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Post by derrtaysouth95 on Dec 11, 2011 19:31:25 GMT -5
Goldberg hands down.
WCW made him out to be a big deal and it was believable.
WWE wants Cena to be a big deal but I just can't buy him as one.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Dec 12, 2011 1:13:58 GMT -5
Overall Cena but he never reached the heights Goldberg did. For awhile there on every Nitro the whole arena would be chanting for Goldberg all night no matter who was in the ring. But his time was brief. Cena has been on top for a lot longer and this feud with Rock has given him even more exposure. Um you DO remember that most of the sound in WcW arenas was piped in, right? Really? When they were beating WWF in the ratings? I watched it live and it didn't sound piped in to me. Maybe when they were dying in their final years but not during the MNW. Besides WWE does/did it too.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Dec 12, 2011 1:38:11 GMT -5
Um you DO remember that most of the sound in WcW arenas was piped in, right? Really? When they were beating WWF in the ratings? I watched it live and it didn't sound piped in to me. Maybe when they were dying in their final years but not during the MNW. Besides WWE does/did it too. When they were on top it was the NWO/Sting feud. Goldberg came in well after Austin had turned the tide again. Kane was doing better business then Goldberg. I know there is a lot of WCW nostalgia but facts are facts. Cena has the longevity and the money and a list of accomplishments. I mean if you replaced Goldberg with any of ECW's roster this question would be downright ridiculed. Almost everything said positive about Goldberg could be said about the Sandman. Theme alone could pop a crowd. Check Everytime his them hit someone was going to die. Check Fans chanted for him. Check. Could squash someone in seconds and be the biggest pop of the night even if not in main event. Check Was over with the crowd even if treated lackluster in the WWE. Check ECW made him out to be a big deal and fans bought it. Check Was a top draw during a boom period. Check No matter how bad a show was all Heyman had to do was fire up "Enter Sandman" and send him out through the crowd and he would instantly have the crowd again. Goldberg couldn't even do that after his streak was dead. That's not saying Sandman was a bigger star. I think Goldberg was, but that's because I realize they are in two different leagues. Sandman wasn't in Goldie's league and Goldie isn't in Cena's. Cena is going down in history alongside names like Austin, Rock, Hogan and Sammartino. Goldberg is a footnote on the history of a dieing promotion.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Dec 12, 2011 3:51:03 GMT -5
^ Don't know why you quoted me considering you didn't address my point of piped in nose.
I said earlier Cena is the bigget star due to longevity but Goldberg was bigger for a very brief period of time. I'm not a fan of either guy, in fact, I hated Goldberg's stupid boring streak but people loved the guy for about a year.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Dec 12, 2011 5:12:40 GMT -5
My point was they were accused of piping in Goldberg chants back then by fans in attendance. They were already behind in the war by the time Goldberg took to the main event. I will agree there were constant chants of Goldberg throughout the night but I also think the loud ones before his entrances were sweetened quite a bit especially into his reign or when he was just squashing a nobody. Like I said though Sandman was getting chants all throughout the night sometimes. Hell Zack Ryder does now. I don't think that makes Ryder a bigger star than Cena. I think that means he has the potential though. Goldberg too had the potential unfortunately he was in WCW and all that that entailed.
I agree with you though that Goldberg probably did shine brighter for a short period of time but I still think when you answer a question like OP's you have to take everything into account.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Dec 12, 2011 6:32:23 GMT -5
It wouldn't surprise me if they had to eventually resort to piping in the Goldberg chant because he was such a one trick pony. But I remember how loud and frequent they were because it bugged the hell out of me. I wondered why these people were so desperate to see a squash match? Was it still real to them? Pretty sure they were even chanting his name on Raw during the MNW.
The Sandman comparison is not the same. The ECW crowd was a lot smaller and by numbers alone, easier to win over. I don't think Cena is going to be remembered in the same way Sammartino, Hogan and Austin are either. Watch how fast his star fades as soon as he doesn't have the WWE machine behind him. He's going to be more in the Ultimate Warrior, Luger and Sid group. Look at Batista. The number two face for awhile, he's only been gone for a year and half and he's almost forgotten already.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Dec 12, 2011 19:29:04 GMT -5
It wouldn't surprise me if they had to eventually resort to piping in the Goldberg chant because he was such a one trick pony. But I remember how loud and frequent they were because it bugged the hell out of me. I wondered why these people were so desperate to see a squash match? Was it still real to them? Pretty sure they were even chanting his name on Raw during the MNW. The Sandman comparison is not the same. The ECW crowd was a lot smaller and by numbers alone, easier to win over. I don't think Cena is going to be remembered in the same way Sammartino, Hogan and Austin are either. Watch how fast his star fades as soon as he doesn't have the WWE machine behind him. He's going to be more in the Ultimate Warrior, Luger and Sid group. Look at Batista. The number two face for awhile, he's only been gone for a year and half and he's almost forgotten already. I think Cena perfectly fits into the Bruno/Hogan/Austin/Rock category. I don't remember Bruno capturing the title but when Hogan did those who were of the Bruno generation hated it and hated Hogan. When Austin won it the Hogan fans thought that pushing a Hollywood Blonde as a bad ass was a joke. Rock faced significant backlash while on top. How people feel though changes with time. What does it change though is the record books. Cena is a 10 time champion. He has held the belt longer than anyone except Bruno, Hogan, or Backlund. Although his gate's aren't the record breaking ones Rock and Austin brought he's certainly in the top 5 all time merchandise sellers at this point. With a longevity at top greater then Warrior, Sid and Luger combined. That's just the numbers part. Like Bruno, Hogan, and Rock, and unlike Warrior or Sid, Cena is respected by his peers in the business and more have praised him then have criticized him. Nobody released save Chavo have really said they didn't like working with Cena. Then there is the out of ring stuff. The guy has left an undeniable big legacy of the good deeds he has done. Unless he offs the wife and kids or does a porn with Chyna I don't think he's fading away from WWE. If he retired at this WM he would still be making money for years down the line for Vince, like Austin, Rock and Hogan do.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 12, 2011 22:59:47 GMT -5
Didn't WCW pipe in chants and crowd noise even during the height of their popularity? It's a good way to get the crowd to chant what they wanted them to chant.
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Post by The Deadly Snake on Dec 13, 2011 4:50:33 GMT -5
Didn't WCW pipe in chants and crowd noise even during the height of their popularity? It's a good way to get the crowd to chant what they wanted them to chant. WCW was just a crazy and wild place, there left hand did not know what their right food was eating. Yes, I wrote that. It's not a mistake.
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Red Lion
Dennis Stamp
Put your mask on!
Posts: 4,002
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Post by Red Lion on Dec 13, 2011 10:34:19 GMT -5
Goldberg, but only because he was around during a boom period. Yes and yes
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Post by sfvega on Dec 14, 2011 2:01:50 GMT -5
Goldberg was the bigger star. The question was who was the bigger star. Cena has the better career and longevity and a billion title reigns with a belt that gets bounced around quite a bit. But him being a smaller star for a longer period of time isn't a good argument for him being a bigger star. Goldberg had a bigger wrestling audience aware of him and had mainstream appeal. As much as WWE tries to push Cena to have mainstream appeal with movies that, by and large, no one outside of a wrestling-related audience has seen, he's not that guy. Which isn't to say Goldberg is the Rock of sorts, but he was HUGE during and a little bit after his run (though mostly a residual effect). Cena has never been that big. Only to a smaller wrestling audience in total. To make a comparison, Goldberg is like Steve Young to your Cena's Curtis Martin. Regardless of a shortened prime, Young was still a big star. As was Bill.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 2:54:39 GMT -5
For what it's worth, there was a period of a few years where I couldn't go anywhere without seeing a bunch of Goldberg shirts.
I saw at least 50 times as many Goldberg shirts in Goldberg's prime than I see Cena shirts now, in fact, probably a lot more than 50 times as many.
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