Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
|
Post by Celgress on Nov 21, 2011 13:42:24 GMT -5
Indeed the Rock is and thats', one of the reasons, why we love 'im. ;D
|
|
zeez
Patti Mayonnaise
Yeah. That's right.
Posts: 32,702
|
Post by zeez on Nov 21, 2011 13:51:53 GMT -5
Of course The Rock is a douche, but he's our douche.
|
|
Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,491
|
Post by Ben Wyatt on Nov 21, 2011 14:06:50 GMT -5
Here's a summary of their feud as played out on TV
Rock: Im back and calling out Cena! Cena: Boo you left!
*Rock then cuts pre-traped promos calling out Cena for being "talentless" and also mocking his fanbase with the rediculous fruity pebbles stuff over the next few appearances
Cena: So? I love performing for my fans, no matter the age. And by the way, you pretty much left again after saying you're back.
Cena AA's the Rock
Rock costs Cena the title
Rock: Dont make me kick your ass (catchphrases)
They agree to fight at Mania.
Cena: Rock, be my partner at SS
Rock: Ok. FRUITY PEBBLES! KIDS LIKE YOU!! LADY PARTS!!!!
They win the match....annnnnnnd Rock attacks Cena.
Lord, I hate this feud
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,292
|
Post by The Ichi on Nov 21, 2011 14:08:15 GMT -5
Cena's character isnt supposed to be a dick, Unless Im missing something here. So, we don't like when he's an old-fashioned "Sat AM" babyface, but we don't like when he's a dick either? What the hell do we want him to be then? Gone? I think if Cena went full on dick (...god, that sounded wrong) people would love it. The problem is he's portrayed as a squeaky clean nice guy, so his dickish actions (which I feel are overblown here but I digress) can be seen by many as him being somewhat of a hypocrite considering his pitching of Rise Above Hate. If you're gonna be a dick, go all out. Don't hide behind a nice persona. That's the difference between Rock and Cena to people, I guess. Me, I'm usually in the small camp that likes Cena's humble character, but I think the writers need to make an exception here and give Cena an edge. He just looks like a complete clownshoes next to The Rock with his Rise Above Hate shirt and gettig owned at every turn (complete with shrugging and "aw, shucks Rock!"). Grow some balls, John.
|
|
|
Post by Wolf Hurricane on Nov 21, 2011 14:17:17 GMT -5
So, we don't like when he's an old-fashioned "Sat AM" babyface, but we don't like when he's a dick either? What the hell do we want him to be then? Gone? I think if Cena went full on dick (...god, that sounded wrong) people would love it. The problem is he's portrayed as a squeaky clean nice guy, so his dickish actions (which I feel are overblown here but I digress) can be seen by many as him being somewhat of a hypocrite considering his pitching of Rise Above Hate. If you're gonna be a dick, go all out. Don't hide behind a nice persona. That's the difference between Rock and Cena to people, I guess. Me, I'm usually in the small camp that likes Cena's humble character, but I think the writers need to make an exception here and give Cena an edge. He just looks like a complete clownshoes next to The Rock with his Rise Above Hate shirt and gettig owned at every turn (complete with shrugging and "aw, shucks Rock!"). Grow some balls, John. There isn't a single thing you've said here that I disagree with. Along with you, I don't really have a problem with Cena being the honest guy; what I do have a problem with is Cena being so goddamn nice for no reason ALL THE TIME! Hell, admittedly, one of the reasons I wasn't a major Cena fan at one time was because I felt he didn't take things seriously. But this year's pretty much made me root for Cena. At the same time, it's made me that much more frustrated that he won't get aggressive; especially concerning the Rock, who's pretty much punked him out at every other turn. I mean, damn! It's not like he'll lose fans if he gets mad. Goku was at his best when he was mad, and so is every other childhood superhero. Grow some balls, John!
|
|
|
Post by Bruce Leroy on Nov 21, 2011 14:18:21 GMT -5
So, we don't like when he's an old-fashioned "Sat AM" babyface, but we don't like when he's a dick either? What the hell do we want him to be then? Gone? I think if Cena went full on dick (...god, that sounded wrong) people would love it. The problem is he's portrayed as a squeaky clean nice guy, so his dickish actions (which I feel are overblown here but I digress) can be seen by many as him being somewhat of a hypocrite considering his pitching of Rise Above Hate. If you're gonna be a dick, go all out. Don't hide behind a nice persona. That's the difference between Rock and Cena to people, I guess. Me, I'm usually in the small camp that likes Cena's humble character, but I think the writers need to make an exception here and give Cena an edge. He just looks like a complete clownshoes next to The Rock with his Rise Above Hate shirt and gettig owned at every turn (complete with shrugging and "aw, shucks Rock!"). Grow some balls, John. This is the same thing that I had in mind. The Rock is unapologetic with his douchebaggery, but Cena tries to portray himself as squeaky clean but comes off as totally self-righteous and doesn't realize how his actions hurt others. It's the hypocrisy why Cena gets so much flack... It doesn't help that Rock put on a better show after a 7 year lay-off than Cena has for a long time now, save for a few really awesome performances.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Nov 21, 2011 14:24:30 GMT -5
So, we don't like when he's an old-fashioned "Sat AM" babyface, but we don't like when he's a dick either? What the hell do we want him to be then? Gone? I think if Cena went full on dick (...god, that sounded wrong) people would love it. The problem is he's portrayed as a squeaky clean nice guy, so his dickish actions (which I feel are overblown here but I digress) can be seen by many as him being somewhat of a hypocrite considering his pitching of Rise Above Hate. If you're gonna be a dick, go all out. Don't hide behind a nice persona. That's the difference between Rock and Cena to people, I guess. Me, I'm usually in the small camp that likes Cena's humble character, but I think the writers need to make an exception here and give Cena an edge. He just looks like a complete clownshoes next to The Rock with his Rise Above Hate shirt and gettig owned at every turn (complete with shrugging and "aw, shucks Rock!"). Grow some balls, John. so you don't like characters who are basically nice guys with tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BerserkButtonYou don't want to have to tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BewareTheNiceOnesCena does that kind of stuff in his matches. And even post matches. And he always gets called out on it. People like JBL and Batista give him s*** ands then they quit on him before he can really lay them. THey run and hide behind stipulations to avoid having to endure the same things tey do to him. So he says screw it, risks whatever might happen for breaking the rules and does it anyway. And people get on him for that. I feel like people here have a very limited definition of having balls
|
|
|
Post by cabbageboy on Nov 21, 2011 14:24:36 GMT -5
I think it was last night's endlessly tedious Rock promo that finally got me to realize how little I really missed the guy. The Rock isn't as much of a relic of Russo Era WWF as Austin, but at least Austin had the common sense to retire and largely stay away from wrestling. Also, on Tough Enough Austin showed us a different side of Austin (even though the draw was him skewering these rookies).
But Rock? I see no character development from the guy. He's almost literally the same character he was in Dec. 1997, except now with more credibility. The Rock's initial gimmick was that of a brazen braggart who talked smack and couldn't back anything up without massive Nation help. Besides, I don't see the point of spending so much TV time to let this guy blather on and on in ways that may draw quarter hours, but really do nothing for hyping actual matches on PPV or put anyone else over.
Dwayne Johnson isn't a bad guy or a backstage cancer. The Rock as a character however is a complete dick whose attitude and promos do nothing other than get himself over. Further, there's no one that even dares to puncture his ego balloon at all. In the past these promos worked in feuds with guys like Austin and HHH who could take the abuse on the mic, but Cena's support is dubious at best. There's no Foley to finally berate Rock and call him a prick. There's no Jericho to finally stand up to Rock's verbal abuse and hit him with a chair. Not even Hurricane to torment Rock and get the better of him in backstage bits. It's all just Rock cutting these tired, long winded promos from afar, or even at the arena with minimal interference, and it does nothing to get anyone over other than himself.
|
|
|
Post by wrestling4ever on Nov 21, 2011 14:25:21 GMT -5
Here's a summary of their feud as played out on TV Rock: Im back and calling out Cena! Cena: Boo you left! *Rock then cuts pre-traped promos calling out Cena for being "talentless" and also mocking his fanbase with the rediculous fruity pebbles stuff over the next few appearances Cena: So? I love performing for my fans, no matter the age. And by the way, you pretty much left again after saying you're back. Cena AA's the Rock Rock costs Cena the title Rock: Dont make me kick your ass (catchphrases) They agree to fight at Mania. Cena: Rock, be my partner at SS Rock: Ok. FRUITY PEBBLES! KIDS LIKE YOU!! LADY PARTS!!!! They win the match....annnnnnnd Rock attacks Cena. Lord, I hate this feud Its great. But to each its own. I dont over analyze things like this. Its cartoony, its cheesy, and its what WWE is all about at times.
|
|
|
Post by wrestling4ever on Nov 21, 2011 14:29:00 GMT -5
I think it was last night's endlessly tedious Rock promo that finally got me to realize how little I really missed the guy. The Rock isn't as much of a relic of Russo Era WWF as Austin, but at least Austin had the common sense to retire and largely stay away from wrestling. Also, on Tough Enough Austin showed us a different side of Austin (even though the draw was him skewering these rookies). But Rock? I see no character development from the guy. He's almost literally the same character he was in Dec. 1997, except now with more credibility. The Rock's initial gimmick was that of a brazen braggart who talked smack and couldn't back anything up without massive Nation help. Besides, I don't see the point of spending so much TV time to let this guy blather on and on in ways that may draw quarter hours, but really do nothing for hyping actual matches on PPV or put anyone else over. Dwayne Johnson isn't a bad guy or a backstage cancer. The Rock as a character however is a complete dick whose attitude and promos do nothing other than get himself over. Further, there's no one that even dares to puncture his ego balloon at all. In the past these promos worked in feuds with guys like Austin and HHH who could take the abuse on the mic, but Cena's support is dubious at best. There's no Foley to finally berate Rock and call him a prick. There's no Jericho to finally stand up to Rock's verbal abuse and hit him with a chair. Not even Hurricane to torment Rock and get the better of him in backstage bits. It's all just Rock cutting these tired, long winded promos from afar, or even at the arena with minimal interference, and it does nothing to get anyone over other than himself. Austin largely stayed away from wrestling after retirement? Thats news to me. Also, I think the reason why Rock hasnt really developed in 2011 is because hes not supposed to. Its supposed to be past vs present so it wouldn't be right if it didn't have that nostalgic vs current feel. Past vs Present. Makes a good dynamic IMO.
|
|
DragonMasterP
King Koopa
Wait, I turned 30? How'd that happen?
Posts: 11,987
|
Post by DragonMasterP on Nov 21, 2011 14:30:52 GMT -5
I agree with the idea that Rock is supposed to be a dick, and that's his thing, just like Cena being goody two-shoes is his thing.
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,292
|
Post by The Ichi on Nov 21, 2011 14:37:59 GMT -5
I think if Cena went full on dick (...god, that sounded wrong) people would love it. The problem is he's portrayed as a squeaky clean nice guy, so his dickish actions (which I feel are overblown here but I digress) can be seen by many as him being somewhat of a hypocrite considering his pitching of Rise Above Hate. If you're gonna be a dick, go all out. Don't hide behind a nice persona. That's the difference between Rock and Cena to people, I guess. Me, I'm usually in the small camp that likes Cena's humble character, but I think the writers need to make an exception here and give Cena an edge. He just looks like a complete clownshoes next to The Rock with his Rise Above Hate shirt and gettig owned at every turn (complete with shrugging and "aw, shucks Rock!"). Grow some balls, John. so you don't like characters who are basically nice guys with tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BerserkButtonYou don't want to have to tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BewareTheNiceOnesCena does that kind of stuff in his matches. And even post matches. And he always gets called out on it. People like JBL and Batista give him s*** ands then they quit on him before he can really lay them. THey run and hide behind stipulations to avoid having to endure the same things tey do to him. So he says screw it, risks whatever might happen for breaking the rules and does it anyway. And people get on him for that. I feel like people here have a very limited definition of having balls All I'm saying is that its time for Cena to flip out. He has every justification in the World to do so. He can't win this by doing the nice guy with a berserk button act, he's up against greatness, he needs to stop holding back.
|
|
|
Post by Lance Uppercut on Nov 21, 2011 14:38:52 GMT -5
Rock's always been a prick, it's his thing. Does no one remember the rude, unnecessary shots he used to take at Stephanie (especially considering the outrage Lawler tends to get around here when he mocks Vickie)? Does no one remember how he used to treat Mick Foley? He's rude and he's mean, and it's why people love him. let's not forget his totally not being a STAR treatment to Kevin Kelly and The Coach, and his walking sexual harassment of the Divas and Lillian Garcia.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Nov 21, 2011 14:39:07 GMT -5
I think it was last night's endlessly tedious Rock promo that finally got me to realize how little I really missed the guy. The Rock isn't as much of a relic of Russo Era WWF as Austin, but at least Austin had the common sense to retire and largely stay away from wrestling. Also, on Tough Enough Austin showed us a different side of Austin (even though the draw was him skewering these rookies). But Rock? I see no character development from the guy. He's almost literally the same character he was in Dec. 1997, except now with more credibility. The Rock's initial gimmick was that of a brazen braggart who talked smack and couldn't back anything up without massive Nation help. Besides, I don't see the point of spending so much TV time to let this guy blather on and on in ways that may draw quarter hours, but really do nothing for hyping actual matches on PPV or put anyone else over. Foley tried to humanize him in their feuds. It never worked.
|
|
Marty McFry
Don Corleone
"She was mine before she was yours.... Wooooo"
Posts: 1,657
|
Post by Marty McFry on Nov 21, 2011 14:46:14 GMT -5
"you watch, you listen, I'm gonna show you one more time then you get the f--- outta here"
Nothing douchey about that. I marked!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2011 15:44:28 GMT -5
I think if Cena went full on dick (...god, that sounded wrong) people would love it. The problem is he's portrayed as a squeaky clean nice guy, so his dickish actions (which I feel are overblown here but I digress) can be seen by many as him being somewhat of a hypocrite considering his pitching of Rise Above Hate. If you're gonna be a dick, go all out. Don't hide behind a nice persona. That's the difference between Rock and Cena to people, I guess. Me, I'm usually in the small camp that likes Cena's humble character, but I think the writers need to make an exception here and give Cena an edge. He just looks like a complete clownshoes next to The Rock with his Rise Above Hate shirt and gettig owned at every turn (complete with shrugging and "aw, shucks Rock!"). Grow some balls, John. so you don't like characters who are basically nice guys with tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BerserkButtonYou don't want to have to tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BewareTheNiceOnesCena does that kind of stuff in his matches. And even post matches. And he always gets called out on it. People like JBL and Batista give him s*** ands then they quit on him before he can really lay them. THey run and hide behind stipulations to avoid having to endure the same things tey do to him. So he says screw it, risks whatever might happen for breaking the rules and does it anyway. And people get on him for that. I feel like people here have a very limited definition of having balls Then why not do it now? Cena was the one who called out Rock in the first place. Now when challenged, he goes into non-aggressor mode. I don't care how you slice it, that's NOT having balls.
|
|
|
Post by joebob27 on Nov 21, 2011 15:47:46 GMT -5
Miz has stood up to Rock, why can't Cena? This is a character defining moment for Cena. Either he will snap or take the abuse and then have another one of his "laugh it off, I'm superman" moments and beat Rock at WM, which will drain his character even more.
Me if I'm booking, I have him KILL Punk tonight. ADR esapes his rampage through the crowd or something, not to define Cena as a full heel. He needs to get back at the people that have "wronged" him or don't respect him.
And if that makes him a heel, oh well, it's not like he won't push merchandise, he'll push merchandise to a different crowd.
|
|
Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
|
Post by Madagascar Fred on Nov 21, 2011 16:08:32 GMT -5
The Rock just comes off really insecure to me. A guy who constantly needs to remind everyone how great he is by telling us "Hey I'm great." while simultaneously crapping on everyone else just comes off as very very insecure. I remember him trying to call out the Miz by claiming that "Anyone who runs around saying they're awesome all the time probably isn't" without a hint of irony considering he's the WWE's biggest self-aggrandizer. DING DING DING we have a winner! of course the Lil Jimmies aren't smart enough to realize this
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Nov 21, 2011 16:11:30 GMT -5
I'm fine with Cena when he does edgier things. I think he gets unfairly criticized because he's not playing 80's Sting (the lawfully good idiot). The only problem with Cena tends to be the way he's booked, but that's not really all on him. Most of his dickish moments, though, are things that I don't think are bad at all. People complained when he buried Wade Barrett under chairs, which is odd considering that Wade was supposed to be the biggest of the biggest dicks on the roster and who once had his group vehicularly assault a man who did absolutely nothing. I think people will reach for reasons to criticize his actions, none of which are as bad as the people he does them to, generally.
Other than that, if he wants to duct tape Batista's feet to the mat in a last man standing match, great. It's a clever way to win, and I don't think heels are the only ones who can be clever.
That said. Yeah, Rock is a douche. He's always been, that's his character and I've always liked it. Are there faults to it? Absolutely, but he always played it in a compelling and interesting way to me. That's also the guy Cena complained a few years back of not coming back. Cena pretty much gets what he deserves for calling out someone who had retired if that person then makes them look like a fool.
|
|
|
Post by wrestling4ever on Nov 21, 2011 16:15:04 GMT -5
The Rock just comes off really insecure to me. A guy who constantly needs to remind everyone how great he is by telling us "Hey I'm great." while simultaneously crapping on everyone else just comes off as very very insecure. I remember him trying to call out the Miz by claiming that "Anyone who runs around saying they're awesome all the time probably isn't" without a hint of irony considering he's the WWE's biggest self-aggrandizer. DING DING DING we have a winner! of course the Lil Jimmies aren't smart enough to realize this Wasn't anything special about that statement. Just describing another trait of a character Dwayne has been portraying for years now.
|
|