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Post by slasher911 on Feb 4, 2012 3:20:57 GMT -5
You got a gun and a kid has a butter knife and you decide to shoot to kill ? Thats way too harsh. Could have shot to injure him so he'd drop the knife and then you tackle and arrest him. Shoot him in the arm or leg for christ sakes he's just a kid. That's a great way to get stabbed in the throat.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Feb 4, 2012 3:30:42 GMT -5
Hey officer...where's your taser bro?
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Post by Orange on Feb 4, 2012 3:42:37 GMT -5
You got a gun and a kid has a butter knife and you decide to shoot to kill ? Thats way too harsh. Could have shot to injure him so he'd drop the knife and then you tackle and arrest him. Shoot him in the arm or leg for christ sakes he's just a kid. Hindsight is great, but that cop had to make a decision in real time to save his life. He did what he thought had to be done, and I'm sure that he feels awful about it, it can't be easy for cops to ever shoot anyone regardless of circumstances. The main point is, he made a decision at that very second to do what he felt best to protect himself, it's unfair to say "he should have done this" or "he should have done that".
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Feb 4, 2012 3:47:54 GMT -5
You got a gun and a kid has a butter knife and you decide to shoot to kill ? Thats way too harsh. Could have shot to injure him so he'd drop the knife and then you tackle and arrest him. Shoot him in the arm or leg for christ sakes he's just a kid. They are trained to shoot for center of mass to guarantee a hit. If he went for the arms he could have missed and killed the kid's mom or dad. Or he could have hit a major artery and the kid could have bled out in a tremendous amount of pain. I wonder how people would react in this situation. It isn't like there is bullet time, the cop so a glint of steel in a knife shape and reacted. If this happened at an airport and the person was brown, there'd be way less negative feedback. People would say "he had to do it" and he may damn well get a commendation for it.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Feb 4, 2012 3:52:09 GMT -5
You got a gun and a kid has a butter knife and you decide to shoot to kill ? Thats way too harsh. Could have shot to injure him so he'd drop the knife and then you tackle and arrest him. Shoot him in the arm or leg for christ sakes he's just a kid. They are trained to shoot for center of mass to guarantee a hit. If he went for the arms he could have missed and killed the kid's mom or dad. Or he could have hit a major artery and the kid could have bled out in a tremendous amount of pain. I wonder how people would react in this situation. It isn't like there is bullet time, the cop so a glint of steel in a knife shape and reacted. If this happened at an airport and the person was brown, there'd be way less negative feedback. People would say "he had to do it" and he may damn well get a commendation for it. If he was brown? The kid was black. There goes that theory.
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Post by Orange on Feb 4, 2012 3:52:13 GMT -5
You got a gun and a kid has a butter knife and you decide to shoot to kill ? Thats way too harsh. Could have shot to injure him so he'd drop the knife and then you tackle and arrest him. Shoot him in the arm or leg for christ sakes he's just a kid. They are trained to shoot for center of mass to guarantee a hit. If he went for the arms he could have missed and killed the kid's mom or dad. Or he could have hit a major artery and the kid could have bled out in a tremendous amount of pain. I wonder how people would react in this situation. It isn't like there is bullet time, the cop so a glint of steel in a knife shape and reacted. If this happened at an airport and the person was brown, there'd be way less negative feedback. People would say "he had to do it" and he may damn well get a commendation for it. I don't think we have to bring race in to it, do we?
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Post by Rolent Tex on Feb 4, 2012 4:02:39 GMT -5
I don't think we have to bring race in to it, do we? 1) Read his post. 2) Google a picture of the kid. 3) Shake your head at his post.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2012 4:06:49 GMT -5
Sounds warranted to me. It's not like the cop really had time to be sure what kind of knife it was.
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Post by machomuta on Feb 4, 2012 6:46:40 GMT -5
, but what else could've been done if you're a cop and someone with a knife comes at you? Knock him out. A grown man should be able to take down a kid without using weapons.
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Feb 4, 2012 8:25:05 GMT -5
They are trained to shoot for center of mass to guarantee a hit. If he went for the arms he could have missed and killed the kid's mom or dad. Or he could have hit a major artery and the kid could have bled out in a tremendous amount of pain. I wonder how people would react in this situation. It isn't like there is bullet time, the cop so a glint of steel in a knife shape and reacted. If this happened at an airport and the person was brown, there'd be way less negative feedback. People would say "he had to do it" and he may damn well get a commendation for it. If he was brown? The kid was black. There goes that theory. It wasn't a theory, it was a hypothetical situation, and also, brown does not equal black. Also notice how I added airport to the mix, it changes the situation.
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NerdyGerdy
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Post by NerdyGerdy on Feb 4, 2012 8:39:22 GMT -5
Justifed.
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wrasslinmachine
Don Corleone
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Post by wrasslinmachine on Feb 4, 2012 8:49:01 GMT -5
Another trigger happy officer, nothing new.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2012 8:51:41 GMT -5
, but what else could've been done if you're a cop and someone with a knife comes at you? Knock him out. A grown man should be able to take down a kid without using weapons. Said kid had a weapon himself, and it's not like being attacked by a fifteen-year-old is the same as being attacked by a nine-year-old. If anything, youth would have probably given him an advantage.
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Post by xCompackx on Feb 4, 2012 9:05:14 GMT -5
Thing about these situations is you can never completely say "I would've done that different". A kid lunging at you with a knife is a kid lunging at you with a knife. Taking time to think of "What kind of knife is it" or "Is he disabled" is probably going to land you in the morgue. I have no experience at all with guns, but I'd imagine hitting moving limbs isn't easy. So yeah, it's terrible, but I'd focus more on "Why did he have the knife in the first place" than "The cop is a bad person"
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 4, 2012 9:14:12 GMT -5
I still don't buy that the kid only had a butter knife. If it he did, it was a sharp ass butter knife to be able to slash through fabric. And he's old enough that his age isn't really relevant. A 15 year old with a knife is no less dangerous than a 21 year old with a knife. You don't suddenly gain knowledge on how to use a weapon once you hit the lawfully mandated age of 18. If he was 9 or 6, that'd be one thing, but at 15? He'd likely already hit a growth spurt or two. You got a gun and a kid has a butter knife and you decide to shoot to kill ? Thats way too harsh. Could have shot to injure him so he'd drop the knife and then you tackle and arrest him. Shoot him in the arm or leg for christ sakes he's just a kid. This isn't Hollywood, you don't aim for small body parts on a moving target to be sure to not cause any lasting pain. You don't hit the head with the butt of the gun. If someone comes at you with a weapon, you shoot to kill. And a shot in the limbs is just as dangerous as a shot to the body. You're going to have likely permanent damage if the shot itself isn't fatal. There's this thing called the femoral artery in the leg, and if that's nicked and you happen to not have an EMT right there, you're very likely to die a painful, but short death. In the arm, you have brachial arteries and major nerves. You hit those, and permanent damage is not only very likely, but so is shock, which could also lead to death. A lot of people seem to think in terms of action heroes, fantasizing that they could have taken him down with nothing but their mythical kung-fu knowledge, but that's not life. Would it have been nice if they were able to subdue the kid without shooting him? Sure, but it would have been nice if the parents had ensured that a kid with a history of violent behavioral problems didn't have access to weapons too. And it's not like tasers are the be-all-end-all solution either.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Feb 4, 2012 9:14:52 GMT -5
It wasn't a theory, it was a hypothetical situation, and also, brown does not equal black. Also notice how I added airport to the mix, it changes the situation. Now that makes even less sense. "You all wouldn't be bashing the cops if this was a brown person and he was brandishing a knife at an airport." So I'm assuming by brown person you mean someone of Middle Eastern heritage. I don't get why race is even being brought into this conversation at all. Anyone that has a knife at an airport and is waving it about that gets shot no matter if they're white, black, Asian or Middle Eastern isn't going to get much sympathy. I don't see where you're going with this. What does a potential terrorist situation have to do with a 15-year-old autistic kid. It's two completely different situations. That and going back to your original post about the cops being trained to shoot for the center of mass. According to reports they did no such thing. Reportedly one officer shot him in the leg and when he kept moving, the other officer shot him in the skull. I can understand them being afraid since he cut one of their arms, but they've dealt with this autistic kid ten times in two years and have tased him in past situations. They knew what they were getting themselves into since this wasn't the first time. If they're used to this happening, I don't get why they didn't show up with plans to tase him to get him under control since he has a history of violence.
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 4, 2012 9:36:04 GMT -5
It wasn't a theory, it was a hypothetical situation, and also, brown does not equal black. Also notice how I added airport to the mix, it changes the situation. Now that makes even less sense. "You all wouldn't be bashing the cops if this was a brown person and he was brandishing a knife at an airport." So I'm assuming by brown person you mean someone of Middle Eastern heritage. I don't get why race is even being brought into this conversation at all. Anyone that has a knife at an airport and is waving it about that gets shot no matter if they're white, black, Asian or Middle Eastern isn't going to get much sympathy. I don't see where you're going with this. What does a potential terrorist situation have to do with a 15-year-old autistic kid. It's two completely different situations. That and going back to your original post about the cops being trained to shoot for the center of mass. According to reports they did no such thing. Reportedly one officer shot him in the leg and when he kept moving, the other officer shot him in the skull. I can understand them being afraid since he cut one of their arms, but they've dealt with this autistic kid ten times in two years and have tased him in past situations. They knew what they were getting themselves into since this wasn't the first time. If they're used to this happening, I don't get why they didn't show up with plans to tase him to get him under control since he has a history of violence. I don't like the reasoning that they didn't have a taser, but once the knife is drawn? I wouldn't rely on a taser then, they're not that accurate and you have one shot only. The history of violence, and the fact that I've never seen a butter knife cut through fabric, makes it a lot harder for me to really fathom how the situation could have changed without risking serious injury to the police.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Feb 4, 2012 9:38:23 GMT -5
I don't like the reasoning that they didn't have a taser, but once the knife is drawn? I wouldn't rely on a taser then, they're not that accurate and you have one shot only. The history of violence, and the fact that I've never seen a butter knife cut through fabric, makes it a lot harder for me to really fathom how the situation could have changed without risking serious injury to the police. It's just odd to me. If the kid has a history of violence, why the hell do you keep sharp objects around with easy access to them? That's just asking for trouble. If he was just coming at them with his fists, he's easily subdued. The parents have just as much to blame for this as the police.
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 4, 2012 9:46:22 GMT -5
I do agree that if you have a kid with a noted history of behavioral problems, you should be extra diligent in making sure they can't access any weapons, even if it means locking your cutlery drawer.
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Post by HoganBai on Feb 4, 2012 10:58:39 GMT -5
I know it's been said many times but people still think it's an easy solution - knocking out or shooting this guy in one of the limbs is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Imagine someone running at you from 20 feet away, you can't run away, he's got a knife (all you see is a shiny blade) and you think you have the time to pull out your gun and pop him in the leg? While he's running full pelt and the only thing staying in roughly the same place is his torso or head? Or even funnier, that you can line up a punch for him to run into before he stabs you?
There's some awesome ninja's here on FAN!
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