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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 6, 2012 21:16:27 GMT -5
It seems lately that every time I check in a gaming site, I read some new accusation of sexism, whether it's the Tomb Raider thing or the Hitman trailer or the incident about Felicia Day on intern Ryan's twitter, or way back with Arkham City and even the big incident that shall not be named. Really, one was marked as sexism, and it was more focusing too much on trolls. The others are just gross overreactions.
I'm just sick of hearing everything being somehow sexist or an example of "gamers needing to grow up" (Bleh!) and the sense of self righteousness that it causes. I probably wouldn't have made this thread, but it keeps getting brought up over and over again.
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Post by lockedontarget on Jul 6, 2012 22:24:10 GMT -5
People are talking about it because it is a legit issue. Portrayal of female characters compared to male characters is incredibly unbalanced towards sexualization, women in the industry get disrespected constantly for their gender, and a lot of fans display misogynistic behavior in "gamer culture". That doesn't mean that everyone and everything is sexist, bit it is a very real thing that exists and blankets a lot of how in the industry and culture operates. Talking about these things and taking them to task is the way to increase awareness and work towards improvement. You are seeing more and more articles and discussion surrounding this because a growing number of men AND women are getting tired of what is quite honestly still a juvenile industry in a lot of ways.
People will stop complaining about rampant sexism when it's no longer rampant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2012 22:32:06 GMT -5
Sexism in video games is a major problem. It doesn't exist with every game series out there, but it definitely exists with some. I mean, heck, just look at all the video game characters who have massive boobs for no reason and have or have one-dimensional personalities (whether they be laughably immune to everything, or vulnerable to anything, either is a negative portrayal). It's not something that can just be waved off so quickly. Video games, right now, extend sexism much in the same way that most popular media does, and it probably will continue to do so for years, though it's moving in a positive direction much faster.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jul 6, 2012 22:36:31 GMT -5
People are talking about it because it is a legit issue. Portrayal of female characters compared to male characters is incredibly unbalanced towards sexualization, women in the industry get disrespected constantly for their gender, and a lot of fans display misogynistic behavior in "gamer culture". That doesn't mean that everyone and everything is sexist, bit it is a very real thing that exists and blankets a lot of how in the industry and culture operates. Talking about these things and taking them to task is the way to increase awareness and work towards improvement. You are seeing more and more articles and discussion surrounding this because a growing number of men AND women are getting tired of what is quite honestly still a juvenile industry in a lot of ways. People will stop complaining about rampant sexism when it's no longer rampant. The thing is, the same issues you see in gaming, is the same issues in comics and in film, to be honest. And if they haven't gone away from film and comics with how long film and comics have been around, they certainly aren't going away in video games any time soon. People can complain all they want, hell I'll admit I'm kind of tired by it too, if only because it can get really stupid, like that Hitman trailer. Really? Female assassins dressed as nuns in skin-tight leather outfits? REALLY?! That's just so damn stupid! But at the end of the day, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon. Especially when their idea of rebooting/telling the origin story of one of gaming's most iconic female characters is throwing literally every damn possible instance of the "break the cutie" trope at her, including an attempted rape scene, not to make Lara a better character, oh no, but to make players want to protect Lara(that last bit came directly from one of the guys behind the game itself). |
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King Ghidorah
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Post by King Ghidorah on Jul 6, 2012 22:38:34 GMT -5
Sex sells, until it stops selling, sexism will continue. Accept it.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jul 6, 2012 22:40:10 GMT -5
Sex sells, until it stops selling, sexism will continue. Accept it. The thing is, sex really DOESN'T sell. If it did, games like Lollipop Chainsaw would be flying off the shelves just because of how the main character is designed. Hell, if sex sells, Catherine would've been a multimillion copy seller, instead of the slightly over 500,000 dollar seller it was. |
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Jul 6, 2012 22:40:15 GMT -5
Sex sells, until it stops selling, sexism will continue. Accept it.  |
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Post by lockedontarget on Jul 6, 2012 22:40:20 GMT -5
You're right in that other media has it's problems, too. A lot of the problems with sexism in gaming is especially also there with comics.
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erisi236
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... enjoys the rich, smooth taste of Camels.
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Post by erisi236 on Jul 6, 2012 22:42:08 GMT -5
Just a summer fad that everyone will go back to not caring about when the leaves change.
Meanwhile stuff like this will forever be made for people to have a good laugh at.
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King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
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Post by King Ghidorah on Jul 6, 2012 22:42:49 GMT -5
Sex sells, until it stops selling, sexism will continue. Accept it. Bad games will always be bad games. I worked at gamestop for about 3 years, I've seen the masses buy GTA IV just for Candy Blows. |
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jul 6, 2012 22:44:43 GMT -5
The thing more disturbing to me, honestly is just how badly both games and mainstream comics(gotta qualify it with that as indie comics tend to have a better grasp on things) treat the general overall topic of sex period.
They both fumble around with sexual orientation, proper portrayals of characters of said orientations, gender roles, and hell just the act of sex itself. Have you seen a lot of the sex scenes in video games and mainstream comics? Laughably bad! Almost as if the people behind them never had sex before in their life........
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Post by lockedontarget on Jul 6, 2012 22:46:37 GMT -5
Sex sells, until it stops selling, sexism will continue. Accept it. That's not even close to what the entire issue is about. It's also not as simple as saying selling sex appeal is sexism, either. Because it isn't on it's own. I don't think many rational people are going to accuse everyone who creates and views the latest Playboy of sexism. |
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Post by juvijuiceisloose on Jul 6, 2012 22:50:13 GMT -5
I think the problem is women involved either directly or indirectly with the gaming industry is called a phony if she looks anything other than slightly above average looking.
Apparently no woman likes or has ever played a video game.
To me, it was rampant during E3. So many tweets came across my timeline about how this "bitch", or this "whore", or this, "c-word" knows nothing about gaming.
Hell, ask Aisha Tyler about sexism (and racism) in the gaming community.
It just seems like no woman is good enough to these people.
Nobody would ever accuse Nathan Fillion of pandering to geeks and nerds, right?
This seems to only happen with women, IMO.
"Ah, she's not really a gamer!" "She's not really a nerd!" "She's just using gaming to further her career"!
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
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Post by The OP on Jul 6, 2012 22:53:44 GMT -5
People are talking about it because it is a legit issue. Portrayal of female characters compared to male characters is incredibly unbalanced towards sexualization, women in the industry get disrespected constantly for their gender, and a lot of fans display misogynistic behavior in "gamer culture". That doesn't mean that everyone and everything is sexist, bit it is a very real thing that exists and blankets a lot of how in the industry and culture operates. Talking about these things and taking them to task is the way to increase awareness and work towards improvement. You are seeing more and more articles and discussion surrounding this because a growing number of men AND women are getting tired of what is quite honestly still a juvenile industry in a lot of ways. People will stop complaining about rampant sexism when it's no longer rampant. Pretty much this. The irony of this thread is, bringing it up is only counter-productive if you're tired of hearing about it. |
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jul 6, 2012 22:58:46 GMT -5
I think the problem is women involved either directly or indirectly with the gaming industry is called a phony if she looks anything other than slightly above average looking. Apparently no woman likes or has ever played a video game. To me, it was rampant during E3. So many tweets came across my timeline about how this "bitch", or this "whore", or this, "c-word" knows nothing about gaming. Hell, ask Aisha Tyler about sexism (and racism) in the gaming community. It just seems like no woman is good enough to these people. Nobody would ever accuse Nathan Fillion of pandering to geeks and nerds, right? This seems to only happen with women, IMO. "Ah, she's not really a gamer!" "She's not really a nerd!" "She's just using gaming to further her career"! Honestly that part does have some reasoning behind it. Not that I condone it, but remember Olivia Munn? She 100% belongs to that mold. Seeing a lot of her interviews at E3 during her time at G4 made it painfully clear she knew jack and all about games or really anything geek related. Another possible reason for that is a lot of those geeks saying that stuff are just still pissed off any hot chicks they met in high school turned them down. Again not condoning it, just saying possible reasons for it. Now as for Aisha Tyler, my problem with her at Ubisoft's press conference wasn't that she was a chick. It was that she was a bad host. Not as bad as that scrawny white guy she had to work with, but still, she was a pretty bad host. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 6, 2012 22:59:30 GMT -5
The thing more disturbing to me, honestly is just how badly both games and mainstream comics(gotta qualify it with that as indie comics tend to have a better grasp on things) treat the general overall topic of sex period. They both fumble around with sexual orientation, proper portrayals of characters of said orientations, gender roles, and hell just the act of sex itself. Have you seen a lot of the sex scenes in video games and mainstream comics? Laughably bad! Almost as if the people behind them never had sex before in their life........ Sadly when you're dealing with a young storytelling medium, odds are good that it won't have stories told by real masters who can handle such issues with more maturity or care. The end result involves stories that handle these things in a ham-fisted way, often while trying to come across as earnest and realistic (see: just falling into giving a gay character campy tendencies, the Lara Croft example already mentioned, etc. etc.). Comics aren't much better off; I'm no comics expert, but I have to figure that the comic industry didn't really make it a mission statement to attempt to be more realistic in these situations until around the 80's, and go figure, most of the depictions were sloppy, dark and edgy for the sake of being dark and edgy, all that good stuff. The format needs to mature and develop, and better storytelling and character crafting minds need to get involved if they want to tackle issues like these. I'd never argue that fanservice has no place anywhere (look at how many movies will do it, despite there being plenty of movies that handle sexuality wonderfully), but it's true that sexism in "geek culture" is rampant and often times horrifying, and it won't change until the medium itself matures to a higher level. |
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King Ghidorah
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Post by King Ghidorah on Jul 6, 2012 23:08:58 GMT -5
Aisha Tyler is the most self centered person on G4, that's why people don't like her. She's so damn smug.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jul 6, 2012 23:13:59 GMT -5
The thing more disturbing to me, honestly is just how badly both games and mainstream comics(gotta qualify it with that as indie comics tend to have a better grasp on things) treat the general overall topic of sex period. They both fumble around with sexual orientation, proper portrayals of characters of said orientations, gender roles, and hell just the act of sex itself. Have you seen a lot of the sex scenes in video games and mainstream comics? Laughably bad! Almost as if the people behind them never had sex before in their life........ That is less lack of knowledge about sex(Awesome use of a veiled insult against people you don't know to prove your point, by the way, very nice), and more the limitations of the medium. No game is gonna show full on sex without getting an AO rating, not since the "Hot Coffee" controversy, and the graphical limits of the medium make it look awkward because of the uncanny valley. Don't attribute ignorance to simple limitation. |
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ibdude
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Post by ibdude on Jul 6, 2012 23:19:36 GMT -5
As long as men run the industry this will always happen.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jul 6, 2012 23:21:27 GMT -5
The thing more disturbing to me, honestly is just how badly both games and mainstream comics(gotta qualify it with that as indie comics tend to have a better grasp on things) treat the general overall topic of sex period. They both fumble around with sexual orientation, proper portrayals of characters of said orientations, gender roles, and hell just the act of sex itself. Have you seen a lot of the sex scenes in video games and mainstream comics? Laughably bad! Almost as if the people behind them never had sex before in their life........ That is less lack of knowledge about sex(Awesome use of a veiled insult against people you don't know to prove your point, by the way, very nice), and more the limitations of the medium. No game is gonna show full on sex without getting an AO rating, not since the "Hot Coffee" controversy, and the graphical limits of the medium make it look awkward because of the uncanny valley. Don't attribute ignorance to simple limitation. Wait.....what? I didn't use any veiled insult. If you thought that was what I was going for, you sir are very wrong in that. I'm just saying that they often write/depict sex in a very, VERY awkward and hilariously bad way. Like if they hand creative control over sex scenes to a sexually awkward teen. |
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