Was WCW's biggest problem their fans?

[thelonewolf527]

A lot of people will give you tons of answers as to what WCW's biggest problem was that led to their downfall, but one that doesn't get brought up at all was their fanbase.

You may be asking how could the fans themselves be the problem, especially considering how hot the crowds were back in the late 90s and the ratings. Well let me explain:

WCW had a lot of great things going for them with the nWo, Goldberg, among other things. But a good amount of these things all faced the same problem: the crowds loved these guys so much that these storylines didn't end when they should have.

Take the nWo for example. The nWo probably should have ended at Starrcade in 1997 in some way shape or form with Sting destroying them for good. But because WCW's audience loved the nWo so much, the nWo kept going...and going...and going...and going for probably way too long.

There are plenty of other examples of stuff like this happening in WCW where something should have ended a lot sooner but it didn't because the audience was into it. So that begs the question: is it possible that WCW was screwed from the get go because their audience did not want to see certain angles end at a logical time? I mean imagine if the nWo did end at Starrcade in 1997 or if Goldberg's streak was handled differently. Things in WCW would have been VERY different and maybe certain problems would have never arisen, like the Fingerpoke of Doom, which if actually done at the same date but a year after the nWo had split may have gone over better.

[Bo Rida]

I don't think you can blame the fans for that, there's a reason phrases like "always leave them wanting more" exist and those in charge should have realised that.

[eDemento2099]

I think the fans were to blame for getting behind The Millionaire's Club rather than The New Blood. WCW's writers tried to take an unfortunate reality (Old talent had been holding down young talent) and make a run with it as a storyline, but the fans sided with the has-beens, sending a message to WCW that it should continue business as usual instead of taking the cruiserweights seriously.

WCW fans also sided with the West Texas Rednecks (heels) rather than the Filthy Animals (faces), although I guess that was an instance of WCW writers being clueless about what their main demographic (Americans from the south) liked in terms of music. The fans wanted to hear "Rap is Crap" instead of whatever stuff Master P was putting out while affiliated with WCW.

[thelonewolf527]

Aug 12, 2012 4:51:48 GMT -5 eDemento2099 said:

I think the fans were to blame for getting behind The Millionaire's Club rather than The New Blood. WCW's writers tried to take an unfortunate reality (Old talent had been holding down young talent) and make a run with it as a storyline, but the fans sided with the has-beens, sending a message to WCW that it should continue business as usual instead of taking the cruiserweights seriously.

WCW fans also sided with the West Texas Rednecks (heels) rather than the Filthy Animals (faces), although I guess that was an instance of WCW writers being clueless about what their main demographic (Americans from the south) liked in terms of music. The fans wanted to hear "Rap is Crap" instead of whatever stuff Master P was putting out while affiliated with WCW.

I honestly don't blame them for the Millionaire's Club thing. I mean the opposing stable consisted of Vince Russo, Eric Bischoff, and Jeff Jarrett. How could that possibly be a babyface stable?

[Optimax]

Aug 12, 2012 4:53:34 GMT -5 thelonewolf527 said:

Aug 12, 2012 4:51:48 GMT -5 eDemento2099 said:

I think the fans were to blame for getting behind The Millionaire's Club rather than The New Blood. WCW's writers tried to take an unfortunate reality (Old talent had been holding down young talent) and make a run with it as a storyline, but the fans sided with the has-beens, sending a message to WCW that it should continue business as usual instead of taking the cruiserweights seriously.

WCW fans also sided with the West Texas Rednecks (heels) rather than the Filthy Animals (faces), although I guess that was an instance of WCW writers being clueless about what their main demographic (Americans from the south) liked in terms of music. The fans wanted to hear "Rap is Crap" instead of whatever stuff Master P was putting out while affiliated with WCW.

I honestly don't blame them for the Millionaire's Club thing. I mean the opposing stable consisted of Vince Russo, Eric Bischoff, and Jeff Jarrett. How could that possibly be a babyface stable?

Wasn't the original plan to have bischoff and hogan leading the millionaires club, with Russo and Jarrett leading the new blood?

At least that would've balanced it out slightly, even if both leaderships are natural heels

[The Dark Order Inferno]

You can't blame for the audience for the booking team not knowing the audience they're writing for and for having no plans for life after a major angle. I loved WCW, I still do, even the crappy years, but sometimes it felt like it was being booked by people who had never watched an hour of WCW programming in their lives and I' m not just talking the Russo era.

[Deleted]

I think it got to the point where it was just cool and like a mob riot...If you look back at some of the old shows half the time they arent even paying attention to the ring they are just going nuts...They seriously became very apathetic to the product

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

never blame the audience. if they hate your product there's probably a good reason. nobody pays money for a ticket to something they hate (usually).

[Deleted]

Aug 12, 2012 7:36:00 GMT -5 @slickrickstyles said:

I think it got to the point where it was just cool and like a mob riot...If you look back at some of the old shows half the time they arent even paying attention to the ring they are just going nuts...They seriously became very apathetic to the product

I've always noticed this with WCW, it was like there was always noise but it just doesn't feel like it's because of the action in the ring.

[Sam Punk]

Aug 12, 2012 4:51:48 GMT -5 eDemento2099 said:

The fans wanted to hear "Rap is Crap" instead of whatever stuff Master P was putting out while affiliated with WCW.

Well to be fair it was an awesome song.

[ipadslam]

All I know about WCW audiences is that they looked.... ROUGH. Seriously, go back and watch the tapes, some of them looked dreadful. Like they had just rolled out of bed, strolled down the street to buy milk and were hoarded into a show to scream like thugs into the camera.

[Deleted]

I think that an underrated part of WCW's downfall were their fans, in that when you have people in the audience with copious amounts of signs proclaiming that the product sucks(even if it did a lot of the time) it's going to filter into the sub-conscious of anyone watching the show. It's a tough decision because on the one hand the fans have a right to express their feelings on the company, but on the other hand as a business you don't want those signs to influence others, especially when at the time the WWF was on the other channel mocking WCW. In the grand scheme of their downfall it was minuscule, but I think that it had an effect regardless of how negligible.

[willyjakes]

I think a good chunk of the WCW crowds back in the day were just drunk frat boys from around the country going to southern party schools. That's why you had weekly fan run ins, garbage thrown into the ring...just general mayhem. They cared little about the storylines etc...they just wanted to see their childhood heroes for a night (hogan, flair, savage etc)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9JYOGJ0ngc

this is a good example. In the foreground you have some guys(clemson shirt) gesturing to who knows what, some fat drunk 20something storms the ring. There are many instances of this. Fights in the crowd, attention being paid to god knows what (the camera obviously wouldn't show it...)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz5c83YR59I&feature=related

[babyfootball]

Yep, always thought this was kind of stupid on WCW's part, not knowing how to book to what the fans want to see. These fans (males in their late teens and early 20's) wanted to see edgy programming, but WCW always seemed to go back to old 'rasslin booking, if that makes sense. They mostly kept their programming centered around heels.

Think towards Attitude Era WWF in that same era: why did Austin come out on top so damn much? Because people were dying to cheer for him! Dominant heel runs such as the nWo of 1996 through 1997 can be very beneficial if you're trying to pop a huge buyrate for the big blow-off show (Starrcade 1997) but eventually people want to see they wrestlers that they like actually win. Wrestling fans for the most part want to celebrate, and aren't the same people who go to see a lot of depressing, arty movies.

Nitro during its peak always had the presence of a raucous party atmosphere, even when we were getting lots of V.K. Wallstreet vs. Hugh Morrus and Barbarian vs. Desperado Joe Gomez. People will sit through that stuff for a while if they get to a great payoff at the end. Eventually this started to wane as people started to realize that they wre paying money to see exactly what they don't want to see every week. They realized it made no sense and stopped going. The ones who kept going (the diehards) had nothing to cheer for.

Ultimately, it's not really the fans' fault. Yeah, they kept popping for the nWo but that didn't last long. By the time 1998 and the fingerpoke happened, business was starting to show signs of stagnation. And people tend to forget, for as much as the heels were over in that feud, Sting at one point was as hot as anybody even after the Starrcade debacle the year prior and he, Nash and the Wolfpac were incredibly over, as were DDP, Goldberg and many others. DDP got made to look like a doofus, same with Sting (though to be fair Sting had been booked that way since 1989 and all the times he was suckered in to trusting Flair) and Goldberg to a degree (as he won the WCW belt under historic circumstances and then proceeded to defend it against all his old nemeses like Rick Fuller and Vincent). Nash didn't need to turn heel so soon after winning the belt. It devalued the belt and made him look like a total patsy just handing it over to Hogan, and his fanbase had no choice but to jump ship at that moment.

WCW, so many times, not only didn't give its fans what they wanted, but actually insulted them in the process. Sure, there were an awful lot of "casual" fans in the audience during those peak years, but it's absolutely fair to say that the reason they were throwing garbage into the ring (which is still one of the most amazing examples of "only in WCW" would they let this go on for years despite the safety hazards) changed drastically between Bash at the Beach 1996 and various events in 1998 and 1999.

[eDemento2099]

Aug 12, 2012 4:53:34 GMT -5 thelonewolf527 said:

Aug 12, 2012 4:51:48 GMT -5 eDemento2099 said:

I think the fans were to blame for getting behind The Millionaire's Club rather than The New Blood. WCW's writers tried to take an unfortunate reality (Old talent had been holding down young talent) and make a run with it as a storyline, but the fans sided with the has-beens, sending a message to WCW that it should continue business as usual instead of taking the cruiserweights seriously.

WCW fans also sided with the West Texas Rednecks (heels) rather than the Filthy Animals (faces), although I guess that was an instance of WCW writers being clueless about what their main demographic (Americans from the south) liked in terms of music. The fans wanted to hear "Rap is Crap" instead of whatever stuff Master P was putting out while affiliated with WCW.

I honestly don't blame them for the Millionaire's Club thing. I mean the opposing stable consisted of Vince Russo, Eric Bischoff, and Jeff Jarrett. How could that possibly be a babyface stable?

I liked Jeff Jarrett, especially at the time (He was in his 'Listen up, Slapnuts' phase, IIRC).

Other members that made the New Blood a formidable faction worthy of fans' support were Rey Misterio Jr, Vampiro, Bam Bam Bigelow, Chris Candido, Sean O'Haire, Booker T, Lance Storm, Juventud Guerrera, Crowbar, and Mike Awesome.

[chazraps]

Aug 12, 2012 11:48:19 GMT -5 ipadslam said:

All I know about WCW audiences is that they looked.... ROUGH. Seriously, go back and watch the tapes, some of them looked dreadful. Like they had just rolled out of bed, strolled down the street to buy milk and were hoarded into a show to scream like thugs into the camera.

And WWF audiences at that time look like they just split a Burger King Rodeo Burger and a can of Surge at Hot Topic while shopping for Big Johnson shirts to tuck into their Jncos.

Wrestling audiences post-1960 have never been fashion plates.

[notasmark]

The problem with WCW was management that's really it. If you listen to the interviews the main issues were workers didn't know who to talk to in regards to story lines and just general things.

The nWo shouldn't of ended at Starrcade 1997, The nWo was still hot even at the end of WCW. nWo 2000 was even hot (Look at the crowds in early 2000, nWo 2000 shirts were common as were signs)

As for Goldberg's streak the only guy in 98 who was active at that time that was a big star apart from him was Nash. It made sense for Nash to end the streak and if Goldberg hadn't eventually gotten hurt the whole Goldberg taking out the nWo storyline would of saved the company in my opinion.

And Millionaires Club Vs New Blood i think New Blood was always meant to be heel. If you look at that April 10th show (The debut of New Blood) the New Blood had Bischoff and Russo talking badly about legends of wrestling. It was spearheaded by Bischoff (Who was a heel on TV last), Russo (Who was also a heel) and Jarrett (Who was the top heel)

The problem with New Blood was they didn't have enough big stars to have a successful feud. Fans knew that Billy Kidman wasn't in Hulk Hogan's league just like they knew David Flair had no chance in hell beating Ric Flair.

Ultimately if they did a 5 Vs 5 to end Millionaires Club Vs New Blood you'd have something like this:

Hogan, Flair, Sting, Page and Nash Vs Jarrett, Steiner, Vampiro, Mike Awesome and Kanyon team New Blood wasnt seen in the same league as Millionaires Club hence why the story line never got hot and never made money and when they tried to give New Blood much needed star power the fans turned on it, but you can't blame them for it because Goldberg is baby face for life.

As for the fans in general, the crowds were great. When a heel gets so much heat that trash is thrown in the ring or a fan jumps the rail that's good. The crowds always responded well and WCW had loyal fans until the very end

[eDemento2099]

Aug 12, 2012 16:05:32 GMT -5 notasmark said:

As for Goldberg's streak the only guy in 98 who was active at that time that was a big star apart from him was Nash. It made sense for Nash to end the streak.

WCW could have had more talented, deserving wrestlers like Chris Benoit, Raven, or DDP end Goldberg's steak. DDP and Raven helped Goldberg put on the very best matches of his career.

[Todd's crazy , Man.]

No this is

Aug 12, 2012 16:05:32 GMT -5 notasmark said:

The problem with New Blood was they didn't have enough big stars to have a successful feud. Fans knew that Billy Kidman wasn't in Hulk Hogan's league just like they knew David Flair had no chance in hell beating Ric Flair.

Ultimately if they did a 5 Vs 5 to end Millionaires Club Vs New Blood you'd have something like this:

Hogan, Flair, Sting, Page and Nash s Jarrett, Steiner, Vampiro, Mike Awesome and Kanyon eam New Blood wasnt seen in the same league as Millionaires Club hence why the story line never got hot and never made money.

Now imagine if instead that read Jericho , Mysterio , Guerrero , Benoit , Malenko or Jericho , Guerrero , Malenko , Benoit or Jericho , Guerrero , Malenko , Nagata , Saturn.



Hell , I think if you put Jericho and Mysterio together right now straight up against Flair and Hogan. Jericho and Mysterio would be the faces.

I watch Raw or Smackdown every week and I see hundreds of kids with mystyerio masks and I honestly don't know how WCW manage to misuse that guy and the others but somehow they did.
.


WCW just could not use the talent it had and it didn't matter if it was Russo or Vince. I mean WCW once had HHH and Stone Cold on the roster and what did they get out of it? A successful mid-card run for Austin and HHH to be a full time jobber? Hell , They had the damn UNDERTAKER on the roster before the WWE did.

[mrjl]

Aug 12, 2012 20:13:09 GMT -5 Todd's crazy , Man. said:

No this is

Aug 12, 2012 16:05:32 GMT -5 notasmark said:

The problem with New Blood was they didn't have enough big stars to have a successful feud. Fans knew that Billy Kidman wasn't in Hulk Hogan's league just like they knew David Flair had no chance in hell beating Ric Flair.

Ultimately if they did a 5 Vs 5 to end Millionaires Club Vs New Blood you'd have something like this:

Hogan, Flair, Sting, Page and Nash s Jarrett, Steiner, Vampiro, Mike Awesome and Kanyon eam New Blood wasnt seen in the same league as Millionaires Club hence why the story line never got hot and never made money.

Now imagine if instead that read Jericho , Mysterio , Guerrero , Benoit , Malenko or Jericho , Guerrero , Malenko , Benoit or Jericho , Guerrero , Malenko , Nagata , Saturn.



Hell , I think if you put Jericho and Mysterio together right now straight up against Flair and Hogan. Jericho and Mysterio would be the faces.

I watch Raw or Smackdown every week and I see hundreds of kids with mystyerio masks and I honestly don't know how WCW manage to misuse that guy and the others but somehow they did.
.


WCW just could not use the talent it had and it didn't matter if it was Russo or Vince. I mean WCW once had HHH and Stone Cold on the roster and what did they get out of it? A successful mid-card run for Austin and HHH to be a full time jobber? Hell , They had the damn UNDERTAKER on the roster before the WWE did.

people do gain skills over time, you know.

WCCW, USWA and NJPW also had the Undertaker on their roster before WWE did.

and a lot of those guys you list would have been no more believable in a final five against the Millionaire's Club. I'd have looked across the ring and simply figured the Millionarie's club would over power them to fast.

Maybe if it was Hogan, Flair, Sting, Page and Nash vs Goldberg, Benoit, Steiner, Booker T and Jericho

As for Goldberg'd streak, I think Booker would have been a good eventual winner, but Nash would have been fine without the whole Fingerpoke of Doom