saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Sabu
Sept 6, 2012 23:39:16 GMT -5
Post by saintpat on Sept 6, 2012 23:39:16 GMT -5
To be honest, back in the day I wasn't his biggest fan. I had never heard of him before I discovered ECW late-night on MSG Network (when I first got a satellite dish and EC-dub was early in its run).
I knew he had a great look but for whatever reason I gravitated more towards Shane Douglas, RVD and some others.
Recently I've begun to appreciate him more and more. I was surprised to learn (if true) that he's about my age -- got the impession that he was much older, maybe because I figured you'd have to be to have that many battle scars.
The more I see of him now, just wow.
I'd like some takes of what other people think/thought of him:
How far ahead of his time was he? Was he crashing through tables before he got to ECW? Was he doing moonsaults off of chair launches before then, or the other high-risk (as in risk to his body, not losing the match) maneuvers for a while before that in Detroit or wherever, or did that evolve because of ECW?
I know he was in that FMW martial arts/garbage wrestling promotion in Japan a lot pre-ECW -- how much did what he brought from there influence the "extreme" part of ECW? It obviously went from innovative scripts and characters but mostly traditional wrestling into death-match style rather quickly -- was that more from Sabu or from Heyman or others?
Would ECW have caught on, or caught on as quickly, without him? A lot of guys in the beginning were wrestlers who didn't make it with the big promotions, career jobbers or guys with little or no recognition or experience (mixed in with a few older hands like Funk) -- was a guy with Sabu's look who was doing things most of us had never seen essential, crucial, to getting people to watch ECW and helping draw enough of an audience to allow it to mature and grow into what it become?
Finally, is Sabu -- considering all of the above -- one of the most influential wrestlers in the last 20 years? Did he lead the extreme revolution?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Sabu
Sept 7, 2012 1:11:44 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2012 1:11:44 GMT -5
Sabu is legit.
His style is way spotish, but he'll straight up do whatever. He 100% does not wrestle with a sense of self preservation. He just wants you to care. He ain't a bad dude. It sucks so many people regard him as a pilled out botchmonkey these days.
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Sabu
Sept 7, 2012 3:29:41 GMT -5
Post by notasmark on Sept 7, 2012 3:29:41 GMT -5
Sabu is one of those guys who is a legend and icon but can't go anymore.
I saw him wrestle back in 2007 fresh off his WWE run and to be quite honest it was cool seeing him and he was a draw but we got an 8 minute match with a local indy guy. Basically Sabu got all his big moves in and bumped for this guy.
Sabu at that point was broken down and quite frankly couldn't do much. At this point 5 years later I can't imagine how he's doing in the indies.
He was an originator though, Was one of the first guys to start the "Extreme era" in all of wrestling. He originated the tables and a lot of his shit was very unique. The problem is that he is famous for an extremely dangerous style of wrestling so anyone who books him expects that from him.
If we assume Sabu gets 50 dates a year that's probably 50 tables he has to go through (If not more) and probably triple that in leg drops, moonsaults etc. That's why he's so broken down at only 47 years old his body is getting so damaged every night he does this shit.
He should of been done in like 2008 or something. Finished up his WWE run. Worked the indies for 6 months done a retirement tour and ultimately have a retirement show at the ECW Arena or something.
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Sabu
Sept 7, 2012 10:31:28 GMT -5
Post by Slingshot Suplay on Sept 7, 2012 10:31:28 GMT -5
Sabu is one of those guys (I'd throw X-Pac, Jerry Lynn and 2 Cold Scorpio in the mix too) who brought an innovative style to the u.s. in the early 90's. They were doing some amazing and innovative high flying moves in the days when the most you'd get from a "high flyer" is a flying body press. I used to see him do the moonsault, Arabian facebuster or put someone through a table in pictures in PWI or the wrestler mags and be amazed because I never saw anything like that before. It really made him stand out and made me watch early ECW because I knew Sabu was going to do something crazy.
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Sabu
Sept 7, 2012 10:38:11 GMT -5
Post by Medicinal Thunder Liger on Sept 7, 2012 10:38:11 GMT -5
for all of the flack he gets, Sabu was a really solid techincal wrestler in his day. he placed 7th for the state high school wrestling team and he was wrestling for years before he began the crazier stuff in 91-92 or so. his NJPW work doesnt get talked about much specifically him and eddie/him and lyger.
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beamanhogan
Team Rocket
RIP - Macho for Hall of Fame
Posts: 867
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Sabu
Sept 7, 2012 11:39:06 GMT -5
Post by beamanhogan on Sept 7, 2012 11:39:06 GMT -5
I like him a lot. He had a unique style and had decent ring psychology and timing for someone who is considered a spot monkey. I also think his entrance music in his WWE run was amazing.
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CaptainFall
Samurai Cop
'Fascinating is the word of the day'
Posts: 2,151
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Sabu
Sept 7, 2012 11:55:31 GMT -5
Post by CaptainFall on Sept 7, 2012 11:55:31 GMT -5
Absolutely love the guy. One of the best things about ECW were those lights out moments and when they'd come back on there would be Sabu standing in the ring doing his point.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Sabu
Sept 7, 2012 12:15:57 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2012 12:15:57 GMT -5
Absolutely love the guy. One of the best things about ECW were those lights out moments and when they'd come back on there would be Sabu standing in the ring doing his point. I was so young when this happened, but I like to go back on YouTube and watch the clip where he shows up in the ring with Taz and the crowd goes berserk.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Sabu
Sept 7, 2012 12:53:44 GMT -5
Post by saintpat on Sept 7, 2012 12:53:44 GMT -5
Absolutely love the guy. One of the best things about ECW were those lights out moments and when they'd come back on there would be Sabu standing in the ring doing his point. I was so young when this happened, but I like to go back on YouTube and watch the clip where he shows up in the ring with Taz and the crowd goes berserk. That still gives me chills when i see it -- ecw understood drama
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Sabu
Sept 7, 2012 15:29:48 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2012 15:29:48 GMT -5
Sabu was my favorite wrestler for a long time, because when he was at his peak there was no other wrestler that I wanted to watch more. Sabu in 93 or so was so far ahead of his time that most people still haven't caught up. A true innovator and a great character.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Sabu
Sept 8, 2012 9:25:08 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2012 9:25:08 GMT -5
First match I saw him in was when he faced Shane Douglas at "Heat Wave '94: Battle For The Future" for the ECW title. I had never seen Sabu wrestle, but heard a lot about him. Shane won by count-out. Sabu leaned a table up against the ring barrier and put Shane in front of it. Then Sabu would bounce off the ropes and leap over the top rope to somersault onto Shane, who moved. Sabu hit the table landed on his head. Sabu couldn't answer the count.
Obviously, I had to see more of this guy. He was a different breed of wrestler I had never seen before.
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Sabu
Sept 8, 2012 9:39:12 GMT -5
Post by eDemento2099 on Sept 8, 2012 9:39:12 GMT -5
Sabu is one of those guys (I'd throw X-Pac, Jerry Lynn and 2 Cold Scorpio in the mix too) who brought an innovative style to the u.s. in the early 90's. They were doing some amazing and innovative high flying moves in the days when the most you'd get from a "high flyer" is a flying body press. I used to see him do the moonsault, Arabian facebuster or put someone through a table in pictures in PWI or the wrestler mags and be amazed because I never saw anything like that before. It really made him stand out and made me watch early ECW because I knew Sabu was going to do something crazy. I agree with this post, and was drawn to order ECW tapes by the photos of Sabu I saw in the Apter magazines. I don't remember X-Pac/The 1-2-3 Kid being much of a high-flyer, though, unless you count spinning jump kicks. Also, I never even knew of Jerry Lynn until I saw him wrestle RVD in ECW circa 1999. As far as I am concerned, Sabu is easily one of the most influential wrestlers I've seen in over two decades of following wrestling. In his autobiography, Bret Hart stresses that although he disapproves of hardcore/extreme wrestling, he was blown away by how innovative Sabu was.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Sabu
Sept 8, 2012 9:59:00 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2012 9:59:00 GMT -5
Sabu is one of those guys (I'd throw X-Pac, Jerry Lynn and 2 Cold Scorpio in the mix too) who brought an innovative style to the u.s. in the early 90's. They were doing some amazing and innovative high flying moves in the days when the most you'd get from a "high flyer" is a flying body press. I used to see him do the moonsault, Arabian facebuster or put someone through a table in pictures in PWI or the wrestler mags and be amazed because I never saw anything like that before. It really made him stand out and made me watch early ECW because I knew Sabu was going to do something crazy. I agree with this post, and was drawn to order ECW tapes by the photos of Sabu I saw in the Apter magazines. I don't remember X-Pac/The 1-2-3 Kid being much of a high-flyer, though, unless you count spinning jump kicks. Also, I never even knew of Jerry Lynn until I saw him wrestle RVD in ECW circa 1999. As far as I am concerned, Sabu is easily one of the most influential wrestlers I've seen in over two decades of following wrestling. In his autobiography, Bret Hart stresses that although he disapproves of hardcore/extreme wrestling, he was blown away by how innovative Sabu was. Back in his days as the Lightning Kid, X-Pac was doing all sorts of crazy high flying moves
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Sabu
Sept 8, 2012 11:03:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2012 11:03:55 GMT -5
GWF's Lightning Kid would do a spinning elbow off the top rope down to the floor. It would be on the future "Prime Time" Brian Lee (he was considered a lightweight at the time) and another guy we would soon know as Jerry Lynn.
He'd also do a somersault in the same manner. Just blew my mind somebody would execute something like that. He was almost like the new Dynamite Kid.
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DavidArquette
Don Corleone
The actor formerly known as avanteproject
Posts: 1,542
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Sabu
Sept 9, 2012 11:30:17 GMT -5
Post by DavidArquette on Sept 9, 2012 11:30:17 GMT -5
He botched just as much as he innovated, really. But at least he did bring something new to the US wrestling scene.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Sabu
Sept 9, 2012 15:59:29 GMT -5
Post by saintpat on Sept 9, 2012 15:59:29 GMT -5
He botched just as much as he innovated, really. But at least he did bring something new to the US wrestling scene. I think the word "botch" is thrown around too freely and loosely, at least for my taste, as it concerns high-flyers in paraticular. The whole idea behing a high flyer -- be it someone crazy like Sabu or someone more finesse like say Jeff Hardy -- is that the moves are high risk. If they hit what they do every time, where's the risk? Doing stuff like Sabu was doing, it's a high-wire act with no net. You can't do things like that and hit every time, so when they miss it's part of what makes their high-risk, high-reward style work. If it's only high reward with no risk, I guess everyone would do it. From my perspective, it's more of a "botch" if RVD rolls over three times and jumps up for a 3-foot splah that doesn't create enough of an impact to bust a grape and the guy isn't standing up in the corner reading a newspaper by the time rolly-polly gets there. It's not a botch as defined by mis-execution of the move as planned so much as a botch on the part of whoever thought anyone would believe it would damage the opponent or that the opponent would lie around that long to take the move -- if he's that out of it, go ahead and pin him and get it over with.
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Sabu
Sept 10, 2012 6:57:16 GMT -5
Post by bertheart90 on Sept 10, 2012 6:57:16 GMT -5
How good a match would have Lightning Kid Sabu been
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Sabu
Sept 10, 2012 7:25:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2012 7:25:04 GMT -5
How good a match would have Lightning Kid Sabu been It was one of the more noteworthy indy matches of the early '90s. Bear with the horrible quality of this video. Both of them were still relatively new to wrestling around this time, but you can see how they were doing everything possible to steal the show and get noticed.
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Sabu
Sept 10, 2012 8:21:37 GMT -5
Post by bertheart90 on Sept 10, 2012 8:21:37 GMT -5
How good a match would have Lightning Kid Sabu been It was one of the more noteworthy indy matches of the early '90s. Bear with the horrible quality of this video. Both of them were still relatively new to wrestling around this time, but you can see how they were doing everything possible to steal the show and get noticed. Thanks for that was a good match up for two newish guys
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Sabu
Sept 10, 2012 8:23:18 GMT -5
Post by bertheart90 on Sept 10, 2012 8:23:18 GMT -5
Im sure on AOW gabe said sabu got ecw through its 1st year singlehanded without him they would have folded
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