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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 1, 2012 5:50:13 GMT -5
Even though they're showing more of the lowcard, they're still treated as non entities and being given jobber entrances on the main shows.
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Post by sludgehammer on Dec 1, 2012 6:31:04 GMT -5
WWE has been amazing lately. Sorry I can't be so cynical. I watched every minute of WWE television throughout the mid-2000s so whatever you can bitch and moan all you guys want, but just be thankful its not 2004 or 2005 again.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 1, 2012 6:41:18 GMT -5
Even though they're showing more of the lowcard, they're still treated as non entities and being given jobber entrances on the main shows. These days, "jobber entrances" cannot be used accurately as a measurement of a person's status in the company, because 75% of the company get them. I mean, Wade Barrett got one on SmackDown this week, and he's on the fringe of the main event.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Dec 1, 2012 8:20:38 GMT -5
This mostly. Not everyone likes the things that you listed. So, everything has to be the way a person wants for them to be happy? I've never seen a heel piledriven on concrete and carried out on a stretcher and I manage to be happy with the product most of the time
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Dec 1, 2012 13:41:23 GMT -5
This mostly. Not everyone likes the things that you listed. So, everything has to be the way a person wants for them to be happy? I've never seen a heel piledriven on concrete and carried out on a stretcher and I manage to be happy with the product most of the time No, but when the opening post is asking why people aren't happy with a product if X amount of things are happening, it's a perfectly plausible response to say that those people aren't enjoying those bits.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 1, 2012 13:43:37 GMT -5
Even though they're showing more of the lowcard, they're still treated as non entities and being given jobber entrances on the main shows. These days, "jobber entrances" cannot be used accurately as a measurement of a person's status in the company, because 75% of the company get them. I mean, Wade Barrett got one on SmackDown this week, and he's on the fringe of the main event. I'd like to think so, but seeing a guy like Ryder creaming his pants on twitter because he actually got a televised entrance seems to tell me otherwise.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 15:01:21 GMT -5
Even though they're showing more of the lowcard, they're still treated as non entities and being given jobber entrances on the main shows. These days, "jobber entrances" cannot be used accurately as a measurement of a person's status in the company, because 75% of the company get them. I mean, Wade Barrett got one on SmackDown this week, and he's on the fringe of the main event. I'm kind of glad they've cut back on entrances, not everyone needs to be shown walking to the ring every week. In fact when they come back from commercial to a match that started during the break I think it makes the pacing of the show a lot better.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Dec 1, 2012 15:18:29 GMT -5
WWE has been amazing lately. Sorry I can't be so cynical. I watched every minute of WWE television throughout the mid-2000s so whatever you can bitch and moan all you guys want, but just be thankful its not 2004 or 2005 again. What was wrong with '04 and '05? You talk like it was 2006.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 15:26:30 GMT -5
WWE has been amazing lately. Sorry I can't be so cynical. I watched every minute of WWE television throughout the mid-2000s so whatever you can bitch and moan all you guys want, but just be thankful its not 2004 or 2005 again. What's with this positive attitude? Next people will be treating each other with respect!
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 1, 2012 15:33:05 GMT -5
WWE lost any good faith it had built up last year. People being pessimistic about things when the company drops the ball so often and so willingly is a logical outcome. Fool me twice etc. Bingo. I try to get excited about stuff, then I'm reminded just how many times I've been excited about stuff only to be disappointed later on. Pretty much this. It seems like they almost freak out if something actually gets over, such as Nexus, so they proceed to cover their tracks by making them look ridiculous. I could go on and on, because they resolve about 80% of their storylines in extremely poor ways, or don't resolve them at all. I put the blame on Vince, since I've heard so many stories about how he's hot for one thing, then loses interest. Almost sounds like he's wanting to entertain himself as opposed to his audience. And he's supposed to be considered a genius?
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 1, 2012 17:21:14 GMT -5
Bingo. I try to get excited about stuff, then I'm reminded just how many times I've been excited about stuff only to be disappointed later on. Pretty much this. It seems like they almost freak out if something actually gets over, such as Nexus, so they proceed to cover their tracks by making them look ridiculous. I could go on and on, because they resolve about 80% of their storylines in extremely poor ways, or don't resolve them at all. I put the blame on Vince, since I've heard so many stories about how he's hot for one thing, then loses interest. Almost sounds like he's wanting to entertain himself as opposed to his audience. And he's supposed to be considered a genius? But he is a genius. Look at this forum, most of us adore at least a handful of things that Vince cooked up. He's a uniquely charismatic and imaginative person. Who is also freakin nuts and egocentric.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 17:59:17 GMT -5
Pretty much this. It seems like they almost freak out if something actually gets over, such as Nexus, so they proceed to cover their tracks by making them look ridiculous. I could go on and on, because they resolve about 80% of their storylines in extremely poor ways, or don't resolve them at all. I put the blame on Vince, since I've heard so many stories about how he's hot for one thing, then loses interest. Almost sounds like he's wanting to entertain himself as opposed to his audience. And he's supposed to be considered a genius? But he is a genius. Look at this forum, most of us adore at least a handful of things that Vince cooked up. He's a uniquely charismatic and imaginative person. Who is also freakin nuts and egocentric. Bam, Vince is a fantastic businessman whose own confidence & insanity has built a product that many of us have watched for years. Sometimes the negatives get a bit much and we take a 6 month break, but somehow the magic is still there making us return, and frankly on a technical level (production/match quality) the show's far far better than it has been at any other time for me even with my complaints. On a different note complaints don't always have to be a sign of a wayward negative mind or Synical Smark (terrible spelling is not a mistake, sorry), I like to say positive things but sometimes you can have legitimate complaints for a product you love so it makes sense in a thread asking "why aren't people loving the product more?" to reply with a few comments about why people don't.
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Post by xCompackx on Dec 1, 2012 18:52:11 GMT -5
Bingo. I try to get excited about stuff, then I'm reminded just how many times I've been excited about stuff only to be disappointed later on. Pretty much this. It seems like they almost freak out if something actually gets over, such as Nexus, so they proceed to cover their tracks by making them look ridiculous. I could go on and on, because they resolve about 80% of their storylines in extremely poor ways, or don't resolve them at all. I put the blame on Vince, since I've heard so many stories about how he's hot for one thing, then loses interest. Almost sounds like he's wanting to entertain himself as opposed to his audience. And he's supposed to be considered a genius? I think Vince still has a great mind for wrestling, I just think lately he's either afraid to take a chance on someone/a group or has forgotten how to effectively push a group without resorting to "good guy wins in the end!" tactics.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 1, 2012 18:58:43 GMT -5
These days, "jobber entrances" cannot be used accurately as a measurement of a person's status in the company, because 75% of the company get them. I mean, Wade Barrett got one on SmackDown this week, and he's on the fringe of the main event. I'd like to think so, but seeing a guy like Ryder creaming his pants on twitter because he actually got a televised entrance seems to tell me otherwise. Admittedly, Ryder is probably the only one who gets like that, because of his goofy dorkiness.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 19:08:34 GMT -5
WWE right now is basically 18th Century France.
There's a burgeoning "middle class" of talents who are showing up in this new era of less drugs and cleaner overall lifestyles but they and the lower-tier workers are basically being blocked from going anywhere by the clergy (untouchable, halo-around-their-head main eventers) and the nobles (WWE's almost comically vile bookers and writers). Anybody who's really ambitious about moving up is quickly neutralized or marginalized because they can upset the balance of power. And I mean guys like Ryder, in that sense. Is he a bona fide main eventer? Who cares, WWE pushes him down the card before his stock is even done climbing, so how are we supposed to know where he'll peak?
Booking is easy to blame but the general knowledge is "they're in charge, get over it" and that automatically legitimizes anything and everything that they do no matter how stupid. If the main eventers actually gave a shit about the other workers, they could easily stand up and demand that other guys be given a chance to do something. But they don't. They only care about themselves, and staying at the top of the totem pole at the expense of others. Like I said, just like the clergy in France during that timeframe, who had an angelic image because every now and then they'd so something alright (Punk shouts out to Cabana, Cena praises Ryder, and so forth) that would compensate for collaborating in a pretty awful regime.
I have other reasons why I don't like WWE or watch their programming anymore but that's the easiest answer. It's a bad establishment, and unfortunately, unlike France back then, the lower "class" can't just "rebel" or whatever. They can leave, but they'll just get replaced.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 20:00:01 GMT -5
I have other reasons why I don't like WWE or watch their programming anymore but that's the easiest answer. It's a bad establishment, and unfortunately, unlike France back then, the lower "class" can't just "rebel" or whatever. They can leave, but they'll just get replaced. So it's still just like 18th century politics in France post-revolution and Napoleonic dictatorship *puts down Jean Jacques Rousseau essay collection and heads to bed*
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Dec 1, 2012 20:04:15 GMT -5
Pretty much this. It seems like they almost freak out if something actually gets over, such as Nexus, so they proceed to cover their tracks by making them look ridiculous. I could go on and on, because they resolve about 80% of their storylines in extremely poor ways, or don't resolve them at all. I put the blame on Vince, since I've heard so many stories about how he's hot for one thing, then loses interest. Almost sounds like he's wanting to entertain himself as opposed to his audience. And he's supposed to be considered a genius? I think Vince still has a great mind for wrestling, I just think lately he's either afraid to take a chance on someone/a group or has forgotten how to effectively push a group without resorting to "good guy wins in the end!" tactics. that's not what he's resorting to. That's what he wants to sell. He's not like Coke panicking when New Coke sucked and going back to Coca Cola classic. He's Coke using all the other brands (Diet Coke, Sprite etc) to keep the business going while Coke sales are down until the public want Coke again. As for the way things are ending, I think it's pretty obvious Vince thinks any characters can be redeemed. But you can't always set up a story again. So when it's time for Cena's feud with Nexus to be over so he can build up to Miz and the Rock, it's time for the feud with Nexus to be OVER.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2012 20:07:24 GMT -5
I have other reasons why I don't like WWE or watch their programming anymore but that's the easiest answer. It's a bad establishment, and unfortunately, unlike France back then, the lower "class" can't just "rebel" or whatever. They can leave, but they'll just get replaced. So it's still just like 18th century politics in France post-revolution and Napoleonic dictatorship *puts down Jean Jacques Rousseau essay collection and heads to bed* It can be, but we're not there yet. On the other hand, maybe it's for the best, since I really don't want anyone on either side to be beheaded.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 2, 2012 16:28:31 GMT -5
WWE tries to create new stars, but their method of doing it is at the expense of everyone else. There are ways to put a guy over without making everyone look like scrubs, which is what they've done with Brodus, Tensai, Ryback, Sandow, and Cesaro.
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Post by Aaron E. Dangerously on Dec 2, 2012 18:42:00 GMT -5
WWE tries to create new stars, but their method of doing it is at the expense of everyone else. There are ways to put a guy over without making everyone look like scrubs, which is what they've done with Brodus, Tensai, Ryback, Sandow, and Cesaro. I'm surprised they've made Sandow look as good as he does. With that gimmick, he could so easily have been given a small build then jobbed the f*** out in a hurry as recently as 2 years ago. Too bad they don't know what else to do with Brodus beyond "Hey, he's fat and he dances and loses to US Title contenders!" The second the Funkydactyls (sp?) get dropped, I think it'll be a big warning sign for the big man. Also, lol at Tensai getting booked like Albert again. That dude is Big Daddy V 2.0 now. On a separate note, as happy as I am with all the great developments and the showcasing of young talent, all it takes is 15-30 minutes dedicated to Cena/AJ "scandal", Punk acting like a cowardly heel cool (which I still don't think makes sense for his character), and fans chanting "What?" or staying dead silent every time a heel opens his mouth for my heart to sink. So close, yet still so far. And it's gonna have to be an extraordinary program between the Rock and Punk if Rock's gonna win the title. On paper, I cannot get behind that. And I'll absolutely lose my mind if it's Cena/Rock at WM after this godforsaken Cena/AJ storyline.
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