Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair are underrated to me now

[Deleted]

This idea that these guys are caricatures pisses me off...These two are the corner stones of everything we love about pro wrestling...The pops Hogan got against Rock and Flair vs Michaels were insane...We dont ever see that anymore and we wont until Taker does his last rest...We judge so much and look into their personal lives so deeply that we under value how amazing these guys actually were and how much pride it brought to us

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Hogan has been underrated for many, many years.

Hogan is not a technician, but he can work and people have for years said he can't just because of 'workrate,' when he's just done the exact same thing as Great Muta which is work as little as he needs to to get by. And as little as Hogan needed to is the most successful wrestler in history.

[The Ichi]

I'll stop making fun of Flair when he stops giving me reasons to make fun of him.

[hitch]

Hogan's the greatest in-ring performer in history.

If people want to respond with a guy who is a great 'technical' wrestler - such a thing doesn't exist. It's like trying to watch a medical drama and trying to ascertain the character who's the best physician. There may be different styles of performance but everything is judged by whether people 'buy' what you're selling.

Flair, lived - and lives - his gimmick. It's why he makes it work. In fact neither guy is part-time in that respect.

[The OP]

A lot of people are very judgmental and even mean spirited. I don't really know what else to say about it other than I agree these guys deserve more respect from fans. I think wrestlers in general do, really.

[arrx]

Hogan is the most overrated wrestler ever, the Great Kali is a better in ring performer than he ever was. Ric Flair is the one the best though.

[hitch]

Sept 4, 2012 18:50:04 GMT -5 arrx said:

Hogan is the most overrated wrestler ever, the Great Kali is a better in ring performer than he ever was. Ric Flair is the one the best though.

You say 'wrestler' like such a thing exists. Wrestling is ALL about story telling. Hogan was the greatest at that. Outside this the concept of a 'wrestler' exists no more than someone is an 'author' if they write words down onto a piece of paper which nobody cares to read.

So Hogan who could have the crowd eating out of his hands after something simple like being punched is a worse in ring performer than guys who need pyro, chairs, blood, nudity, violence and swearing to even get half the crowd to raise an eyebrow?

Your terms of reference are skewed.

[SeVeN: #TheBadGuy.]

Hogan could roll out in a wheel chair at the age of 80, I will still mark like a 5 year old kid. Two weeks ago on iMPACT when the crowd were chanting "We want Hogan", it gave me a warm feeling. There will never be another Hogan.

Flair I respect him but never really cared for him till he came back as the GM. Now, i would watch him work his flabby ass off against any modern wrestler. Regardless of age or physique the man can still hang with anybody.

It'll be a sad day in the wrestling world when these two go to the main event in the sky.

[Apricots And A Pear Tree]

Sept 4, 2012 18:50:04 GMT -5 arrx said:

Hogan is the most overrated wrestler ever, the Great Kali is a better in ring performer than he ever was.

....................

[The Portable Stove]

Heenan kinda said it best. People say Hogan isn't a good worker. He put his hand to his ear and the crowd erupted. He's a fantastic worker.

Yes, that was during the time where big man vs. big man matches generally did drag and weren't particularly good workrate-wise, but you can't say those matches WEREN'T immersive. Take Hogan/Warrior I, for instance.

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2012 20:30:51 GMT -5 The Portable Stove said:

Heenan kinda said it best. People say Hogan isn't a good worker. He put his hand to his ear and the crowd erupted. He's a fantastic worker.

Yes, that was during the time where big man vs. big man matches generally did drag and weren't particularly good workrate-wise, but you can't say those matches WEREN'T immersive. Take Hogan/Warrior I, for instance.

The response Hogan got as a heel against The freaking Rock was enough to make any guy born in the 80s and early 90s mark

[notasmark]

The problem with most internet fans is the fact they mostly don't know what they're talking about or care about PURE wrestling talent and that's it.

Hogan is quite frankly a legend who has been relevant for decades and can still put people in an arena. It's why I laugh when I go on the TNA forum and you always have a few smarks saying to fire Hogan because he brings nothing to the table.

Hogan brings so much exposure to TNA but some smarks don't recognize that. The man is covered by major media outlets worldwide and is the biggest legend and celebrity wrestling has ever seen.

If you go on Facebook, Hogan by himself has approximately 443k followers. TNA itself only has 700 thousand something. This in my mind shows Hogan's value.

I was at the Hulkamania Tour in 2009 just before Hulk signed with TNA. Hulk wrestled Ric Flair in front of 5-6 thousand fans and the reaction for him was deafening. Hogan fills arena's and the fans still idolize him.

As for Flair, He's also one of the biggest legends as well but has gone through a rough patch lately. It's a shame he didn't want to work in TNA anymore because I feel he could of been great for them long term.

It is hard to respect the guy. Lately I've had to take a very historic approach to Ric Flair because what he's currently doing is ruining his image. I think he needs a steady job within wrestling but he seems to have lost most opportunities for a regular job now.

Ric even in his 60's is awesome though and definitely a draw. It's a shame to see people making fun of him.

Both of these guys add things to wrestling companies even when both can barely move and that's the sign of a good wrestler. Someone above said wrestling is all about the stories and that poster is 100% correct. People today in the United States would pay to see Hulk Hogan Vs Ric Flair. That match could sell out an arena.

Davey Richards Vs Roderick Strong would be lucky to sell out a community hall that has a few hundred seats to be filled. It's the most annoying thing in the world when people try and say PURE wrestlers are better then the entertainers.

[MichaelMartini]

Agree 100 percent about the story telling comments. I recently watched Hogan's Unreleased collector's set and although he wasn't doing a dozen rotations on a shooting star press, every match was different. All that work rate stuff is boring. Once you've seen one spot fest match, you've seen them all. I watch wrestling for wrestling, not to see some Cirque De soliel crap. A Hogan match was easier to get involved in because it looked more real. All the crazy spot fest stuff too often looks like dancing. It's not like he didn't bump either, he was just smart about it.

Flair's personal problems make him seem like and old fool now but he should never not be considered one of the all time greats.

[notasmark]

If I may add something as well.

A lot of smarks often make the comments that Hogan can't do the pure wrestling stuff. If you search his early Japan work he shows that he's not just a 5 move guy and whips out a lot of stuff that you never saw in the States.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

We look too much into Ric Flair's personal life and underrate him? Please. Ric Flair gets off lightly compared to others because he's seen as a great worker. He's gotten away with things no other wrestler would have without anywhere near the condemnation others have received for far less and I honestly don't think he has ever been entertaining enough to make me overlook that. People claim the WWF were right to do what they did to Bret Hart because he may turn up on WCW tv with the title, despite the fact he had a month left on his contract, Ric Flair was the guy who actually turned up in the WWF with WCW's heavyweight title and allowed it to be put on TV but gets a pass for that. People trash Warrior saying he was only in it for the money and for allegedly holding up the WWF at events for more? Flair did that in public to a convention organiser then had the nerve to thank the organiser in a speech moments later. Davey Richards steals hundreds of dollars from a promoter and refuses to perform? Ric Flair took tens of thousands from RoH at a time they couldn't afford it and skips to TNA then quits on them because they won't cater to his every whim like the WWE would, despite their bending over backwards, giving him consideration no other talent would get. People excuse his behaviour by saying 'he lives his gimmick', but really, that doesn't justify anything.

Flair was a great worker when he wanted to be, but his best years were a long long time ago. No-one made him go out there and act the way he has, no-one forced him to burn everyone stupid enough to expect him to act like a professional, nor did they force him to keep on wrestling long, long past his prime, that was all on him and he deserves criticism for it. He's not someone who's stuck in wrestling because it's all he has, the WWE offered him an out, offered him more money than a lot of people in wrestling earn for considerably less work but that isn't enough for him. The fans haven't made Ric Flair into a caricature, he's done that to himself... woo!

Hogan on the other hand is underrated, I may not like how selfish he has been from a booking standpoint over the years, but he's never been anything less than professional with the company that hired him and with the fans. I have never been a fan of his, but he was an influential figure in two boom periods and deserves some respect for that, he has shown he's capable of adapting and getting over anywhere. He got over with the superhero stuff in the WWF, worked a more technical style in Japan, when his superhero act failed in WCW, he turned heel and now he's finally winning over TNA fans.

[theryno665]

To me, a lot of the problem Hogan and Flair have is that they're in TNA (or were, in Flair's case). For whatever reason, it just seems like TNA doesn't know how to use legends with such stature. For all the criticism they get, you just know the second they pop back up in WWE, everyone's going to love them again, at least for a little while.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Sept 5, 2012 2:53:05 GMT -5 notasmark said:

If I may add something as well.

A lot of smarks often make the comments that Hogan can't do the pure wrestling stuff. If you search his early Japan work he shows that he's not just a 5 move guy and whips out a lot of stuff that you never saw in the States.

I saw a match he had in 1981 with Inoki or somebody and the first thing he does is a takedown into an STF. That absolutely blew my mind.

[YAKMAN is ICHIBAN]

I think the general opinion on each would be

-Hogan is an all-time top guy. He did everything he needed to in the ring in the US, but your mileage may vary on how much you liked his schtick. His work in Japan shows he could go if he needed to.

-Flair is right up there. His ring work and charisma are legendary. If you weren't a Hogan and WWF big man style fan, you probably were a fan of Flair's NWA-flavored offerings. They are each the cream of the crop in their particular style.


and I'd wager that most people can seperate the performers from their awful personal lives (and awful alimony obligations)

[chazraps]

Sept 4, 2012 18:43:16 GMT -5 The OP said:

A lot of people are very judgmental and even mean spirited. I don't really know what else to say about it other than I agree these guys deserve more respect from fans. I think wrestlers in general do, really.

Flair hasn't paid taxes in two decades and has thrown countless lives around him into chaos.

Hogan let his underage son and his buddies drink and then race his cars on a busy road that could have killed dozens, and resulted in one boy being braindead, which Hogan later said the kid had coming to him.

Much respect to what they've done in the ring, but in terms of overall respect, I don't think it's fair to frown upon people losing respect for human beings who commit such acts.

[hitch]

Sept 5, 2012 13:40:54 GMT -5 chazraps said:

Sept 4, 2012 18:43:16 GMT -5 The OP said:

A lot of people are very judgmental and even mean spirited. I don't really know what else to say about it other than I agree these guys deserve more respect from fans. I think wrestlers in general do, really.

Flair hasn't paid taxes in two decades and has thrown countless lives around him into chaos.

Hogan let his underage son and his buddies drink and then race his cars on a busy road that could have killed dozens, and resulted in one boy being braindead, which Hogan later said the kid had coming to him.

Much respect to what they've done in the ring, but in terms of overall respect, I don't think it's fair to frown upon people losing respect for human beings who commit such acts.

What 'acts' ?

Lets have you display details of your life and that of all immediate family and see from which position these stones are being thrown from.

No disrespect but Flair's crap and marriage at Hogan has an idiot son. That doesn't make them a hell of a lot different to the rest of us.