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Post by noleafclover1980 on Oct 22, 2011 13:27:33 GMT -5
Anyway... AJ is Puerto Rican... I mean her actual name is April Mendez. Doesn't mean she isn't filipino, as Spanish derived names are the most common surnames in the Philippines. No, but the fact that she says she's Puerto Rican probably means she's Puerto Rican. vids.wwe.com/9530/nxt-rookie-diva-aj-reacts-to-bei
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Post by jadison on Oct 22, 2011 13:38:34 GMT -5
I thought the promo was indicative that the Divas division is going in a better direction. It's a personal issue, the women stay classy and don't go to the "stupid WHORE! card" but still bring some intensity, and it's based on seeing who's the best in the end. I also feel that Eve is potentially a huge asset to the Divas going forward. Remember, she's only wrestled for 2 years. She's extremely athletic and can take big bumps...she just needs to bring it all together in terms of her offense and being smooth in the ring. If she could dial down trying to fit so many crazy moves into 2 minute matches she'd be well on her way. Four years, actually. And every time they've pushed her, the crowd refuses to care. I'd like for them to move on to someone else with a bigger upside. Like? All that's really left is Alicia Fox, Tamina, AJ, Kaitlyn, and Rosa. Are any of them really better options, right now? AJ still needs some work and hasn't been made to look remotely credible yet. The others...nope.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2011 13:41:50 GMT -5
Four years, actually. And every time they've pushed her, the crowd refuses to care. I'd like for them to move on to someone else with a bigger upside. Like? All that's really left is Alicia Fox, Tamina, AJ, Kaitlyn, and Rosa. Are any of them really better options, right now? AJ still needs some work and hasn't been made to look remotely credible yet. The others...nope. Here's a better idea. How about they never turned Melina or Nattie heel in the first place and given Gail Kim a decent enough reason to renew her contract, and voila, instant roster depth. Instead they HAD to turn Natalya heel for no reason after kicking her to the curb to push Eve Torres. As I've already said (look a page back) they were pulling this s*** with Eve long before the roster got thinned out. She is nothing short of emblematic of everything wrong with WWE's current business model.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Oct 22, 2011 13:49:37 GMT -5
Alright we get it, (Un)Great Khali you don't like Eve.
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Post by jadison on Oct 22, 2011 13:52:40 GMT -5
Like? All that's really left is Alicia Fox, Tamina, AJ, Kaitlyn, and Rosa. Are any of them really better options, right now? AJ still needs some work and hasn't been made to look remotely credible yet. The others...nope. Here's a better idea. How about they never turned Melina or Nattie heel in the first place and given Gail Kim a decent enough reason to renew her contract, and voila, instant roster depth. Instead they HAD to turn Natalya heel for no reason after kicking her to the curb to push Eve Torres. As I've already said (look a page back) they were pulling this s*** with Eve long before the roster got thinned out. She is nothing short of emblematic of everything wrong with WWE's current business model. Lol, alright? Better get on the horn with E&C then and fire up the time machine then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2011 13:53:42 GMT -5
Alright we get it, (Un)Great Khali you don't like Eve. I apologize if you don't like what I'm saying, but feel free to tell me how I'm wrong in this matter. -Face champ to win belt from Maryse for no reason? Eve Torres. -Melina heel turn? Buried under Eve Torres. -Natalya face run? Ended by Eve Torres. -Kelly Kelly as pre-eminent face? Threatened right now by Eve Torres. -Beth Phoenix title run? Threatened by Eve Torres. My problem is with WWE booking, NOT Eve. But they damn sure are trying to make me dislike her because she'd be fine as a second-tier diva but the constant pushing of her is nothing short of ridiculous.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BigWill on Oct 22, 2011 14:16:11 GMT -5
Four years, actually. And every time they've pushed her, the crowd refuses to care. I'd like for them to move on to someone else with a bigger upside. Like? All that's really left is Alicia Fox, Tamina, AJ, Kaitlyn, and Rosa. Are any of them really better options, right now? AJ still needs some work and hasn't been made to look remotely credible yet. The others...nope. I wouldn't mind seeing Alicia Fox getting a title shot. She's no better than Eve, but at least it would be something different from the constant Eve pushes that end up flopping. And where does AJ need work? She's only been in on the main roster for a year, and is already better in the ring than most divas, and has shown early on that she can generate a reaction from the crowd. And on her not looking credible... Kelly Kelly was pretty much Laycool's bitch just a few months before getting handed the title. All AJ would need is a few TV wins for her to look like enough of a threat for the title.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Oct 22, 2011 14:31:39 GMT -5
Four years, actually. And every time they've pushed her, the crowd refuses to care. I'd like for them to move on to someone else with a bigger upside. Like? All that's really left is Alicia Fox, Tamina, AJ, Kaitlyn, and Rosa. Are any of them really better options, right now? AJ still needs some work and hasn't been made to look remotely credible yet. The others...nope. Alicia? Yes. AJ? Hell yes. Hell, going by her recent rematch with Maxine, I'd even say Kaitlyn's a better choice than Eve about now, because at least Kaitlyn is remotely entertaining. And as far as AJ goes, as I said before, considering she's one of the more over and more talented Divas and she's been there for almost two years, it wouldn't exactly be insane for her to get a shot at the belt. And if WWE management could stop wasting her on NXT and gets some wind under her wings, her facing Beth Phoenix would be a possibility instead of just armchair fantasy booking. The fact of the matter is, Eve couldn't get a proper face pop if the entire Divas division turned heel. They have on-and-off pushed Eve for the past two to three years, even at the expense of far more over and far more talented Divas. So, yes, out of the choices above, at least three would be FAR better than watching Eve Torres.
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Post by dashingdro on Oct 22, 2011 15:57:30 GMT -5
The bad thing about Eve's pushes is the fact that WWE never even tries with her at all. Nattie, Beth, Melina, Mickie all got a lot of reaction because the feud they had with laycool. They were really putting everyone over and making stories seem interesting and have a point. But with Eve they every time she won the championship or was given a push they never gave her anything to work with. All she did was match after match after match until she finally lost the title. Had they given Eve this storyline they gave with Beth (not the whole barbie thing just a story with Beth & Natalya always getting the best of her). Then maybe the crowd would give Eve the time of day. But they just never do that. Take this match at vengeance for example what I really want to happen is Eve to lose the match but for WWE to keep the focus on Eve vs Beth. Kinda like they did with Kelly but more promos. Then eventually have Eve win and go from there. But what might happen is Eve will win the title, then Beth will try to get the title back only to lose the match.. Then Eve does match after match and finally loses the title again... ugh! Just give the girl a storyline I mean the day she lost the title to Brie Bella, there was a glimse of something actually happening in that one promo backstage with Eve, Gail & Natalya. But nothing came of it . Also AJ is definitely Puerto Rican, It's a known fact and she has said it before. I believe she said it on NXT too that she was happy to be with Primo because they were both Puerto Rican and had similar wrestling styles.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Oct 22, 2011 16:23:39 GMT -5
The bad thing about Eve's pushes is the fact that WWE never even tries with her at all. Nattie, Beth, Melina, Mickie all got a lot of reaction because the feud they had with laycool. They were really putting everyone over and making stories seem interesting and have a point. But with Eve they every time she won the championship or was given a push they never gave her anything to work with. All she did was match after match after match until she finally lost the title. Had they given Eve this storyline they gave with Beth (not the whole barbie thing just a story with Beth & Natalya always getting the best of her). Then maybe the crowd would give Eve the time of day. But they just never do that. Take this match at vengeance for example what I really want to happen is Eve to lose the match but for WWE to keep the focus on Eve vs Beth. Kinda like they did with Kelly but more promos. Then eventually have Eve win and go from there. But what might happen is Eve will win the title, then Beth will try to get the title back only to lose the match.. Then Eve does match after match and finally loses the title again... ugh! Just give the girl a storyline I mean the day she lost the title to Brie Bella, there was a glimse of something actually happening in that one promo backstage with Eve, Gail & Natalya. But nothing came of it . This. All of this. I can think of very few Divas that have been booked as horridly as Eve; she sits in the boondocks for months on end, without a chance to interact with the fans. Then, out of nowhere, they throw the title on her, and everyone, including misManagement, gets shocked when she doesn't get a reaction. She shouldn't have the title thrown on her, not this Sunday and not anytime soon. Let her fight her way to the top, make it a long, drawn out struggle, one the fans have a chance and a reason to get behind. They do not need to hotshot another belt onto her.
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Post by moneyman20 on Oct 22, 2011 16:28:09 GMT -5
^ Unfortunately for us, "hotshotting" is the word of the year in WWE.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2011 17:24:39 GMT -5
WWE has done more for Eve than they have for any other babyface diva currently on the roster. She got her own video packages hyping her MMA training last year. She got to tear down The Miz on the mic on RAW. She became almost a female member of Cryme Tyme and was in skits with them every week on SD. She came out rapping and dancing with R-Truth for a while to try and get some of his popularity to rub off on her. She got two title reigns. She gets more mic time than any of the others (on the shows that matter). Her face is usually front and center on any diva related merchandise, calendars, etc. Could they have done more for her? Sure. But there were girls like Gail Kim and Melina who were just as (or more) over as her without receiving the kind of opportunities that Eve got in the past 2 years. And of the girls who are still around, Alicia and AJ are no less over than her despite receiving virtually zero face time on the main shows. And Kelly has been hot-shotted into a bunch of stuff with no payoff (the Drew McIntyre stuff, her feud with Vickie, etc) just like Eve and managed to get/remain over with it. I just don’t see why they keep going back to Eve. Kelly’s matches with Beth were the best received diva matches all year (by the general audience) and she’s rewarded by having to take a backseat to Eve again? Then there are girls like AJ and Alicia who would probably kill for the opportunity of a singles match on PPV. Like I said: No matter what they do for her, she doesn't seem to be able to get over. She's passable in the ring. She's got a look that is universally agreed upon as good. She has some athleticism. But the crowd does not give a damn about her in spite of everything that she's done, and she's showed very little improvement since they brought her into the company in 2007. Whereas you look at someone like Alicia or AJ and they're doing great for themselves in spite of what little they receive. But WWE STILL insists on pushing her, rather than pushing the most over female they have or giving someone new a chance.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Oct 22, 2011 17:55:57 GMT -5
WWE has done more for Eve than they have for any other babyface diva currently on the roster. She got her own video packages hyping her MMA training last year. She got to tear down The Miz on the mic on RAW. She became almost a female member of Cryme Tyme and was in skits with them every week on SD. She came out rapping and dancing with R-Truth for a while to try and get some of his popularity to rub off on her. She got two title reigns. She gets more mic time than any of the others (on the shows that matter). Her face is usually front and center on any diva related merchandise, calendars, etc. Could they have done more for her? Sure. But there were girls like Gail Kim and Melina who were just as (or more) over as her without receiving the kind of opportunities that Eve got in the past 2 years. And of the girls who are still around, Alicia and AJ are no less over than her despite receiving virtually zero face time on the main shows. And Kelly has been hot-shotted into a bunch of stuff with no payoff (the Drew McIntyre stuff, her feud with Vickie, etc) just like Eve and managed to get/remain over with it. I just don’t see why they keep going back to Eve. Kelly’s matches with Beth were the best received diva matches all year (by the general audience) and she’s rewarded by having to take a backseat to Eve again? Then there are girls like AJ and Alicia who would probably kill for the opportunity of a singles match on PPV. Like I said: No matter what they do for her, she doesn't seem to be able to get over. She's passable in the ring. She's got a look that is universally agreed upon as good. She has some athleticism. But the crowd does not give a damn about her in spite of everything that she's done, and she's showed very little improvement since they brought her into the company in 2007. Whereas you look at someone like Alicia or AJ and they're doing great for themselves in spite of what little they receive. I'd love to hear your definition of "Doing great for themselves."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2011 18:02:36 GMT -5
Like I said: No matter what they do for her, she doesn't seem to be able to get over. She's passable in the ring. She's got a look that is universally agreed upon as good. She has some athleticism. But the crowd does not give a damn about her in spite of everything that she's done, and she's showed very little improvement since they brought her into the company in 2007. Whereas you look at someone like Alicia or AJ and they're doing great for themselves in spite of what little they receive. I'd love to hear your definition of "Doing great for themselves." k Alicia: Still employed despite being a total jobber. Not really any less over than Eve (their crowd reactions are both negligible). Substantially improved in the ring from what she was when she first got brought in. AJ: Demonstrating some ability to get over in spite of being a very new addition to the roster. Easily one of the best current divas right now in terms of workrate and not showing any signs of letting up. Already has her niche on Smackdown carved.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Oct 22, 2011 18:06:43 GMT -5
No matter what they do for her, she doesn't seem to be able to get over. She's passable in the ring. She's got a look that is universally agreed upon as good. She has some athleticism. But the crowd does not give a damn about her in spite of everything that she's done, and she's showed very little improvement since they brought her into the company in 2007. Whereas you look at someone like Alicia or AJ and they're doing great for themselves in spite of what little they receive. I'd love to hear your definition of "Doing great for themselves." AJ absolutely dwarfs Eve in crowd reaction, and she's only coming on her second year. That's less than half Eve's tenure. Alicia Fox, on the other hand, gets about the same reaction as Eve, and that says even more; the only notable thing Fox has done since losing the Divas championship was being Maxine's pro on NXT3, and that wrapped this time last year. In that same amount of time, Eve's been shoved down our throats in a number of capacities, from random Divas champion to random pairing with Kelly Kelly. To use an example: that would be like Tyler Reks matching crowd reactions with the World Heavyweight Champion, and neither is very over. One of them is Tyler Reks. What's the other guy's excuse?
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Oct 22, 2011 18:14:11 GMT -5
I'd love to hear your definition of "Doing great for themselves." Alicia: Still employed despite being a total jobber. Not really any less over than Eve (their crowd reactions are both negligible). Substantially improved in the ring from what she was when she first got brought in. I wouldn't consider that doing great in any sense. Eve is easily as good in the ring as she is if not maybe better. Alicia is just sort of...there. I'd love to hear your definition of "Doing great for themselves." AJ: Demonstrating some ability to get over in spite of being a very new addition to the roster. Easily one of the best current divas right now in terms of workrate and not showing any signs of letting up. Already has her niche on Smackdown carved. I really think you're giving AJ too much credit here. She isn't the CM Punk of the divas division. Yes, she's good in the ring, but it's still kind of early to say that she should be a a top contender. Now I'm not saying I would really mind either Alicia or AJ in the title contention, I just think you're being a bit too hard on Eve. But then that could be my fandom speaking too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2011 18:38:17 GMT -5
Alicia: Still employed despite being a total jobber. Not really any less over than Eve (their crowd reactions are both negligible). Substantially improved in the ring from what she was when she first got brought in. I wouldn't consider that doing great in any sense. Eve is easily as good in the ring as she is if not maybe better. Alicia is just sort of...there. But what has Alicia done since joining the main roster? Win the divas' title unconvingly, job out to Melina and then do absolutely nothing but job afterwards? And she's still not any less over than Eve. AJ: Demonstrating some ability to get over in spite of being a very new addition to the roster. Easily one of the best current divas right now in terms of workrate and not showing any signs of letting up. Already has her niche on Smackdown carved. I really think you're giving AJ too much credit here. She isn't the CM Punk of the divas division. Yes, she's good in the ring, but it's still kind of early to say that she should be a a top contender. Now I'm not saying I would really mind either Alicia or AJ in the title contention, I just think you're being a bit too hard on Eve. But then that could be my fandom speaking too. How is it making her out to be the CM Punk of the division? I don't think she's the best diva on the roster but in spite of doing relatively little, she's already much more over than Eve is, and to boot is a better wrestler in the ring. I understand that I'm being critical, but I'm being critical because I think she's overpushed. She doesn't need to be jobbed out and she doesn't need to be fired. She has enough in-ring ability and enough of a look to warrant being a second-tier diva. But always being in the title picture is really quite ridiculous considering what upside she presents and how well her past pushes have fared. This is a company designed to make money and appease fans, and Eve does not net them money nor does she appease the audiences. That's why I'm a big advocate of Kelly Kelly right now. I don't care whether or not she blows in the ring like some people say, the crowd loves her and her wrestling style makes it nearly impossible for her to get injured. In the long-term she's a great investment. This is also why I'm still disappointed with WWE for turning and then firing Melina and derailing Natalya Neidhart's face run with the divas' title when she was really getting over as a champion. They really found something good with her, then they ruined that too. WWE does not exist to push who we, individual fans may like, regardless of how much we may like a given performer. But when they start acting in a way contrary to good business sense, that's when I get up and say "Hey; stir the pot!"
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Oct 22, 2011 18:55:33 GMT -5
I really enjoy Eve and wish they'd push her more actually
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Post by Old Jack Burton on Oct 22, 2011 18:56:47 GMT -5
Isn't AJ supposed to be the female Daniel Bryan? I think Kharma getting pregnant screwed up the whole long term booking of the divas division and it has not really recovered since. If I can be honest and just let my inner fanboy speak I wish WWE would just hire some more women from the indie leagues and let them keep their gimmicks as they come. Having some rough around the edges "alternative" divas would do so much more to make the division more interesting. That's what was so great about the TNA knockouts a couple of years ago. As much as Beth and Nattie say that they don't want to be like all the other divas, they still are. All the divas are pretty much interchangeable at this point to me. Victoria would be back in the WWE in about 1 second if they called her up. It was stupid to fire Serena Deeb. Sara Del Rey has said that she would wrestle for the WWE if they ever called her, as unthinkable as that seems. s***, I would take Angelina Love at this point just to have her around as the gross parody of a WWE diva she is.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Oct 22, 2011 18:57:41 GMT -5
I really think you're giving AJ too much credit here. She isn't the CM Punk of the divas division. Yes, she's good in the ring, but it's still kind of early to say that she should be a a top contender. Now I'm not saying I would really mind either Alicia or AJ in the title contention, I just think you're being a bit too hard on Eve. But then that could be my fandom speaking too. This is a company designed to make money and appease fans, and Eve does not net them money nor does she appease the audiences. That's why I'm a big advocate of Kelly Kelly right now. I don't care whether or not she blows in the ring like some people say, the crowd loves her and her wrestling style makes it nearly impossible for her to get injured. In the long-term she's a great investment. This is also why I'm still disappointed with WWE for turning and then firing Melina and derailing Natalya Neidhart's face run with the divas' title when she was really getting over as a champion. They really found something good with her, then they ruined that too. Yeah, and that's the big difference. i don't believe in pushing someone just cause they're supposedly "over." That' show we get crappy champions who can't work. Kelly and Eve both do lot's of PR work for the company and are both well liked by the company as far as I know, but Kelly just isn't very good in the ring. Eve is much better as a performer. i never used to think Kelly was that bad, but after she got put in the spotlight, I noticed it more and more. I think Eve is just flatout more talented, therefore I prefer her as champ. I realize that Eve isn't the most over Diva, but let's be honest, being the most over Diva is like being the tallest midget. Divas like Beth and Nattie aren't the most over, but they're better champions than Kelly, that's for sure. I'm not saying I even think Eve should be champion, but when you look at the other Divas, it makes the most sense for her to be in the title picture really. Also, tell me your love of Melina doesn't interfere with your opinions at all either.
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