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Post by sludgehammer on Dec 21, 2012 2:27:13 GMT -5
Ryback is his own thing and an actual characters with a good look that stands out from the crowd. He FEELS like a main even guy already. Ok let me lay this out:
Unique look (that weird face, head shape, tooth situation)
Finisher AND Signature moves that are over and have good names. Instantly recognizable. Meathook clothesline even has a charge up like the Sweet Chin Music
Great catchphrase that is easy to chant
Actually a good worker with decent mic work
Gets a pop and wrecks shit. I mark when Feed Me More comes over the loudspeakers cause someone is gonna get wrecked
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Post by Danimal on Dec 21, 2012 3:13:16 GMT -5
Taking away points for being muscular or big is lame. Very true, but a meh big man is still meh. They gave him the gimmick but IMO Ryback just is not Goldberg or Lesnar.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 7:07:03 GMT -5
I don't like the implication that my dislike of Ryback is based on some indy mentality or desire to reject the status quo or any of that. I just think he's a sub-par wrestler with sub-par mic skills and a terrible finisher. I don't see anything about him to like, and I don't enjoy having people explain away my opinions just because I prefer someone like CM Punk.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 21, 2012 7:53:47 GMT -5
I don't like the implication that my dislike of Ryback is based on some indy mentality or desire to reject the status quo or any of that. I just think he's a sub-par wrestler with sub-par mic skills and a terrible finisher. I don't see anything about him to like, and I don't enjoy having people explain away my opinions just because I prefer someone like CM Punk. And the people who DO like Ryback don't appreciate the implication that it's because they're idiots who'll swallow any crap that WWE shoves down their throats, and "too stupid" to respect "real talent".
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Post by The Tee Why on Dec 21, 2012 13:23:07 GMT -5
When Owen said that, Im sure he meant a muscley hoss I like Ryback tho
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Post by Miss_Carol on Dec 21, 2012 13:47:14 GMT -5
A change is a change. Doesn't matter if Ryback is similar to other wrestlers before him, Ryback as the future face of the WWE is a change no matter how you look at it. It may not be new and refreshing, but it is something different from what we currently have, so he's perfectly justified in saying it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 14:38:10 GMT -5
And the people who DO like Ryback don't appreciate the implication that it's because they're idiots who'll swallow any crap that WWE shoves down their throats, and "too stupid" to respect "real talent". And that happens far, far less than the whole "he's not Bryan or Ziggler so you hate him" comments. When people speak ill of Ryback, it's based on him, what they see has flaws in his game, why they don't like him. When people talk about Punk (and of course Bryan/Rollins/Ambrose/Ziggler always get thrown in too), it always comes back to saying how you smarks just like your indy wrestlers and talk down and tell 'us' why 'we' like this or that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 17:05:54 GMT -5
And the people who DO like Ryback don't appreciate the implication that it's because they're idiots who'll swallow any crap that WWE shoves down their throats, and "too stupid" to respect "real talent". And that happens far, far less than the whole "he's not Bryan or Ziggler so you hate him" comments. When people speak ill of Ryback, it's based on him, what they see has flaws in his game, why they don't like him. When people talk about Punk (and of course Bryan/Rollins/Ambrose/Ziggler always get thrown in too), it always comes back to saying how you smarks just like your indy wrestlers and talk down and tell 'us' why 'we' like this or that. I dunno, most of what I've seen is "Hurr durr, Vince haz teh hardonz for teh bigggg guz lolz". IMO, that's just sad.
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Post by Danimal on Dec 21, 2012 21:33:20 GMT -5
Just got done watching him, and still just don't see it.
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Post by flatsdomino on Dec 22, 2012 6:37:00 GMT -5
I've been quoting With Leather's Brandon Stroud a lot recently, but it's just because he's so damn right all the time. Here's his take on Ryback quoting Owen Hart in his weekly "Best and Worst of Raw" column: That, basically. Like I said right off the bat, I LIKE Ryback. He's killing it in his current role as a s***kicking destroyer of worlds right now. His superhero entrances are awesome because as soon as his music hits, you know it's over. That's awesome. I was more hyped about Ryback/Punk at HiaC than any PPV main event since Cena/Lesnar, just because the guy looked like such a well-booked monster in the buildup. But don't insult my intelligence and tell me that a musclebound hoss who Vince almost came in his pants while taking about a few weeks ago is "change" in the WWE. Cena did it, Ryback said it, and I get the feeling that it's something WWE's going to want to push at us. It was a pretentious, overly-self-satisfied thing to say, no matter who wrote it. Again, it's not an "INDY DARLINGS VS. MUSCLEZ" debate. I liked Goldberg, I liked Batista, I liked Steiner, etc. Hardly "indy darling" types. But there's no need to claim Ryback is something he isn't, and doesn't need to be, and then push that notion on us. That's how you make people sick of a guy and turn them against him. As far as what I said about "the future" in terms of Punk vs. Ryback, the person who said I meant it as "the evolved version of a pro wrestler" is correct. CM Punk is a next-level guy who's taken a lot of wrestling history and styles and put it into a package that could only exist right now. Ryback could have been doing the same thing in 2005, 1995, or 1985. It's nothing new, nor does it have to be, because it's a formula that works. But just let it be what it is instead of forcing it to be something it's not. Then again, as a whole, the WWE seems to take the approach of telling instead of showing; rather than just having something huge happen and letting it speak for itself, whenever anything goes down they've gotta have Michael Cole yelling about what a HUGE MOMENT it is to drill it into our heads - when in reality, if it was really that huge of a moment, he wouldn't have to say it, and just saying it doesn't actually mean it IS a huge moment. But storytelling through events and not through constantly telling us what's happening is an art that WWE seems to have left behind long ago.
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Post by Big L on Dec 22, 2012 8:26:25 GMT -5
I can't fault him for this. Owen Hart was a great wrestler and damn entertaining guy, and it always makes me happy when he is remembered for that and not just for being the guy that fell from the rafters. And Natalya appreciated it by thanking Ryback on twitter
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 22, 2012 9:22:36 GMT -5
And the people who DO like Ryback don't appreciate the implication that it's because they're idiots who'll swallow any crap that WWE shoves down their throats, and "too stupid" to respect "real talent". Point me to someone here who does that. I can wait.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2012 12:11:09 GMT -5
I still think it's something new. Like when was the last time we got a musclebound Incredible Hulk guy as the face of the company? Hogan was Captain America. HBK, Bret Hart, Stone Cold, The Rock were smaller guys. Cena is Superman. Batista even though he was big and jacked, he never really wrestled like a wrecking ball for the most part.
Hell Rybacks RVD's attire is unique and instantly noticeable. Sure you can say is he's copying RVD but that's the thing, only RVD has wrestled with that kind of attire or at least the only famous wrestler who wore it and he last left the company nearly six years ago. Also when was the last time a monster debuted as a face and all he did was destroy jobbers and is not a smiling face who high fives fans and cracks jokes? Goldberg nearly fifteen years ago?
Hell I think one moment that really stood out on Ryback was when that promo where they were deciding who faces Punk at HIAC, Cena took the mic and looked concerned about himself with his arm in the sling that Ryback may attack him saying I'm not sure if he cares about being the champion, I think he only cares about is kicking ass which is what the WWE Championship will give him the opportunity to do.
He's pretty much the only babyface built around the MMA mold which is popular at these times that he only cares about winning and doesn't care how flashy he looks which fans love because it's relatable and it's subconsciously making wrestling feel like a combat sport where athleticism and strength prevail.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 22, 2012 16:18:15 GMT -5
I still think it's something new. Like when was the last time we got a musclebound Incredible Hulk guy as the face of the company? Hogan was Captain America. HBK, Bret Hart, Stone Cold, The Rock were smaller guys. Cena is Superman. Batista even though he was big and jacked, he never really wrestled like a wrecking ball for the most part. Hell Rybacks RVD's attire is unique and instantly noticeable. Sure you can say is he's copying RVD but that's the thing, only RVD has wrestled with that kind of attire or at least the only famous wrestler who wore it and he last left the company nearly six years ago. Also when was the last time a monster debuted as a face and all he did was destroy jobbers and is not a smiling face who high fives fans and cracks jokes? Goldberg nearly fifteen years ago? Hell I think one moment that really stood out on Ryback was when that promo where they were deciding who faces Punk at HIAC, Cena took the mic and looked concerned about himself with his arm in the sling that Ryback may attack him saying I'm not sure if he cares about being the champion, I think he only cares about is kicking ass which is what the WWE Championship will give him the opportunity to do. He's pretty much the only babyface built around the MMA mold which is popular at these times that he only cares about winning and doesn't care how flashy he looks which fans love because it's relatable and it's subconsciously making wrestling feel like a combat sport where athleticism and strength prevail. I sometimes wonder, though, how much of it is the "one of us" factor. Someone's going to complain at me and say I can't give a solid definition of "us", and imply that using "us" means that I think we're all the same. But no, that's not what I'm getting at. But in general, there's a "them vs. us" mentality where fans DO compartmentalize guys into either "us" (Punk, Bryan, Ziggler, Cody), people who think like "us" and like what "we" would, and "them" (Cena, Goldberg, Lashley, etc.), guys who we think don't really care, and are just big jocks 'using' the business for one reason or another. Every now and then a guy who is obviously "them" is just plain good enough to overcome that (Brock), or becomes enough of a fan of the business (Angle), and some guys who have the mentality to be "us" (Ryback) just don't have the ring skill or the snarky net-generation attitude or interests outside the ring to impress. It becomes about who fans think they relate to. They feel like they relate to a Bryan, a Ziggler, a Rhodes. They don't relate to Goldberg, Cena, or Ryback.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 15:50:55 GMT -5
I still think it's something new. Like when was the last time we got a musclebound Incredible Hulk guy as the face of the company? Hogan was Captain America. HBK, Bret Hart, Stone Cold, The Rock were smaller guys. Cena is Superman. Batista even though he was big and jacked, he never really wrestled like a wrecking ball for the most part. Hell Rybacks RVD's attire is unique and instantly noticeable. Sure you can say is he's copying RVD but that's the thing, only RVD has wrestled with that kind of attire or at least the only famous wrestler who wore it and he last left the company nearly six years ago. Also when was the last time a monster debuted as a face and all he did was destroy jobbers and is not a smiling face who high fives fans and cracks jokes? Goldberg nearly fifteen years ago? Hell I think one moment that really stood out on Ryback was when that promo where they were deciding who faces Punk at HIAC, Cena took the mic and looked concerned about himself with his arm in the sling that Ryback may attack him saying I'm not sure if he cares about being the champion, I think he only cares about is kicking ass which is what the WWE Championship will give him the opportunity to do. He's pretty much the only babyface built around the MMA mold which is popular at these times that he only cares about winning and doesn't care how flashy he looks which fans love because it's relatable and it's subconsciously making wrestling feel like a combat sport where athleticism and strength prevail. I sometimes wonder, though, how much of it is the "one of us" factor. Someone's going to complain at me and say I can't give a solid definition of "us", and imply that using "us" means that I think we're all the same. But no, that's not what I'm getting at. But in general, there's a "them vs. us" mentality where fans DO compartmentalize guys into either "us" (Punk, Bryan, Ziggler, Cody), people who think like "us" and like what "we" would, and "them" (Cena, Goldberg, Lashley, etc.), guys who we think don't really care, and are just big jocks 'using' the business for one reason or another. Every now and then a guy who is obviously "them" is just plain good enough to overcome that (Brock), or becomes enough of a fan of the business (Angle), and some guys who have the mentality to be "us" (Ryback) just don't have the ring skill or the snarky net-generation attitude or interests outside the ring to impress. It becomes about who fans think they relate to. They feel like they relate to a Bryan, a Ziggler, a Rhodes. They don't relate to Goldberg, Cena, or Ryback. I feel like there's some truth to that, probably more subconciously than anything. There's also a stylistic preference though, I like that fast paced technical wrestling style, and I can get that from your Bryans/Rhodesesses. I'm not trying to claim that they're the ones that should be pushed over everyone from a business standpoint, this guys will draw money pure wrestling will save us all etc. Just from a personal perference, I'd rather watch them any day. You need both though. Ryback's presence is welcome in the main event scene right now, he definitely brings something different. On a small level, sure, he's brought some change. The Owen Hart comment (which is the OG topic I just realized) didn't bother me at all, it was just random as hell and kind of a forced roundabout way to say that you're something new. But the ass kicker hoss thing is good, and he's selling more now which immediately makes me enjoy him more. There was a point when I really disliked him, because he made people I enjoy watching and have been reasonably built up over the last year look like complete chumps. Pro wrestling appeals to so many different interests. That's why we all disagree so much, we all have different reasons for wanting to watch. Some are into the big-time spectacle, some like serious wrestling-focused stuff, some like the soap opera/raunch, high fliers, technical wrestlers, midgets giants hosses etc. I just wish people on all sides of a debate could respect each other more and not be so quick to diminish an opinion by lumping it in to a stereotype, and also try not to take it to heart so much wnen someone thinks a wrestler you like sucks, because it is bound to happen.
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