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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 0:20:54 GMT -5
and whoever said she should be wrestling men - please go and work under Vince Russo in some wrestling programme I'll never have the danger of accidentally watching. Could you please elucidate your reasons as to why you, personally, don't want to see SDR wrestling men?
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Post by Alex Shelley on Nov 20, 2011 0:25:51 GMT -5
I'd have her wrestle guys as well. I wouldn't have her be cocky about it, maybe do what they were gonna do with Taylor Wilde in WWE and what they were gonna do with her in WSX. Have her be a masked male wrestler, cover up her body. The Boy from Mexico?
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Post by bestthateverdidit on Nov 20, 2011 0:33:49 GMT -5
because I don't want to see women wrestling men. There is an unavoidably sexual aspect to it, and not only that, women are significantly smaller than men. And to those of you who would point to the likes of Rey Mysterio, yes, he is small, but he has significantly more musclemass and lower bodyfat than the vast majority of female athletes.
Women should wrestle other women. Simple as that. It also helps the prestige of the women's title, and if a woman bypasses the whole women's division it makes the fans think that women's wrestling is a joke, and only 'real' women wrestlers would compete against men.
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JoDaNa1281
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Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Nov 20, 2011 0:35:57 GMT -5
Honestly I'm not sure what you do with her in WWE. I've seen her in person at ROH shows at the Davis Arena and haven't been especially impressed (she hilariously missed a kick against Daizee Haze in a groan worthy moment). She's not really enough of an amazon to be a Beth Phoenix type, and not attractive enough to be a regular diva. She would also need to lose some weight since she clearly has a gut, heh. Del Rey might have a brief WWE run before they lost interest in her. I think she would fit in better in TNA. She'd also have to get rid of those hideous Painted-on eyebrows. Unless she wanted to paint on sideburns and a beard, too (like WCW Hogan). She hasn't had the painted on eyebrows for almost 2 years.
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Post by Alex Shelley on Nov 20, 2011 0:38:16 GMT -5
There is an unavoidably sexual aspect to it Not really any more than wrestling already is. If you read something sexual into it, that says something about you. Don't let your hang ups get in the way of the rest of our entertainment. Having seen plenty of mixed sex legit combat sports, and participated in a few of my own, I've never encountered an issue because of that. and not only that, women are significantly smaller than men. And to those of you who would point to the likes of Rey Mysterio, yes, he is small, but he has significantly more musclemass and lower bodyfat than the vast majority of female athletes. So you would be okay with Kong wrestling men? ;D
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Post by bestthateverdidit on Nov 20, 2011 0:55:53 GMT -5
There is an unavoidably sexual aspect to it Not really any more than wrestling already is. If you read something sexual into it, that says something about you. Don't let your hang ups get in the way of the rest of our entertainment. Having seen plenty of mixed sex legit combat sports, and participated in a few of my own, I've never encountered an issue because of that. and not only that, women are significantly smaller than men. And to those of you who would point to the likes of Rey Mysterio, yes, he is small, but he has significantly more musclemass and lower bodyfat than the vast majority of female athletes. So you would be okay with Kong wrestling men? ;D You haven't dealt with my main point. By having her wrestle men, it downgrades the women's division even further, and has the great effect of de-legitimizing women's sports.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 20, 2011 0:56:36 GMT -5
How about just building a serious and credible women's division where women wrestle other women?
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Post by Alex Shelley on Nov 20, 2011 1:00:56 GMT -5
Not really any more than wrestling already is. If you read something sexual into it, that says something about you. Don't let your hang ups get in the way of the rest of our entertainment. Having seen plenty of mixed sex legit combat sports, and participated in a few of my own, I've never encountered an issue because of that. So you would be okay with Kong wrestling men? ;D You haven't dealt with my main point. By having her wrestle men, it downgrades the women's division even further, and has the great effect of de-legitimizing women's sports. It doesn't downgrade it any more than a cruiserweight wrestling a heavyweight downgrades a cruiserweight title. Which is to say, in my opinion, not at all. Although honestly, if it's simply a matter of size, which is what everybody claims, then I wouldn't be opposed to scrapping a women's division altogether and replacing it with a legitimate cruiserweight division where women and men can wrestle.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 1:09:31 GMT -5
because I don't want to see women wrestling men. There is an unavoidably sexual aspect to it There's an unavoidably sexual aspect to man-vs-man pro wrestling, but last I checked, we weren't trying to shut that down to stop certain men and women from taking prurient delight in that. The ratio of SDR's muscle mass to DBD's muscle mass is higher than the ratio of the 1-2-3 kid's muscle mass vs Diesel's muscle mass, yet the 1-2-3 kid's upset spurned a major story line. See which, comparisons of Rey Mysterio to Big Show. In other words, SDR vs DBD is far less of a mismatch than Rey Mysterio vs Big Show. Agreed that it makes a women's division look bad, and that if you're going to run the angle of "can run with the guys", you can never put them in the Diva division. Even in a sport with no physical strength aspect that we still mind-bogglingly semi-segregate (insert rant here) there have been exceptional women who refuse to partake in the segregated half. Judit Polgar, who has cracked the top 10 overall in world chess rankings and has made it as deep as the "final 8" to determine the #1 contender for the world championship, is one such example. Although honestly, if it's simply a matter of size, which is what everybody claims, then I wouldn't be opposed to scrapping a women's division altogether and replacing it with a legitimate cruiserweight division where women and men can wrestle. I approve of this measure for not just pro wrestling but also for all legitimate fight sports where we already segregate by weight class.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 1:16:28 GMT -5
I wish I had Booker T near by to say "These people are outta dey damn mind!"
Seriously......Man vs. woman violence? Yeah....That'll put butts in the seats. In the deep south maybe.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 1:29:08 GMT -5
I wish I had Booker T near by to say "These people are outta dey damn mind!" Seriously......Man vs. woman violence? Yeah....That'll put butts in the seats. In the deep south maybe. There's no equality from a pedestal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 1:31:08 GMT -5
I wish I had Booker T near by to say "These people are outta dey damn mind!" Seriously......Man vs. woman violence? Yeah....That'll put butts in the seats. In the deep south maybe. There's no equality from a pedestal. And now the thread is a statement on society. Way to go! *HIGH FIVES ALL AROUND*
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Post by bestthateverdidit on Nov 20, 2011 1:32:09 GMT -5
lol to the guy who said they should start using women in legitimate fighting sports against men. What kinds of sick bastards would want to watch a woman vs man fight in the UFC? Most of their audience would disappear, and the sport would probably be banned. Wrestling may be a work, but it is presented as a physical sport, and as such, women and men do not belong in the ring together.
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Post by Alex Shelley on Nov 20, 2011 1:38:45 GMT -5
lol to the guy who said they should start using women in legitimate fighting sports against men. What kinds of sick bastards would want to watch a woman vs man fight in the UFC? Most of their audience would disappear, and the sport would probably be banned. Wrestling may be a work, but it is presented as a physical sport, and as such, women and men do not belong in the ring together. I'm confused about how that's a "sick bastard" thing, honestly. How would the sport be banned? That's a little overboard, don't you think? Mixed sex martial arts fights happen all the time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 1:42:05 GMT -5
There's no equality from a pedestal. And now the thread is a statement on society. Way to go! *HIGH FIVES ALL AROUND* .. and insulting 100 million American people with a single bigoted statement wasn't a statement on society? lol to the guy who said they should start using women in legitimate fighting sports against men. What kinds of sick bastards would want to watch a woman vs man fight in the UFC? Most of their audience would disappear, and the sport would probably be banned. Women have been fighting men in their weight class in serious competition and holding their own. I guess I'm trying to stress "in their weight class" enough since it seems to be going unheeded. Throwing Cyborg in against Brock Lesnar would be sick, and I think Cyborg's the only one crazy enough to want that fight. But throw her in a fight with a 145# man, and explain to me how it's not going to be a competitive fight? By the way, we have quote buttons, so you don't have to say "lol to the guy who.."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 1:47:08 GMT -5
.. and insulting 100 million American people with a single bigoted statement wasn't a statement on society? Yep. I'm a total bigot. You pegged me bro. #cornetteface A VERY VERY small minority of the people in the world want to see a woman get punched and kicked in the head, choked, and beaten up by a man. It's just a fact. The vast majority of the people that would want to see it are the people from the darkest edges of society.
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Post by Alex Shelley on Nov 20, 2011 1:51:06 GMT -5
.. and insulting 100 million American people with a single bigoted statement wasn't a statement on society? Yep. I'm a total bigot. You pegged me bro. #cornetteface A VERY VERY small minority of the people in the world want to see a woman get punched and kicked in the head, choked, and beaten up by a man. It's just a fact. The vast majority of the people that would want to see it are the people from the darkest edges of society. How is it any different from two men beating each other up, if they're the same size? How is it any more dark than that?
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Post by Lazy peon on Nov 20, 2011 1:55:35 GMT -5
Have her job like it's going out of style. I'd just have her job to Kelly Kelly in 5 seconds. Naturally, that's how long it takes her to do a roll-up.
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Post by Wrestling Curmudgeon on Nov 20, 2011 1:57:34 GMT -5
How would you book her? Would you have her squashing lower-tier Divas out the gate, ala Kharma, or would you shoot her straight to the top and have her immediately in a title program? Also, how would you book her: Indy sensation now in the WWE, or all new character? And what kind of storylines would you put her in?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 4:09:20 GMT -5
.. and insulting 100 million American people with a single bigoted statement wasn't a statement on society? Yep. I'm a total bigot. You pegged me bro. #cornetteface You portrayed 100 million Americans with a single statement based solely on geographical and cultural boundaries, that's pretty much the very model of a bigoted statement. Of course, I never said you were a "total bigot" or even any sort of bigot, because I don't know what's going on inside your head. Only pointing out that your "oh, NOW it's a cultural statement!" sarcasm is completely misplaced given who actually started talking about cultures. Again, how is it any different between two men doing it also in the context of an athletic sporting context. Are you really that incapable of separating the context of an evenly matched athletic contest from an S&M fetish video or a mainstream "torture porn" movie? If context doesn't matter, then there are an immensely greater number of people with violent sexual hangups than you are giving credit for, given the excessive popularity of Xena and Buffy and Alias and the countless minor variants (Relic Hunter, Sheena, She Spies, and many others) which were, at their core, nothing more than an hour of women punching, kicking in the head, choking and beating up (and oh yeah, KILLING) dozens of men in rapid-fire succession as if they were 50 point ducks in a shooting gallery. If all you have to say to that is "but men are stronger, so in THAT case it's okay", then your argument has no merit in this case, since we are talking about comparing two equally strong athletes -- the whole point of normalizing by weight class. It's like that old riddle, "which is heavier, a pound of feathers or a pound of gold?" Surely THAT doesn't have you stumped as well? For that matter, following your sexism to its logical conclusion, woman-vs-woman MMA should be twice as bad, since it has twice as much violence against women, yet since evenly matched woman-vs-woman MMA is acceptable to you, evenly matched man-vs-woman fights should be even more so, as it only has half the misogyny. Buy a vinyl repair kit, patch up the holes in your argument, and get back to me.
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