MMA News and Notes 5: The Blame Game

[Lancers]

Aug 23, 2012 18:22:51 GMT -5 Citizen Grimm said:

Aug 23, 2012 18:00:31 GMT -5 Lancers said:

And they all will...eventually. And that's what sucks more than anything else. Those guys on the undercard get paid very little and now they're gonna have to wait an undetermined amount of time for another fight.

And that isn't Jones fault.

Just because his fight gets called off, shouldn't mean that the entire card should collapse. They want to blame someone for the loss of a pay day, then blame Joe Silva.

Regardless of whether he can walk through Sonnen or not, that's not his problem or his responsibility. Like many have said, this is both a sport and a business. Jones should take care of himself and the others should take care of themselves.

I don't think it's Jones fault either. This is because they've watered down their cards to ridiculous levels because there's too many events.

It's a crappy situation no matter what. I'm not mad at anyone other than Dana White for acting like a raving lunatic.

[memphis25]

Its 100% it Jones fault.

When you get into a position where you make a bulk of the money it is your responsibility to take a fight against a lesser opponent if you're 100% healthy and ready to go.

If you want around a half a million a fight and a PPV bonus they can't afford to load up the Cards with multiple big money fights. If you don't want to do business and look out for company along with the lesser fighters he should be happy to take a 150K to show and a 150K to win rating than 400K and large PPV percentage.

All he has to do is say yes and the undercard guys get their money and can in turn get to fight their next fight quicker thus making more money. In a sport with a limited earning window. Also the company doesn't lose million on the marketing of his show and they have to rework all the other ads for future shows as well.

One guy saying no cost the company, their partners and employees millions.

[Citizen Grimm]

Aug 23, 2012 18:49:14 GMT -5 Lancers said:

Aug 23, 2012 18:22:51 GMT -5 Citizen Grimm said:

And that isn't Jones fault.

Just because his fight gets called off, shouldn't mean that the entire card should collapse. They want to blame someone for the loss of a pay day, then blame Joe Silva.

Regardless of whether he can walk through Sonnen or not, that's not his problem or his responsibility. Like many have said, this is both a sport and a business. Jones should take care of himself and the others should take care of themselves.

I don't think it's Jones fault either. This is because they've watered down their cards to ridiculous levels because there's too many events.

It's a crappy situation no matter what. I'm not mad at anyone other than Dana White for acting like a raving lunatic.

Agreed. If anyone came out looking bad in this its Dana.

1) He threw in LHW champ under the bus, which is especially stupid because Jones will be one of his biggest cash cows in the coming years.

2) If White would have just downplayed everything and apologized to the fans, saying that they didn't feel they could put on a respectable card and they won't put on something not worth the fans money. Just mention Jones/Machida II at the next PPV and everything would be cool. Jones wouldn't have additional heat, Sonnen would be focusing on fighting Forest Griffin instead of running his mouth and the UFC would look better for being a more pro-fan company, especially if all the fans who bought tickets get their money back.

Dana should really get a few hours to think about these things before going to a press conference to vent.

[xtremehorseman]

Jones got ripped apart on ESPN, LOL

[zeez]

I just hope the rest of the fighters get taken care of. This is horrible for them.

[Citizen Grimm]

Aug 23, 2012 19:05:37 GMT -5 memphis25 said:

Its 100% it Jones fault.

When you get into a position where you make a bulk of the money it is your responsibility to take a fight against a lesser opponent if you're 100% healthy and ready to go.

If you want around a half a million a fight and a PPV bonus they can't afford to load up the Cards with multiple big money fights. If you don't want to do business and look out for company along with the lesser fighters he should be happy to take a 150K to show and a 150K to win rating than 400K and large PPV percentage.

All he has to do is say yes and the undercard guys get their money and can in turn get to fight their next fight quicker thus making more money. In a sport with a limited earning window. Also the company doesn't lose million on the marketing of his show and they have to rework all the other ads for future shows as well.

One guy saying no cost the company, their partners and employees millions.

Sorry but no, its not Jones fault.

No one is saying the UFC has to stack the cards. They should only do that for special occasions, like UFC 100 for example.

People are just saying that a single fight should not be the glue that holds together a PPV.

Jones should not be responsible for taking a fight on eight days notice. He has everything to lose and nothing to gain from fighting Sonnen. If he beats Sonnen, then that's what he was expected to do. If he loses, he loses his belt and will look like an idiot for losing to a guy who is 2-2 in his last four fights, only one being a decisive win.

Jones is not responsible for the undercard.

[memphis25]

Its only Jones fault and nobody else, they could have saved the show and he said no. There's no debating it at all he cost others a payday and a chance to get another quicker and cost the company and their partners millions by refusing to fight a 27–12–1 marketable fighter.

If you take the main event off the show nobody is going to buy the PPV. When guys want to get major payoffs and a percentage of the PPV they aren't going to have loaded shows they become one fight shows so yes Jones is responsible for the undercard. If he wants to take less money they can have a better undercards and might could have save the show but he would have said no to that as well.

Nobody should care if Jones loses he will make even more money in the rematch which they would have gave him on a quick turnaround for doing good business on top of giving him more money for taking the fight on short notice.

[mysterydriver]

I'm waiting for (and I'd actually be willing to bet on this) the UFC to announce within the next couple of days that "Dana White has decided to pay all undercard fighters their contracted amounts" to make the company sound like heroes. I mean, if they're already soaking the losses of location rentals, ticket revenue, and potential PPV buys, they might as well "do the right thing" and pay those who are innocent victims.

It's a PR supermove that is also commendable beyond that. Especially the guys currently getting messed over by sponsors basically shrugging off any suggestion of payment since there are no fights.

[Citizen Grimm]

Aug 23, 2012 19:27:59 GMT -5 memphis25 said:

Its only Jones fault and nobody else, they could have saved the show and he said no. There's no debating it at all he cost others a payday and a chance to get another quicker and cost the company and their partners millions by refusing to fight a 27–12–1 marketable fighter.

If you take the main event off the show nobody is going to buy the PPV. When guys want to get major payoffs and a percentage of the PPV they aren't going to have loaded shows they become one fight shows so yes Jones is responsible for the undercard. If he wants to take less money they can have a better undercards and might could have save the show but he would have said no to that as well.

Nobody should care if Jones loses he will make even more money in the rematch which they would have gave him on a quick turnaround for doing good business on top of giving him more money for taking the fight on short notice.

Why is it Jones responsibility to save the show? Because he's the champ? That doesn't make any sense.

Of course if you take off Jones off the card then no one is going to buy it. That is the UFC's fault, not Jones. What if Jones had been hurt instead of Hendo? Would all of the responsibility be on his shoulder's and he should suddenly fight Sonnen? No, because that makes no sense.

Jones should care if he loses. Regardless of your popularity or standing in the company, you should never go into a fight not caring if you win or lose. And Sonnen probably isn't all that marketable right now. The hardcore fanbase knows he just moved up a weight division and is unproven there and the casual fans know he just lost a title fight the last time they saw him.

[xtremehorseman]

At the end of the day the card should have been good enough to handle losing the main event so Dana takes a lot of the blame. With that said Jones is a f***ing pro fighter and he should have grew a pair and did his job. The only reason to refuse a fight on a day you were scheduled to fight anyway, and you are injury free is because you are afraid of the guy. The people saying that Jones had nothing to gain are full of BS because he did have something gain, a paycheck that would have been bigger the the one he would have had against Hendo.

[Corporate H]

I love how people are using the word "scrub" among other things to describe Chael Sonnen. I get it, the guy lost his last title defense and he really shouldn't be in line for another, but you could say the same for Brock Lesnar? Only difference there is that Lesnar won his previous match-up and Chael controversially lost. UFC isn't about what's fair a lot of the time so I don't see how this is really an issue. It's business and business as usual for them. Chael Sonnen took Silva further than anyone has thus far and technically should be champ via illegal knee. Because he hasn't really made light of it, nobody's really talked about it. Surprising from somebody with such a big mouth, something people also don't understand is that his mouth is used to sell fights.

He didn't only take Silva to his limits, he brought UFC back to a level it hasn't seen since guess who left not so long ago. This right now is probably the biggest marketable replacement for the main event. They need something that is going to move PPVs. You really think Sonnen was the only choice? He may have been the best option to draw an audience but I'm sure Jones said no to having any replacements period which is a real shame. It's incredibly selfish and takes away from UFC's audience and also it's competitors who are now out of a paycheck for absolutely no good reason. This guy was moaning about fighting Machida because it wouldn't bring any more buys, well here's your main event caliber match-up, have at it. Geez.

[memphis25]

Its his responsibility because he makes the most money, its a sacrifice you have to make when on top along with all the media. If he didn't get paid so much they could afford to have better mid cards and a possibility at saving the show without him, but he isn't interested in that either.

The UFC made him millions and opened doors that would never been there for him. His talent played a part in that but he can win fights in Bellator all day long and he isn't going to make money like he will with Dana.

If he is worried about losing to Sonnen when already training for a wrestler then maybe he isn't as good as people think.

Wins and losses don't matter in this fight from a financial standpoint. If he wins he gets a payday and some extra money from UFC for saving the show and goes on to get his other fights lined up. If he loses everyone knows he took it on short notice and his mystique is untarnished and then you have a even bigger rematch on top of future fights and a penitential 3rd fight with Sonnen.

There was several ways to go on this and Jon and his camp picked the worst possible one for him, now he has a vindictive boss pissed at him when he once had the respect to get what he wants.

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

Aug 23, 2012 19:56:53 GMT -5 Corporate H said:

I love how people are using the word "scrub" among other things to describe Chael Sonnen. I get it, the guy lost his last title defense and he really shouldn't be in line for another, but you could say the same for Brock Lesnar? Only difference there is that Lesnar won his previous match-up and Chael controversially lost. UFC isn't about what's fair a lot of the time so I don't see how this is really an issue. It's business and business as usual for them. Chael Sonnen took Silva further than anyone has thus far and technically should be champ via illegal knee. Because he hasn't really made light of it, nobody's really talked about it. Surprising from somebody with such a big mouth, something people also don't understand is that his mouth is used to sell fights.

He didn't only take Silva to his limits, he brought UFC back to a level it hasn't seen since guess who left not so long ago. This right now is probably the biggest marketable replacement for the main event. They need something that is going to move PPVs. You really think Sonnen was the only choice? He may have been the best option to draw an audience but I'm sure Jones said no to having any replacements period which is a real shame. It's incredibly selfish and takes away from UFC's audience and also it's competitors who are now out of a paycheck for absolutely no good reason. This guy was moaning about fighting Machida because it wouldn't bring any more buys, well here's your main event caliber match-up, have at it. Geez.

It wasn't an illegal knee, don't buy into that hype. It hit him in the chest, Chael just had to have an easy excuse for throwing a dumbass backfist. Flat out, dude uses his mouth to sell fights, then absolutely FAILS to back up his mouth. He's 50% in his past four fights, and only dominantly one ONE of those. He has no business in any title hunt right now. Jones was absolutely right to turn him down, Dana should have had a backup plan in place. But, that said, it's great to see that White's smear campaign is already working.

[Corporate H]

Aug 23, 2012 20:03:30 GMT -5 Spankymac is sick of the swiss said:

Aug 23, 2012 19:56:53 GMT -5 Corporate H said:

I love how people are using the word "scrub" among other things to describe Chael Sonnen. I get it, the guy lost his last title defense and he really shouldn't be in line for another, but you could say the same for Brock Lesnar? Only difference there is that Lesnar won his previous match-up and Chael controversially lost. UFC isn't about what's fair a lot of the time so I don't see how this is really an issue. It's business and business as usual for them. Chael Sonnen took Silva further than anyone has thus far and technically should be champ via illegal knee. Because he hasn't really made light of it, nobody's really talked about it. Surprising from somebody with such a big mouth, something people also don't understand is that his mouth is used to sell fights.

He didn't only take Silva to his limits, he brought UFC back to a level it hasn't seen since guess who left not so long ago. This right now is probably the biggest marketable replacement for the main event. They need something that is going to move PPVs. You really think Sonnen was the only choice? He may have been the best option to draw an audience but I'm sure Jones said no to having any replacements period which is a real shame. It's incredibly selfish and takes away from UFC's audience and also it's competitors who are now out of a paycheck for absolutely no good reason. This guy was moaning about fighting Machida because it wouldn't bring any more buys, well here's your main event caliber match-up, have at it. Geez.

It wasn't an illegal knee, don't buy into that hype. It hit him in the chest, Chael just had to have an easy excuse for throwing a dumbass backfist. Flat out, dude uses his mouth to sell fights, then absolutely FAILS to back up his mouth. He's 50% in his past four fights, and only dominantly one ONE of those. He has no business in any title hunt right now. Jones was absolutely right to turn him down, Dana should have had a backup plan in place. But, that said, it's great to see that White's smear campaign is already working.

How is he absolutely right to turn down the fight? Even if the real world if somebody bad mouths you and challenges you to a fight days away are you going to say no? Maybe, but does that still make you a man? As another example, I work in the kitchen at work, if my boss calls me in to work the front end because they need me to fill in am I going to say no? Maybe, but does that make me a professional? Is my job on the line now? In some way I'd like to think so. He should've taken the fight and not been a diva and knowing this guys track record lately it seems he's leaning more the prima donna route.

I still say it's an illegal knee. Does that mean Chael should be champ? Nah, he probably would've lost anyways. Does he deserve a title shot? Nope. Would I have cared if he got one? Nope, would've been entertained as all hell to see him lose again if he had to. Now I'm not going to watch any fights, that's the alternative. For everyone else on the card they don't get paid. I dunno, all signs point to puss on this one and I gotta imagine there's gotta be a few other guys other than Sonnen who want it out for him now. Just my guess.

[B.A.]

I understand where everyone is coming at, but no matter what is said, Jones is going to get the blame. You know why? Because in the eyes of most people, he turned down the fight and there is no legitimate reason he's given (at least I know of ) as to why he won't take it. Hey, it could very well be because it's short notice but it doesn't matter.

When you are the champ, you automatically get unwanted responsibilities. Doesn't matter if it's not his fault, in the eyes of everyone else, it will be. That's the price for being in the media, and being a champ.

[B.A.]

Aug 23, 2012 20:11:50 GMT -5 Corporate H said:

Aug 23, 2012 20:03:30 GMT -5 Spankymac is sick of the swiss said:

It wasn't an illegal knee, don't buy into that hype. It hit him in the chest, Chael just had to have an easy excuse for throwing a dumbass backfist. Flat out, dude uses his mouth to sell fights, then absolutely FAILS to back up his mouth. He's 50% in his past four fights, and only dominantly one ONE of those. He has no business in any title hunt right now. Jones was absolutely right to turn him down, Dana should have had a backup plan in place. But, that said, it's great to see that White's smear campaign is already working.

I still say it's an illegal knee.

The rules of the UFC say it was legal. May of looked illegal, but factually it wasn't. How could you say it's still illegal?

[salz4life]

Aug 23, 2012 17:09:20 GMT -5 Citizen Grimm said:

Personally, I'm on Jones side here.

1) Sonnen is 2-2 in his last four fights, with only one decisive win over Brian Stann. Honestly, he probably shouldn't even have beaten Bisping but that's neither here nor there. He doesn't deserve a title shot, especially considering he's moving UP a weight class. He needs to beat someone before he gets a shot. Running your mouth doesn't earn you a title shot.

2) The UFC cancelled the card because of their own planning issues. You should not rely on selling an entire card on a single fight. Regardless of Jones' decision, that blame falls directly on the UFC's shoulders.

3) Jones is well within his right to turn down a fight on such short notice. This isn't for a number one contender's spot or an extra pay day; this is for the title. You can also throw in the fact that Jones said earlier this month he wouldn't fight Sonnen because Sonnen didn't deserve a title shot right now. Not to mention that Sonnen is someone who gets TRT treatment, which Jones just spoke his disapproval of.

4) I can even understand Jones' reluctance on fighting Machida again. Jones beat him handily and got a poor pay day for it. He hasn't said he won't fight Machida, but that he doesn't agree that its the best way to make money. Perfectly legit complaint to me; not much different than Austin not wanting to job to Lesnar on free TV. There's more money to be made elsewhere. Let Jones fight someone else in the meantime or even just wait for a bit, while Machida or whoever builds themselves us to look like a legit threat. A Jones/Dragon rematch will be hard to sell since Jones choked him out, standing up no less, just 8 months ago.

Agree with all points. Although, while I agree with you overall on 4... at least Machida earned his shot. Had Dana offered up Machida and Jones said no, I would be upset. Sonnen deserves to jerk the curtain at this point.

[salz4life]

Aug 23, 2012 19:08:00 GMT -5 xtremehorseman said:

Jones got ripped apart on ESPN, LOL

Fail Sonnen can yap all he wants. Last time we saw this horse's a**, he was embarrassed by Anderson Silva. F*** him and his continued yapping like a brazen puppy dog.

[salz4life]

Aug 23, 2012 19:27:59 GMT -5 memphis25 said:

Its only Jones fault and nobody else, they could have saved the show and he said no. There's no debating it at all he cost others a payday and a chance to get another quicker and cost the company and their partners millions by refusing to fight a 27–12–1 marketable fighter.

If you take the main event off the show nobody is going to buy the PPV. When guys want to get major payoffs and a percentage of the PPV they aren't going to have loaded shows they become one fight shows so yes Jones is responsible for the undercard. If he wants to take less money they can have a better undercards and might could have save the show but he would have said no to that as well.

Nobody should care if Jones loses he will make even more money in the rematch which they would have gave him on a quick turnaround for doing good business on top of giving him more money for taking the fight on short notice.

It's not Jon Jones' job to "save" the card. This isn't the first time a main event has had to be scrapped. It is the job of the UFC (Dana White, the Fertittas, Joe Silva, etc.) to put a satisfactory product out there. The fact of the matter is, once again (see UFC 145 and to a lesser extent, UFC 140) put all their money into Jon Jones and they have now been burned. This card, like 145 and 140 (not a terrible card, but not great either), was awful. Maybe the UFC will learn from their mistake here.

[mysterydriver]

Jon's last tweet from about a day ago (23hrs as of this post).

Jon Bones Jones ‏@jonnybones
"And therefore those skilled in war bring the enemy to the field of battle and are not brought there by him" - Sun Tzu

Take that as you will.