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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 2:34:08 GMT -5
I'll answer your question with a question: What makes Daniel Bryan stand out? His ability in the ring. There are a lot of people good in the ring. Bryan just brings nothing else of note to the table, including an interesting look. Unless you count that awful, awful beard.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Jan 6, 2012 2:35:04 GMT -5
I'm a little confused, Bryan especially recently has been cutting good promos and showing a lot of personality and now all of a sudden he's bland what's up with that? It's not like people changed opinions or anything. It's just that the people that say they don't like Bryan...never did, really. And it's only now being brought up because he's in a position worth talking about. I"m kind alike it,i just like the wrestler that entertains me,be it in the ring,or out of it.Both better. it's... Off-Ring personality/mannerism x Wrestling skills So if the persons has nothing of one,i wont like.Tough i probaly like more charisma and mannerisms,since MVP is my favourite wrestler Totally agree. I definitely am first and foremost interested in a wrestler due to character and mannerisms, but if they enter the ring and can't do s***, my liking of that wrestler will most probably end right then and there, haha. In-ring talent only increases my delight and probable flailing over a wrestler I like. Although, I do like Sin Cara, so some people could throw that in my face (although I personally don't think he's as bad as some people say he is, but that's a topic for another thread, not this one). I like Sin Cara too because I like the flip floppy things he does, botches and all, but most of all because that pointing he does is so goddamn charismatic. Yeah, with me it's also like that. Charisma/mannerisms/quirks/personality first, then wrestling. I can be satisfied with average(Ryder is pretty average but he's my favorite wrestler) but wrestling definitely adds to it. Glad to know I'm not alone. Thought I'd get killed for saying I preferred personality over wrestling in certain cases.
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Post by juvijuiceisloose on Jan 6, 2012 2:48:20 GMT -5
There are a lot of people good in the ring. Bryan just brings nothing else of note to the table, including an interesting look. Unless you count that awful, awful beard. He's also good on the mic and has a great personality when given time to show it off. Other than C.M. Punk, John Cena, and maybe Randy Orton he's the best babyface mic worker in the company. All those guys are Main Event talent. As far as his looks goes, who cares? This isn't a beauty contest. He certainly has a better look and carries himself better than someone like the Miz who just makes goofy faces in the camera. Daniel Bryan isn't just good in the ring, he's one of the best in the world. Just go back and watch his matches with guys like Ziggler, Dibiase, Cody Rhodes, Tyson Kidd, both Sin Caras. Hell, the only matches the Miz ever had that weren't completely forgettable 20 minutes later were against Daniel Bryan. He's dynamic in the ring. The crowds in the arenas react way more to his matches than they do his entrance. That's what stands out about him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 2:53:50 GMT -5
Is having a good match with Ziggler, DiBiase, Cody, or Kidd even an accomplishment? It's really to be assumed that their matches are good.
Look, Bryan is very good, sure, but he still doesn't particularly entertain me. And since you feel like pointlessly dragging Miz into it, I definitely prefer Miz over him overall.
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Post by juvijuiceisloose on Jan 6, 2012 3:02:54 GMT -5
Is having a good match with Ziggler, DiBiase, Cody, or Kidd even an accomplishment? It's really to be assumed that their matches are good. Look, Bryan is very good, sure, but he still doesn't particularly entertain me. And since you feel like pointlessly dragging Miz into it, I definitely prefer Miz over him overall. Ziggler was not seen as a guy who was that great in the ring until he got in the ring with Daniel Bryan. He hadn't stepped his game up then like he has over the past year. Dibiase's never had a great match with anyone other than Daniel Bryan. Watch those snoozefests he's having with Jinder Mahal and then watch his matches against Bryan and you'll see what I mean. Kidd is probably the most underrated guy in the WWE right now. He's a tremendous worker, and his style meshes extremely well with Daniel Bryan. They've had some really good matches. If you're not a fan of the guy that's fine, but don't say he brings nothing to the table because it's not true.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 6, 2012 3:12:45 GMT -5
I agree with you that Bryan rocks, but I still have to point out plenty of people saw Ziggler as fantastic in the ring before he faced Bryan. He was trained largely by Lance Storm, and had plenty(albeit too many) great matches with Kofi Kingston, among others. Hell, in his debut, he had a fantastic match with Batista of all people.
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Post by Nic Nemeth on Jan 6, 2012 3:30:56 GMT -5
Ziggler was not seen as a guy who was that great in the ring until he got in the ring with Daniel Bryan. He hadn't stepped his game up then like he has over the past year. I know this is your opinion and all, but I completely disagree with you, Dolph Ziggler has been one of the best talents WWE has ever had since his third debut in 2008. Even when he was in Spirit Squad he was their solid workhorse who made sure their complete greeness didn't show. Bryan didn't make Ziggler, Ziggler made Ziggler. He had an amazing match with Batista in his RAW debut, he made a series of Khali matches watchable, he was a surefire candidate for feud of the year with both Rey Mysterio and John Morrison, he had an amazing series of matches with Kane (watch all three in a row), his MITB qualifying match should be on his Best Of DVD, despite how stale his feud with Kofi Kingston was, it was still an amazing series of matches, he had a great match with Kaval, an amazing feud with Edge, and he helped make Ryder a star just like he's making Punk an even bigger star now cause he's just that damn good. #HEEL #SHOWOFF Oh but I agree with what you said about Dibiase, his only good matches were with Bryan.
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Post by BatPunk on Jan 6, 2012 4:01:14 GMT -5
What Daniel Bryan brings to the table....
He is, at this point in time in WWE, the best in ring performer they have. I'm not talking about his move set or his selling, but his overall performance and standard of matches. Since he has arrived in WWE, walking to the ring, he NEVER got any sort of pop. But his matches?? The crowd are ALWAYS into those and they get more rowdy as the matches go on. Dude can work a crowd, which is ultra rare in todays WWE landscape.
And he's only going to get better. His promo's are really getting gong now (not quite up to his heel ROH days, but that will come with time) and once he gets into some big time feuds, he'll be THE man. In the future, we'll being talking about his matches along side HBK's, Angle's and Guererro's.
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Post by Beartato on Jan 6, 2012 4:05:37 GMT -5
^ That.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 6, 2012 4:13:22 GMT -5
Personal take for me is that in-ring talent is nice and all, but you don't need to have it and it alone isn't enough to make someone interesting. You don't need in-ring talent in a business that is centered around wrestling matches? I agree that it isn't necessary for everyone to be Kurt Angle or anything, but everyone should be able to put on a good, entertaining match. Otherwise, they should be in a non-wrestling role. Look at John Cena. He's not a technical wizard, but he knows how to put on an exciting match that has great flow and drama to it. Everyone on the roster needs to be able to do that, otherwise they're a waste of space.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 4:16:06 GMT -5
Personal take for me is that in-ring talent is nice and all, but you don't need to have it and it alone isn't enough to make someone interesting. You don't need in-ring talent in a business that is centered around wrestling matches? I agree that it isn't necessary for everyone to be Kurt Angle or anything, but everyone should be able to put on a good, entertaining match. Otherwise, they should be in a non-wrestling role. Look at John Cena. He's not a technical wizard, but he knows how to put on an exciting match that has great flow and drama to it. Everyone on the roster needs to be able to do that, otherwise they're a waste of space. Well, I don't think being absolutely atrocious is acceptable, just that you don't need to be a master. A good match is good enough. Like, yeah, he's improved and is a good speaker but there's still no way Otunga should be rocketed to the top.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 6, 2012 4:21:13 GMT -5
You don't need in-ring talent in a business that is centered around wrestling matches? I agree that it isn't necessary for everyone to be Kurt Angle or anything, but everyone should be able to put on a good, entertaining match. Otherwise, they should be in a non-wrestling role. Look at John Cena. He's not a technical wizard, but he knows how to put on an exciting match that has great flow and drama to it. Everyone on the roster needs to be able to do that, otherwise they're a waste of space. Well, I don't think being absolutely atrocious is acceptable, just that you don't need to be a master. A good match is good enough. Like, yeah, he's improved and is a good speaker but there's still no way Otunga should be rocketed to the top. Then you and I see eye to eye. My bad for misunderstanding you.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 6, 2012 5:07:16 GMT -5
I'm watching this now... I guarantee that Henry saying "Get outta my damn face! I'll beat your brains out, boy!" will be quoted huge by this time tomorrow. And Bryan's OTT celebrations are really funny.
I just hope that Cole comes around soon if they insist on turning Bryan heel. Because having a World Heavyweight Champion that NO ONE likes, not the fans, not the face commentators, not even the heel commentator, combined with the standard WWE heel booking (acquired situational cowardice), is going to do him absolutely no favours in the long run.
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Post by Nic Nemeth on Jan 6, 2012 5:41:05 GMT -5
I'm watching this now... I guarantee that Henry saying "Get outta my damn face! I'll beat your brains out, boy!" will be quoted huge by this time tomorrow. And Bryan's OTT celebrations are really funny. I just hope that Cole comes around soon if they insist on turning Bryan heel. Because having a World Heavyweight Champion that NO ONE likes, not the fans, not the face commentators, not even the heel commentator, combined with the standard WWE heel booking (acquired situational cowardice), is going to do him absolutely no favours in the long run. No Cole should continue to hate him, it would make Bryan the ultimate heel if even Michael Cole won't show him support.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 6:22:43 GMT -5
Where did the impression that Daniel Bryan made Dolph Ziggler come from? Dolph Ziggler is over because of his character mixed with his ability. He can be compelling in and out of the ring.
What is Daniel Bryan's character? He can do submissions good...that's about it. See, I don't buy the 'badass nerd who can kick ass'. He doesn't look like a badass at all. Kevin Nash could probably kick his ass, to be honest. Just because Daniel Bryan is admittedly exceptional in the ring doesn't mean he is the ultimate in everything.
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Post by t3hmaniac on Jan 6, 2012 9:35:56 GMT -5
Where did the impression that Daniel Bryan made Dolph Ziggler come from? Dolph Ziggler is over because of his character mixed with his ability. He can be compelling in and out of the ring. What is Daniel Bryan's character? He can do submissions good...that's about it. See, I don't buy the 'badass nerd who can kick ass'. He doesn't look like a badass at all. Kevin Nash could probably kick his ass, to be honest. Just because Daniel Bryan is admittedly exceptional in the ring doesn't mean he is the ultimate in everything. People started paying real attention to Ziggler as a potential ME prospect after matches with Daniel Bryan. And being exceptional in one aspect of this buisness puts him miles away from most of the roster.
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Post by 543Y2J on Jan 6, 2012 9:54:49 GMT -5
What Daniel Bryan brings to the table.... He is, at this point in time in WWE, the best in ring performer they have. I'm not talking about his move set or his selling, but his overall performance and standard of matches. Since he has arrived in WWE, walking to the ring, he NEVER got any sort of pop. But his matches?? The crowd are ALWAYS into those and they get more rowdy as the matches go on. Dude can work a crowd, which is ultra rare in todays WWE landscape. And he's only going to get better. His promo's are really getting gong now (not quite up to his heel ROH days, but that will come with time) and once he gets into some big time feuds, he'll be THE man. In the future, we'll being talking about his matches along side HBK's, Angle's and Guererro's. This. Bryan may not be classed as over by some people, but he has been making people pay attention to the matches he has once the bell rings. The live audience finds it incredibly easy to get behind the guy whatever his character is at that time. By the end of most matches DB has the crowd standing and appluading. Yes he might not be conventionally over (e.g. pops during entrance and theme music) but he is over (in the matches and the constant daniel bryan chants) and he is an astonishing wrestler (i havnt seen him in one bad match since entering the company).
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Jan 6, 2012 10:39:03 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of Bryan but he's always seemed to me like a guy who would really benefit from having a manager. Somebody better on the mic than he is and who connects better with the audience when cutting promos.
I think Regal would be best for it. Have Regal become his manager with some sort of angle like where Regal is helping Bryan improve his game as whilst he's the best wrestler, he lacks the aggression, cunning and ruthlessness that people need to succeed.
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Post by airraidcrash on Jan 6, 2012 11:00:39 GMT -5
Too many people writing Bryan off. As soon as he gets the chance to have some matches on Pay Per View (it blows my mind that he only had two PPV matches in 2011), he'll be firmly established as a main eventer. His promo with Big Show and heel turn on this weeks Smackdown was really good.
Also, the LeBell lock gets a big pop every time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 11:13:11 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't want him established as a main eventer. Maybe at some point, I guess, but I can think of tons of people I prefer to watch.
Hell, for one, his inevitable Mania match with Orton I would care more about if Barrett were in Bryan's place. As it stands the idea of Bryan / Orton, while it'd make for a good match, just doesn't interest me remotely.
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