Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
Posts: 13,829
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Post by Corporate H on Aug 23, 2012 20:50:03 GMT -5
I still say it's an illegal knee. The rules of the UFC say it was legal. May of looked illegal, but factually it wasn't. How could you say it's still illegal? From all I've read (which is to say, the ever-erroneous Yahoo! Sports) it is illegal and can be determined by the ref if said knee determines a bout. I dunno, all I'm saying is UFC isn't exactly the most stringent on anything, including rules. Some fights are let on forever because they're concluded a TKO, other fights that appear to have the same conclusion are called instantly. I think this is one of those fights that was just called immediately when it could've gone on a bit longer. A lot of people think it was cut way too short, but that's not really the point.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,007
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Post by salz4life on Aug 23, 2012 20:50:53 GMT -5
It was not an illegal knee.
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Aug 23, 2012 20:55:44 GMT -5
The rules of the UFC say it was legal. May of looked illegal, but factually it wasn't. How could you say it's still illegal? From all I've read (which is to say, the ever-erroneous Yahoo! Sports) it is illegal and can be determined by the ref if said knee determines a bout. I dunno, all I'm saying is UFC isn't exactly the most stringent on anything, including rules. Some fights are let on forever because they're concluded a TKO, other fights that appear to have the same conclusion are called instantly. I think this is one of those fights that was just called immediately when it could've gone on a bit longer. A lot of people think it was cut way too short, but that's not really the point. The knee clearly strikes Sonnen in the chest. A knee to the body of a grounded opponent is perfectly legal. I honestly don't understand how you can believe this is an illegal hit.
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Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
Posts: 13,829
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Post by Corporate H on Aug 23, 2012 20:57:00 GMT -5
Its only Jones fault and nobody else, they could have saved the show and he said no. There's no debating it at all he cost others a payday and a chance to get another quicker and cost the company and their partners millions by refusing to fight a 27–12–1 marketable fighter. If you take the main event off the show nobody is going to buy the PPV. When guys want to get major payoffs and a percentage of the PPV they aren't going to have loaded shows they become one fight shows so yes Jones is responsible for the undercard. If he wants to take less money they can have a better undercards and might could have save the show but he would have said no to that as well. Nobody should care if Jones loses he will make even more money in the rematch which they would have gave him on a quick turnaround for doing good business on top of giving him more money for taking the fight on short notice. It's not Jon Jones' job to "save" the card. This isn't the first time a main event has had to be scrapped. It is the job of the UFC (Dana White, the Fertittas, Joe Silva, etc.) to put a satisfactory product out there. The fact of the matter is, once again (see UFC 145 and to a lesser extent, UFC 140) put all their money into Jon Jones and they have now been burned. This card, like 145 and 140 (not a terrible card, but not great either), was awful. Maybe the UFC will learn from their mistake here. Chances are he's going to have to fight Sonnen anyways, both guys are training for different fighters with Chael having the most stark comparison going against a brawler like Forrest next. He could've just manned up and did his job. We'll seen if he declines Sonnen now again like he is Machida come next year or whenever he decides to grace us with his sportsmanship. From all I've read (which is to say, the ever-erroneous Yahoo! Sports) it is illegal and can be determined by the ref if said knee determines a bout. I dunno, all I'm saying is UFC isn't exactly the most stringent on anything, including rules. Some fights are let on forever because they're concluded a TKO, other fights that appear to have the same conclusion are called instantly. I think this is one of those fights that was just called immediately when it could've gone on a bit longer. A lot of people think it was cut way too short, but that's not really the point. The knee clearly strikes Sonnen in the chest. A knee to the body of a grounded opponent is perfectly legal. I honestly don't understand how you can believe this is an illegal hit. Haven't watched the fight since it originally aired, going by what I heard since watching it live. I can see that now, cool beans.
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Post by darthpipes on Aug 23, 2012 20:58:17 GMT -5
As much as I don't like Jones, I can't blame him for not taking a fight on such short notice. Dana deserves some blame here (of course he's incapable of blaming himself for anything) for not booking a real co-main event to take over in his eventuality. But at the same time, injuries are seriously hurting the UFC. I don't know if there's anything they can do about that but they need to try.
One thing I will say about Jones is that he's not all that seriously about wanting a big payday because he refuses to fight his "good friend" Anderson Silva. You say you want the big money, Jon, then fight Silva. A guy who you are bigger than. You want the big money? Fight Sonnen. That match would sell big-time too.
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Post by Cela on Aug 23, 2012 21:12:02 GMT -5
Personally I'd much rather see Sonnen vs. Jones than Machida beat down again so soon.
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Post by darthpipes on Aug 23, 2012 21:12:23 GMT -5
Its only Jones fault and nobody else, they could have saved the show and he said no. There's no debating it at all he cost others a payday and a chance to get another quicker and cost the company and their partners millions by refusing to fight a 27–12–1 marketable fighter. If you take the main event off the show nobody is going to buy the PPV. When guys want to get major payoffs and a percentage of the PPV they aren't going to have loaded shows they become one fight shows so yes Jones is responsible for the undercard. If he wants to take less money they can have a better undercards and might could have save the show but he would have said no to that as well. Nobody should care if Jones loses he will make even more money in the rematch which they would have gave him on a quick turnaround for doing good business on top of giving him more money for taking the fight on short notice. Why is it Jones responsibility to save the show? Because he's the champ? That doesn't make any sense. Of course if you take off Jones off the card then no one is going to buy it. That is the UFC's fault, not Jones. What if Jones had been hurt instead of Hendo? Would all of the responsibility be on his shoulder's and he should suddenly fight Sonnen? No, because that makes no sense. Jones should care if he loses. Regardless of your popularity or standing in the company, you should never go into a fight not caring if you win or lose. And Sonnen probably isn't all that marketable right now. The hardcore fanbase knows he just moved up a weight division and is unproven there and the casual fans know he just lost a title fight the last time they saw him. Dana is great at burying his own fighters. After JDS won the title from Cain of Fox, Dana basically went on about how the new champion's endurance sucks. I think the UFC also made a mistake creating three new divisions that no one gives a **** about. Overkill.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,007
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Post by salz4life on Aug 23, 2012 21:16:20 GMT -5
I believe Jones will fight Sonnen when he earns his shot. Sonnen has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to earn a LHW title shot. Getting humbled by Anderson Silva, going quiet for a bit, going to LHW and acquiring diarrhea of the mouth again doesn't mean you are top contender via magic. It's cute that you were willing to step up on short notice. Face facts.... Fail Sonnen isn't on Jon Jones level. He's an also-ran at LHW. Thanks for the effort, kid... but the Champ has no use for you.
I would've been more upset had Dana offered up Machida for 9/1, a guy that has earned his rematch, and Jones refused. From what I have read, Dana reached out to Machida and he actually said no.
No worries to the Fail Sonnen fans.... he'll talk his way into a title shot assuming he gets by Forrest. If Jones beats Machida again (which I think he will), I wouldn't be surprised of Sonnen weasels his way into being next in line (which is complete and utter BS because the winner of Shogun/Gustafsson (SP) should be next, IMO). I'm cool with this scenario because Jones will beat up Sonnen. Will Sonnen then move up to heavyweight and start talking at JDS/Cain/Reem (whoever is champ by then)?
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Aug 23, 2012 21:16:54 GMT -5
]Chances are he's going to have to fight Sonnen anyways, both guys are training for different fighters with Chael having the most stark comparison going against a brawler like Forrest next. He could've just manned up and did his job. We'll seen if he declines Sonnen now again like he is Machida come next year or whenever he decides to grace us with his sportsmanship. If Sonnen is able to earn his title shot like Jones said he should then I'm sure he would no have problem facing him.
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Aug 23, 2012 21:17:15 GMT -5
Why is it Jones responsibility to save the show? Because he's the champ? That doesn't make any sense. Of course if you take off Jones off the card then no one is going to buy it. That is the UFC's fault, not Jones. What if Jones had been hurt instead of Hendo? Would all of the responsibility be on his shoulder's and he should suddenly fight Sonnen? No, because that makes no sense. Jones should care if he loses. Regardless of your popularity or standing in the company, you should never go into a fight not caring if you win or lose. And Sonnen probably isn't all that marketable right now. The hardcore fanbase knows he just moved up a weight division and is unproven there and the casual fans know he just lost a title fight the last time they saw him. Dana is great at burying his own fighters. After JDS won the title from Cain of Fox, Dana basically went on about how the new champion's endurance sucks. I think the UFC also made a mistake creating three new divisions that no one gives a **** about. Overkill. Doesn't give a s*** about? I'll admit that heavyweights generally sell the PPVs to casuals fans but those small weight classes feature some of the more exciting fights in the UFC, even more so now that Frankie Edgar will be moving down into one of those divisions. Honestly, I think the UFC should pull back on their reigns a bit. They can't continue to run this many PPVs while still making the shows on FX and Fox important. Reel back a bit on the PPV's, let more people heal up and they'll be good to go.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,007
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Post by salz4life on Aug 23, 2012 21:18:51 GMT -5
I think the UFC also made a mistake creating three new divisions that no one gives a **** about. Overkill. I don't think that's the problem (although I really don't care for the 125 lb. division at this point). I think the problem is the Fox deal. I love the increase in free fights, however it has seriously dilluted the PPV cards and this is the first time it has seemingly bit the UFC in the backside.
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Post by KobashiChop on Aug 23, 2012 21:24:56 GMT -5
Sonnen volunteered to fight the top guy at 205 with no preparation in order to save the paydays of a bunch of other guys who dont have the financial luxuries that Bones Jones has.
I respect that a damn sight more than anything about Jon Jones. Especially after his talk about being a guy who would never get into any trouble before getting a major DUI.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,007
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Post by salz4life on Aug 23, 2012 21:27:27 GMT -5
Sonnen volunteered to fight the top guy at 205 with no preparation in order to save the paydays of a bunch of other guys who dont have the financial luxuries that Bones Jones has. Fail Sonnen is such a humanitarian. BS He did it for a title shot and main event money, plain and simple. He also probably did it knowing Jon Jones would say no so he would have ammo for his diarrhea of the mouth syndrome.
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Post by memphis25 on Aug 23, 2012 21:29:23 GMT -5
It's not Jon Jones' job to "save" the card. This isn't the first time a main event has had to be scrapped. It is the job of the UFC (Dana White, the Fertittas, Joe Silva, etc.) to put a satisfactory product out there. The fact of the matter is, once again (see UFC 145 and to a lesser extent, UFC 140) put all their money into Jon Jones and they have now been burned. This card, like 145 and 140 (not a terrible card, but not great either), was awful. Maybe the UFC will learn from their mistake here. Its not his job but its his duty as one of the companies highest paid guys. The UFC didn't make a mistake on these cards because its the nature of the beast when when you have highly paid guys on top getting a percentage of the PPV. Like I said earlier if Jon wants 150K to show and 150 to win then they can have better undercards. But just like he said no to saving this show he would want no part of that either.
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Post by mysterydriver on Aug 23, 2012 21:41:36 GMT -5
I remember a PPV headlined by Frank Mir and a mostly retired CroCop.
You're telling me they could hash out something quick? Reports that Weidman also volunteered (So I guess Dana ignored him because Sonnen is better $$). Couldn't work a "Number #1 Contender" for those "Willing to Step Up"? Probably couldn't suggest it because I highly doubt they'd take a week's worth of training for something that wasn't a title shot (Especially in Sonnen's case).
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Aug 23, 2012 21:41:53 GMT -5
Sonnen volunteered to fight the top guy at 205 with no preparation in order to save the paydays of a bunch of other guys who dont have the financial luxuries that Bones Jones has. Fail Sonnen is such a humanitarian. BS He did it for a title shot and main event money, plain and simple. He also probably did it knowing Jon Jones would say no so he would have ammo for his diarrhea of the mouth syndrome. Exactly. Sonnen has absolutely nothing to lose by fighting Jones. He already doesn't deserve a title shot and hasn't even fought at LHW yet. Sonnen could lose and then just move onto the next fight and no one would think twice about it.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 14,007
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Post by salz4life on Aug 23, 2012 21:46:59 GMT -5
I remember a PPV headlined by Frank Mir and a mostly retired CroCop. UFC 119. I had the pleasure of attending that one live. LOL
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Post by memphis25 on Aug 23, 2012 21:50:47 GMT -5
I remember a PPV headlined by Frank Mir and a mostly retired CroCop. You're telling me they could hash out something quick? Reports that Weidman also volunteered (So I guess Dana ignored him because Sonnen is better $$). Couldn't work a "Number #1 Contender" for those "Willing to Step Up"? Probably couldn't suggest it because I highly doubt they'd take a week's worth of training for something that wasn't a title shot (Especially in Sonnen's case). That show did terrible on PPV and it had other names on the show. Also CroCop had a 5-1-1 record heading up to that fight with his loss to Junior dos Santos and a NC to Overeem with all wins stoppages.
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Post by mysterydriver on Aug 23, 2012 22:09:49 GMT -5
And a year and two losses later, Cro Cop retired. That's what I'm meaning by "Mostly retired." He was out of the sport barely a year after the Mir fight.
And I'm not surprised the show did terrible on PPV but I guess my point is that it did better than $0.00.
Can anyone confirm that UFC 151 will essentially be a wasteland and the next PPV will simply be referred to as UFC 152.
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Mr T L Wolf
Hank Scorpio
He has the looks of Andre the Giant, and the strength of Barry Windham. Not to mention he's a hero to a few armadillos, a kangaroo and a small herd of bison.
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Post by Mr T L Wolf on Aug 23, 2012 22:24:56 GMT -5
I think the posters are already out as UFC 152.
And, Weidman is number one contender at 190, I don't know how that wouldn't have worked out.
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