had a defense team, they would have been utilizing the CTE info to the fullest extent that a judge would allow. And the defense would have been putting WWE, the entire business, and it's practices on trial in a way that could have tainted it forever.
Benoit killing himself in the end made it much easier for WWE than it would have been had he lived. With Benoit dead, all Vince had to do was erase him from the company's history. With Benoit alive, Vince would have been in a much bigger fight than the steroid trial. And, I don't think he could have survived that.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,029
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Post by chazraps on Sept 23, 2011 22:16:39 GMT -5
Yes, we do. Clearly he did it. Why else would be be playing with his son outside the day after killing his wife while his dead wife was in the house? Why else would there be padded support around his own neck to make his suicide more comfortable? There's mountains of proof and a detailed investigation proving he did it. Chris Benoit, over the course of a weekend, murdered his wife, his son and then himself. How is this even still a question? Judging from a few things I've come across regarding the police report, the "investigation", and mishandling of evidence, we will never know that. They didn't look over his diary - did they even wonder why it was in the garbage to begin with? Instead of reading it over to see if this was premeditated (or get clues to his mental state) they just hand it back to his family. Nice investigation there. When the police came to the house, they didn't go in first - they send in a neighbor, who has no police training and could have potentially tampered with evidence. There's no account of how long the neighbor was in the house before the police entered, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that said neighbor didn't have the time/ability/wherewithal to mess with anything, but a good lawyer would call that tampering with evidence. Thus, even if he DID do it, there's an off-chance he would have gotten off scot-free. You can call it conspiracy theory - but it's backed better than the "Demon posession" one out there. As for "Obvious evidence" let me tell you a story from a film I watched in criminology class... You walk in on a house that seems otherwise empty. The first thing you encounter is a brutally murdered three year old girl laying on the floor drenched in her own blood. The next thing you see is a grown man charging you with a blunt object. To you, that's OBVIOUSLY the murderer, right? Well, it MIGHT be the angry father/relative who found the kid and thinks YOU'RE the one who killed the kid and is attacking you! But you pass judgment before you have looked at all the facts. But, we have looked at all the facts. Benoit murdered his wife, son and himself over the course of a three day weekend. I don't know where that diary story came from, but what makes you think they didn't look through it? Excerpts from that diary have been read elsewhere in the media. If there were pages missing or a message in the back indicating people were coming to get him, do you think the family would just keep that a secret and not tell anyone? Also, you're siding with a diary over a mountain of evidence proving he did it? Honestly, what else could there possibly be giving you doubt?
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 23, 2011 22:17:10 GMT -5
Here something that I don't think has been mentioned. As much of a black mark that this has left on wrestling, it could have been much, much worse for the business had Benoit somehow survived the suicide attempt and had actually had to stand trial. You know if he had a defense team, they would have been utilizing the CTE info to the fullest extent that a judge would allow. And the defense would have been putting WWE, the entire business, and it's practices on trial in a way that could have tainted it forever. Benoit killing himself in the end made it much easier for WWE than it would have been had he lived. With Benoit dead, all Vince had to do was erase him from the company's history. With Benoit alive, Vince would have been in a much bigger fight than the steroid trial. And, I don't think he could have survived that. I think Vince's own high powered lawyers woulda went into damage control, dredging up anything negative possible about Benoit to support that he was just a psychopath ticking time bomb or some such. Certainly there'd have been some negative backwash on them though; but a conviction of Benoit as a murdering madman who woulda been such with or without wrestling woulda got 'em off the hook. Which is not to say that woulda been the result by any stretch, but I bet they'd be doing their damnedest to support that.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 23, 2011 22:19:24 GMT -5
Judging from a few things I've come across regarding the police report, the "investigation", and mishandling of evidence, we will never know that. They didn't look over his diary - did they even wonder why it was in the garbage to begin with? Instead of reading it over to see if this was premeditated (or get clues to his mental state) they just hand it back to his family. Nice investigation there. When the police came to the house, they didn't go in first - they send in a neighbor, who has no police training and could have potentially tampered with evidence. There's no account of how long the neighbor was in the house before the police entered, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that said neighbor didn't have the time/ability/wherewithal to mess with anything, but a good lawyer would call that tampering with evidence. Thus, even if he DID do it, there's an off-chance he would have gotten off scot-free. You can call it conspiracy theory - but it's backed better than the "Demon posession" one out there. As for "Obvious evidence" let me tell you a story from a film I watched in criminology class... You walk in on a house that seems otherwise empty. The first thing you encounter is a brutally murdered three year old girl laying on the floor drenched in her own blood. The next thing you see is a grown man charging you with a blunt object. To you, that's OBVIOUSLY the murderer, right? Well, it MIGHT be the angry father/relative who found the kid and thinks YOU'RE the one who killed the kid and is attacking you! But you pass judgment before you have looked at all the facts. But, we have looked at all the facts. Benoit murdered his wife, son and himself over the course of a three day weekend. I don't know where that diary story came from, but what makes you think they didn't look through it? Excerpts from that diary have been read elsewhere in the media. If there were pages missing or a message in the back indicating people were coming to get him, do you think the family would just keep that a secret and not tell anyone? Also, you're siding with a diary over a mountain of evidence proving he did it? Honestly, what else could there possibly be giving you doubt? Moreover, if his brain was as damaged and he was as out of it as has been claimed; and I have no doubt that he was fairly mentally ill by the time that he killed them all; why would a diary from his own hand be seen as credible. I.E. if he was brain damaged, and in all likelihood he was, wouldn't his diary be suspect as the writings of the brain damaged?
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Nikki Heyman
Fry's dog Seymour
EXTREEEEEME Pony Manager
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Sept 24, 2011 8:06:09 GMT -5
Judging from a few things I've come across regarding the police report, the "investigation", and mishandling of evidence, we will never know that. They didn't look over his diary - did they even wonder why it was in the garbage to begin with? Instead of reading it over to see if this was premeditated (or get clues to his mental state) they just hand it back to his family. Nice investigation there. When the police came to the house, they didn't go in first - they send in a neighbor, who has no police training and could have potentially tampered with evidence. There's no account of how long the neighbor was in the house before the police entered, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that said neighbor didn't have the time/ability/wherewithal to mess with anything, but a good lawyer would call that tampering with evidence. Thus, even if he DID do it, there's an off-chance he would have gotten off scot-free. You can call it conspiracy theory - but it's backed better than the "Demon posession" one out there. As for "Obvious evidence" let me tell you a story from a film I watched in criminology class... You walk in on a house that seems otherwise empty. The first thing you encounter is a brutally murdered three year old girl laying on the floor drenched in her own blood. The next thing you see is a grown man charging you with a blunt object. To you, that's OBVIOUSLY the murderer, right? Well, it MIGHT be the angry father/relative who found the kid and thinks YOU'RE the one who killed the kid and is attacking you! But you pass judgment before you have looked at all the facts. But, we have looked at all the facts. Benoit murdered his wife, son and himself over the course of a three day weekend. I don't know where that diary story came from, but what makes you think they didn't look through it? Excerpts from that diary have been read elsewhere in the media. If there were pages missing or a message in the back indicating people were coming to get him, do you think the family would just keep that a secret and not tell anyone? Also, you're siding with a diary over a mountain of evidence proving he did it? Honestly, what else could there possibly be giving you doubt? The fact that None of us were in the house when it happened.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Sept 24, 2011 9:35:30 GMT -5
anyways, back to Jericho's book. The wrestling side of things was interesting, but all the parts about Fozzy (outside of the interview he did with Andrew Dice Clay) were really boring. I also get the feeling that Jericho was withholding a bunch of opinions about some people.
As for Benoit, he did it and that's that.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Sept 24, 2011 9:50:57 GMT -5
....I think the better question is, is this fair to Benoit? He had a great wrestling career. I don't think the last 72 hrs of someones life should define everything they have ever done up to that point. Yeah how he went out was wrong....but it doesn't discount what he accomplished in the ring.... It doesn't matter what we think, over time fans will slowly forget there was ever a Chris Benoit. The vast majority of generations of fans yet to come will not even know such a person ever even exist. The ancient Egyptians believed that speaking a dead person's name made them 'live again'. The worst punishment the ancient Egyptians could dole out was to strike a dead person from all public records & monuments, in essence by a generation or two the person would by erased from history. The E by controlling nearly all of Benoit's video taped matches are able to do nearly the same thing, like it or lump it.
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donny
Team Rocket
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Post by donny on Sept 24, 2011 10:03:47 GMT -5
But, we have looked at all the facts. Benoit murdered his wife, son and himself over the course of a three day weekend. I don't know where that diary story came from, but what makes you think they didn't look through it? Excerpts from that diary have been read elsewhere in the media. If there were pages missing or a message in the back indicating people were coming to get him, do you think the family would just keep that a secret and not tell anyone? Also, you're siding with a diary over a mountain of evidence proving he did it? Honestly, what else could there possibly be giving you doubt? The fact that None of us were in the house when it happened. It's a good thing none of us were there. Chris Benoit would have had another victim on his hands. I swear that some wrestling fans are more inclined to paint guys like HHH and Hulk Hogan as monsters for playing the political game while making excuses for a real monster like Chris Benoit because he was a good worker. I bet if it was Mason Ryan who did that horrible act, no one would be looking for an excuse for him.
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Post by jadison on Sept 24, 2011 10:46:03 GMT -5
Yeah. Priorities, wrestling fans, we need to get them straight.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Sept 24, 2011 10:48:48 GMT -5
The fact that None of us were in the house when it happened. It's a good thing none of us were there. Chris Benoit would have had another victim on his hands. I swear that some wrestling fans are more inclined to paint guys like HHH and Hulk Hogan as monsters for playing the political game while making excuses for a real monster like Chris Benoit because he was a good worker. I bet if it was Mason Ryan who did that horrible act, no one would be looking for an excuse for him. I have my own opinion on Benoit, but I'm offended that people thought that Hogan and HHH were deemed more capable of this act than Benoit.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Sept 24, 2011 11:24:00 GMT -5
The fact that None of us were in the house when it happened. It's a good thing none of us were there. Chris Benoit would have had another victim on his hands. I swear that some wrestling fans are more inclined to paint guys like HHH and Hulk Hogan as monsters for playing the political game while making excuses for a real monster like Chris Benoit because he was a good worker. I bet if it was Mason Ryan who did that horrible act, no one would be looking for an excuse for him. Very sadly and to my infinite shame, I must concede you're right.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 24, 2011 12:46:11 GMT -5
I saw Jericho's book in Books A Million the other day. How is it?
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,029
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Post by chazraps on Sept 24, 2011 15:41:15 GMT -5
But, we have looked at all the facts. Benoit murdered his wife, son and himself over the course of a three day weekend. I don't know where that diary story came from, but what makes you think they didn't look through it? Excerpts from that diary have been read elsewhere in the media. If there were pages missing or a message in the back indicating people were coming to get him, do you think the family would just keep that a secret and not tell anyone? Also, you're siding with a diary over a mountain of evidence proving he did it? Honestly, what else could there possibly be giving you doubt? The fact that None of us were in the house when it happened. None of us were at the Holocaust either. You want to deny the evidence of that too? Was that Kevin Sullivan's doing as well?
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Post by moneyman20 on Sept 24, 2011 15:43:53 GMT -5
But, we have looked at all the facts. Benoit murdered his wife, son and himself over the course of a three day weekend. I don't know where that diary story came from, but what makes you think they didn't look through it? Excerpts from that diary have been read elsewhere in the media. If there were pages missing or a message in the back indicating people were coming to get him, do you think the family would just keep that a secret and not tell anyone? Also, you're siding with a diary over a mountain of evidence proving he did it? Honestly, what else could there possibly be giving you doubt? The fact that None of us were in the house when it happened. I think I'm going to puke. Please tell me you're joking. If Benoit didn't do it, then who did?
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 24, 2011 17:55:39 GMT -5
I am curious since it's been brought up. If Benoit didn't do it, what's a scenario that makes any amount of sense as an explanation? Just for the sake of argument, I'd be curious to hear anything remotely plausible.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 24, 2011 17:56:02 GMT -5
I saw Jericho's book in Books A Million the other day. How is it? Both of them are excellent.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Sept 24, 2011 19:18:32 GMT -5
I saw Jericho's book in Books A Million the other day. How is it? Both of them are excellent. agreed
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