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Post by molson5 on Jul 6, 2012 13:54:49 GMT -5
{Spoiler}Cena wins. He basically has a 50% win record on PPV over the last few years but in the build up to every match he's involved in there will still be a few people who swear that there's no way he could possibly lose. His win record isn't great yes, but usually whenever he loses he follows up with a win in the overall feud anyway. That's what people mean by "Cena wins". It doesn't matter what happens in the feud, because he'll RISE ABOVE HATE and win in the end. Some people complain about that sure, but the smark claim being debunked there is "Cena NEVER loses!" which definitely is proclaimed all the time around here, and it's usually claimed in the context of "I'm not ordering that PPV because I know Cena will win" kind of stuff. Same with the Vince and hosses things. Sure, some people complain that he'll give more breaks to the bigger guys, but the smark claim being debunked there is "Vince only pushes Hosses", which has been around forever and gets less true every year.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 6, 2012 13:55:14 GMT -5
His win record isn't great yes, but usually whenever he loses he follows up with a win in the overall feud anyway. That's what people mean by "Cena wins". It doesn't matter what happens in the feud, because he'll RISE ABOVE HATE and win in the end. He lost feuds to CM Punk, Alberto Del Rio and The Rock in the past year. That's more than any other top babyface has lost. How did he lose a feud to Del Rio? He beat Del Rio clean for title, pinned him in another match and only lost the belt because he was locked out of the HIAC when Del Rio belt up Punk with a pipe. Punk and Rock, yeah but everyone else he beat and beat easily.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Jul 6, 2012 14:04:08 GMT -5
He lost feuds to CM Punk, Alberto Del Rio and The Rock in the past year. That's more than any other top babyface has lost. How did he lose a feud to Del Rio? He beat Del Rio clean for title, pinned him in another match and only lost the belt because he was locked out of the HIAC when Del Rio belt up Punk with a pipe. He lost a final Last Man Standing match to Del Rio at Vengeance after Miz and Truth ran in.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 6, 2012 14:18:56 GMT -5
How did he lose a feud to Del Rio? He beat Del Rio clean for title, pinned him in another match and only lost the belt because he was locked out of the HIAC when Del Rio belt up Punk with a pipe. He lost a final Last Man Standing match to Del Rio at Vengeance after Miz and Truth ran in. That was another one of those "Cena destroys ( insert opponent here) but loses because of something flukey" matches wasn't it? I can remember Cena dominating and would swear he won. As a matter of fact, I thought that was the match he won the WWE Title in before losing it at HIAC when Miz and Truth interfered. Guess I am getting things backwards.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Jul 6, 2012 14:25:18 GMT -5
He lost a final Last Man Standing match to Del Rio at Vengeance after Miz and Truth ran in. That was another one of those "Cena destroys ( insert opponent here) but loses because of something flukey" matches wasn't it? I can remember Cena dominating and would swear he won. As a matter of fact, I thought that was the match he won the WWE Title in before losing it at HIAC when Miz and Truth interfered. Guess I am getting things backwards. He won the title at Night of Champions in a very typical no frills Cena match ala Cena/Truth at Capitol Punishment.
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Post by The Gambler Fan on Jul 6, 2012 14:34:22 GMT -5
Hart and Michaels were not draws.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jul 6, 2012 15:41:49 GMT -5
"WWE will never get behind X indy darling" is pretty dead. all it needs in Undertaker taking it out back, shooting it and burying it.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,304
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Post by The Ichi on Jul 6, 2012 15:42:35 GMT -5
Macho Man raped Stephanie.
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Ryanar
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,429
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Post by Ryanar on Jul 6, 2012 15:48:41 GMT -5
THE FANS only want blonde Barbie models with implants. There's only 3 1/2 blonde divas on the roster, and a lot of the divas don't have breast implants these days. fixaroonie
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 6, 2012 15:49:08 GMT -5
While we are on Cena overload a bit, it really isn't as bad as it's made out to be. Take away the recaps, and he actually has only a very small presence on the show. Last year, during the rise of CM Punk, Cena was nothing more than a belt pillow for Punk to take the title from. And when Cena did get the title back from Del Rio, he was pretty much an afterthought. He wouldn't have main evented Survivor Series if it wasn't for The Rock coming back.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 6, 2012 15:53:37 GMT -5
"WWE is in a down period on par with New Generation, look at the ratings"
Actually, while they're not a pop culture fad on par with their Attitude peak, they're doing quite well for themselves in the face of MMA's current popularity and a wider palatte of entertainment options that didn't exist a decade ago in the US market.
With so many new channels, the rise of DVRs and fans just going to YouTube to find the segments/matches they want to see, it's highly unlikely that the 1998-2001 product would garner the same share of cable ratings if it aired in 2012- in fact, I doubt it would go above 5.1. All things considered I'd dare say we're currently in a "baby boom" period, TNA excluded.
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Post by xCompackx on Jul 6, 2012 16:32:56 GMT -5
"Triple H buries everyone"
My god what an exaggeration. I wont deny that he dominated Raw from 2003-2006ish but it's astonishing that people still think he "buried" anyone. Triple H made Batista and Randy Orton stars with Evolution, lost to Cena at WM 22, put over Taker 2 years in a row at Wrestlemania and only faced CM Punk because Kevin Nash was too unhealthy. What's the worst he's done, Pedigreed London and Kendrick?
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jul 6, 2012 17:16:38 GMT -5
As far as pushing bodybuilder types, I feel it's also worth bringing up Sheamus. It's hard to believe that they would stick with his current push on a smaller guy that was getting the same level of apathy from the crowd. Sheamus might not be the top featured feud but they do allow his feuds to be his feuds, contrast to Punk/Bryan who are performers in AJ's feud. From what I've read, Sheamus always gets a really good reactions at the house shows and his tv reactions have gotten better since WrestleMania. Actually that's a good claim that isn't true, that Sheamus isn't over.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 6, 2012 17:19:02 GMT -5
"Triple H buries everyone" My god what an exaggeration. I wont deny that he dominated Raw from 2003-2006ish but it's astonishing that people still think he "buried" anyone. Triple H made Batista and Randy Orton stars with Evolution, lost to Cena at WM 22, put over Taker 2 years in a row at Wrestlemania and only faced CM Punk because Kevin Nash was too unhealthy. What's the worst he's done, Pedigreed London and Kendrick? People have different definitions of the word "buried," and it's silly to argue about it. I'm pretty liberal about it; I think it can apply when someone makes another person look bad on TV for no productive reason. HHH does that sometimes, yes. Also, are you listerning to yourself? Triple H doesn't bury people, unless you count 2003-2006? Uh, sure, and the Titanic was a great boat except for that time it sank.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 6, 2012 17:22:11 GMT -5
"Triple H buries everyone" My god what an exaggeration. I wont deny that he dominated Raw from 2003-2006ish but it's astonishing that people still think he "buried" anyone. Triple H made Batista and Randy Orton stars with Evolution, lost to Cena at WM 22, put over Taker 2 years in a row at Wrestlemania and only faced CM Punk because Kevin Nash was too unhealthy. What's the worst he's done, Pedigreed London and Kendrick? People have different definitions of the word "buried," and it's silly to argue about it. I'm pretty liberal about it; I think it can apply when someone makes another person look bad on TV for no productive reason. HHH does that sometimes, yesI agree wit hthis See: Broomstick See also: Last of a dying breed.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 6, 2012 17:22:37 GMT -5
It's a mixed bag with HHH. I've often thought that he will put over pet projects like Batista and Cena, but guys who really had no office backing and could be threats to him were destined to be buried (RVD, Booker). To some extent Kane as well but really the Katie Vick and the unmasking angles were typical bad Kane storylines, not so much HHH actively attempting to bury him.
I think the problem with Cena isn't that he wins all the time or loses sometimes, it's that he doesn't really seem to care about the result. He'll lose...and then come out and smile and joke. Or immediately get the win back. Or it'll be some bizarre deal where he might lose but it's booked in a way to where the opponent gets no heat. It's a lose/lose proposition really: If Cena wins all the time it's tedious. If he loses half the time, then why is he pushed to the main event of every PPV (in storyline terms)?
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,585
Member is Online
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Post by Bo Rida on Jul 6, 2012 17:23:00 GMT -5
I'll start with the notion that VINCE ONLY PUSHES BODYBUILDERS! or guys with huge builds, and only pushes little guys when he's out of big guys. You can argue whenever this really started to transition, but you really can't say, with Punk and Bryan as the shining examples, and really even whenever Rey's still around, that they only push hosses anymore. Heck, aside from Ryback, who isn't even near the main event, the guys getting monster pushes lately haven't even been the traditional hoss, or it would've been Mason Ryan and Big Zeke doing the squashing. Yet for some reason, people still repeat it. I'd go further than that and say the guys just below monster size might have it worse than people much smaller than them, it's crazy to think people like DH Smith and Chris Masters were released when they'd have been IC or tag champions in years gone by, or at least would still be with the company.
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Post by Some Guy on Jul 6, 2012 17:26:50 GMT -5
While we are on Cena overload a bit, it really isn't as bad as it's made out to be. Take away the recaps, and he actually has only a very small presence on the show. Last year, during the rise of CM Punk, Cena was nothing more than a belt pillow for Punk to take the title from. And when Cena did get the title back from Del Rio, he was pretty much an afterthought. He wouldn't have main evented Survivor Series if it wasn't for The Rock coming back. He was the focus during the Big Show and Ace feuds, when he had no right to be. It is as bad as it's made out to be.
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Magician under the moonlight
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Always Beaten To The Punchline. Always.
A magician and a thief. That's Badass
Posts: 15,727
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Post by Magician under the moonlight on Jul 6, 2012 18:18:00 GMT -5
Kelly kelly is the most over diva, especially during the time Eve and AJ were getting bigger reactions than her, and when Kharma was around.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 6, 2012 19:53:29 GMT -5
See also: Last of a dying breed. I dont see the problem here. He basically said he and Taker were legends. The last of their era.
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