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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Jan 2, 2013 10:27:56 GMT -5
Maybe I'm getting my hopes up, but I'm hoping he turns at Mania - beats the tar out of the Rock, takes the title and makes himself the top heel of the company, with Ryback (or even a face-again Punk) as the guy to try and take him down.
Personally, it's the best thing that could come out of a rematch between them, since him "getting his win back" would do jack-all for anyone, and the only thing that'd be more useless would be him going 0-2.
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Big L
Grimlock
Posts: 13,883
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Post by Big L on Jan 2, 2013 11:41:46 GMT -5
I think the fabled John Cena heel turn will become the new "when is Sid returning?" You're probably right
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Post by hughgrection on Jan 2, 2013 12:11:46 GMT -5
I think the fabled John Cena heel turn will become the new "when is Sid returning?" You're probably right Well Sid did come back for one night. Make that two.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Jan 2, 2013 12:31:32 GMT -5
2) People stop asking for the heel turn. If Cena were to turn, chances are that the same people who boo Cena now will just cheer him when he goes heel, and that defeats the entire purpose of the heel turn. I don't think this would ever happen. The people booing John Cena mostly just don't want to see John Cena. They don't want to see him do something different, they want to not see him, for real.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Jan 2, 2013 12:49:19 GMT -5
2) People stop asking for the heel turn. If Cena were to turn, chances are that the same people who boo Cena now will just cheer him when he goes heel, and that defeats the entire purpose of the heel turn. I don't think this would ever happen. The people booing John Cena mostly just don't want to see John Cena. They don't want to see him do something different, they want to not see him, for real. If those people didn't care about John Cena, they wouldn't be responding to him at all. But Cena's gotten cheered by that very same audience whenever he's teased changing his character before. When he gave that vicious "Hoeski" promo to Eve, coming out to his "Dr. Thuganomics" theme and giving one of his raps during the Rock feud, teasing a heel turn the night after WrestleMania, etc. History suggests that if Cena ever changed his character in the right way (i.e. turning heel), they'd have no problem cheering him.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Jan 2, 2013 13:02:48 GMT -5
I don't think this would ever happen. The people booing John Cena mostly just don't want to see John Cena. They don't want to see him do something different, they want to not see him, for real. If those people didn't care about John Cena, they wouldn't be responding to him at all. But Cena's gotten cheered by that very same audience whenever he's teased changing his character before. When he gave that vicious "Hoeski" promo to Eve, coming out to his "Dr. Thuganomics" theme and giving one of his raps during the Rock feud, teasing a heel turn the night after WrestleMania, etc. None of those examples were anything like a heel turn. There are plenty of smarks that will boo Cena regardless of what he does. Just like there are plenty of smarks that will cheer guys like Punk and Bryan regardless of the characters they play. At least when Cena turns heel, they will be booing him for the right reasons.
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Post by Rocket N. Nine on Jan 2, 2013 13:09:01 GMT -5
When his merchandise sales slow down. So, about 2019.
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Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
Wait, what?
Posts: 4,785
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Post by Dat Dude on Jan 2, 2013 13:12:40 GMT -5
I've pretty much come to terms with the fact that it'll never happen. They've had perfect opportunities to go for it in the past, namely in 2010 when Randy Orton was on fire as a babyface, and last year when Punk was taking off. They just never go for it. Pretty much this.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Jan 2, 2013 13:23:15 GMT -5
None of those examples were anything like a heel turn. There are plenty of smarks that will boo Cena regardless of what he does. Just like there are plenty of smarks that will cheer guys like Punk and Bryan regardless of the characters they play. At least when Cena turns heel, they will be booing him for the right reasons. They were examples of him changing his character, which is why so many people want a heel turn in the first place. And the last one was Cena outright teasing a heel turn, which got "YES!" chants from a smark-filled audience. Obviously Cena will always have haters. Everyone does. But judging by the cheers Cena gets whenever he does anything outside the normal limits of his character, often from the same audience that booed him earlier, there are plenty of people who'll cheer him once he goes heel just because he won't be the same Cena.
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Post by Snaptastic on Jan 2, 2013 13:30:18 GMT -5
When Rock comes back to wrestle full time.
That should give you an idea.
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Marty McFry
Don Corleone
"She was mine before she was yours.... Wooooo"
Posts: 1,657
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Post by Marty McFry on Jan 2, 2013 13:34:42 GMT -5
When the kids no longer find him relevant.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 13:35:17 GMT -5
Cena will never turn heel. Much like Quack in Chikara, he's always gonna be the good guy no matter what.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Jan 2, 2013 13:35:20 GMT -5
None of those examples were anything like a heel turn. There are plenty of smarks that will boo Cena regardless of what he does. Just like there are plenty of smarks that will cheer guys like Punk and Bryan regardless of the characters they play. At least when Cena turns heel, they will be booing him for the right reasons. They were examples of him changing his character, which is why so many people want a heel turn in the first place. And the last one was Cena outright teasing a heel turn, which got "YES!" chants from a smark-filled audience. Obviously Cena will always have haters. Everyone does. But judging by the cheers Cena gets whenever he does anything outside the normal limits of his character, often from the same audience that booed him earlier, there are plenty of people who'll cheer him once he goes heel just because he won't be the same Cena. Getting Yes! chants in Miami doesn't mean anything. Everyone was getting them. Just because people want a heel turn, doesn't mean they'll cheer him when it happens. And all those times Cena did make a slight change in character, he was still always a face. Getting cheered is whats suppose to happen, and it supports the idea that a lot of people think his current character is stale. But a full on heel turn is more than just a slight change, so you can't use those as proper examples.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 14:38:31 GMT -5
When someone else catches fire as a babyface and has a solid run of at least 6-12 months to prove that they can take Cena's place as the top guy. And by catch fire I mean the whole package, not just getting a reaction. If it was that simple Randy Orton could be the face of the company. Crowd reaction. Live attendance draw. Ratings. PPV buys. Merchandise. If someone can be number one in these areas for a decent period of time then you're looking at a potential next top star. If someone has one of them covered he's not going to be the top guy. If someone has two of them covered they'll probably get a decent push but won't be the guy. If someone becomes number one in three or more of those areas then you're talking about a real candidate to replace Cena.
Austin was the number one money-maker in the company in 1997 when he was feuding with Owen Hart over the IC title and Austin 3:16 shirts were everywhere. Cena was the number one money-maker in the company in 2004 when he was the US champ on Smackdown and becoming the merchandise machine he is today with his replica spinner belts and such. In both cases they were the top draws in the company well before they eventually got the real big push and officially became the man. WWE doesn't have a situation like that right now though where someone else is obviously waiting in the wings and clearly ready to step up to the top spot because Cena is still the guy making the most money outside of the two matches a year guys.
I don't think anyone will come around and be popular enough that they'd feel safe turning Cena within the next year or two. I think he'll probably stay babyface and pass the torch to the next babyface in 2-3 years (when he'll probably be ready to stop going full-time and start doing a special attraction Undertaker/Triple H/Brock Lesnar type schedule) in a Hogan-Warrior Wrestlemania 6 or Bret-Shawn Wrestlemania 12 type match.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Jan 2, 2013 15:00:53 GMT -5
Getting Yes! chants in Miami doesn't mean anything. Everyone was getting them. Just because people want a heel turn, doesn't mean they'll cheer him when it happens. And all those times Cena did make a slight change in character, he was still always a face. Getting cheered is whats suppose to happen, and it supports the idea that a lot of people think his current character is stale. But a full on heel turn is more than just a slight change, so you can't use those as proper examples. Except the chants only came after Cena teased turning, and in direct response to what he said. Those chants weren't random. Miami only chanted after being presented with something they liked (not everyone got them, by the way), not just for the sake of it. And if that's somehow not enough, then at least remember that after Cena said he wouldn't be turning, the chants gave way to booing. Those fans wanted the heel turn and were prepared to cheer for it. That's pretty representative of the "turn Cena heel" crowd in general. Every time he does something edgier/more heelish (humiliating Eve, playing a character most associated with his heel run... those weren't just slight changes, they were designed to play to the anti-Cena demographic). They want Cena to turn so that his stale character is freshened up, and they can start to like him again. That's why WWE isn't going to turn Cena, because then he'd just be giving people what they want, and that goes against the point of being a heel.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 2, 2013 15:43:03 GMT -5
This is where I fault the WWE. They've had numerous opportunities to build up new stars, build new feuds, and actually create an interesting product that could rival Cena in terms of star power and drawing power. But they'd rather push said wrestler, change his character, change the booking, and in the process strip him of everything that made him unique.
One person said that if Jeff Hardy stayed we probably would've already had our Cena heel turn.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 16:06:23 GMT -5
I am gladdened by the #1 spot given to "He's already a heel" in the poll. Genius, sir.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jan 2, 2013 17:11:28 GMT -5
I don't think this would ever happen. The people booing John Cena mostly just don't want to see John Cena. They don't want to see him do something different, they want to not see him, for real. If those people didn't care about John Cena, they wouldn't be responding to him at all. But Cena's gotten cheered by that very same audience whenever he's teased changing his character before. When he gave that vicious "Hoeski" promo to Eve, coming out to his "Dr. Thuganomics" theme and giving one of his raps during the Rock feud, teasing a heel turn the night after WrestleMania, etc. History suggests that if Cena ever changed his character in the right way (i.e. turning heel), they'd have no problem cheering him. Wouldn't that suggest though that the easiest solution to Cena's woes is to just tweak his babyface character, removing the annoying traits half the audience sees as phony, thus making him more appealing overall to everyone? That way women and kids can still love him, and adult men might actually like and root for the guy, instead of being subjected to big babyface wins and triumphs they see as heel wins and triumphs? People like to say that it's the best of both worlds; that him being both loved and hated simultaneously is best for business. HOWEVER, that adult half is barely ever catered to. Once in a while they get thrown a bone when Punk beats him, or Rock beats him, but unlike other "heels" who get their comeuppance, Cena NEVER CHANGES. It's just rinse and repeat forever. He comes out smiling, and the adult males are like : "Just stop being this way already!" Cena's like a soap villain that gets killed once every year, then just pops right back up, as if nothing really happened. It's irritating to the side wanting a true heel arc of proper comeuppance.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 17:25:04 GMT -5
If Cena turns heel, he'll just continue to be the center of the universe. Thats an understatement. Its like the red button WWE won't push. If they ever push it, we'll get recaps and interviews from everyone from CM Punk to JTG about where they were when it happened, and how they felt. It's funny because it's true.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Jan 2, 2013 17:36:35 GMT -5
Wouldn't that suggest though that the easiest solution to Cena's woes is to just tweak his babyface character, removing the annoying traits half the audience sees as phony, thus making him more appealing overall to everyone? That way women and kids can still love him, and adult men might actually like and root for the guy, instead of being subjected to big babyface wins and triumphs they see as heel wins and triumphs? People like to say that it's the best of both worlds; that him being both loved and hated simultaneously is best for business. HOWEVER, that adult half is barely ever catered to. Once in a while they get thrown a bone when Punk beats him, or Rock beats him, but unlike other "heels" who get their comeuppance, Cena NEVER CHANGES. It's just rinse and repeat forever. He comes out smiling, and the adult males are like : "Just stop being this way already!" Cena's like a soap villain that gets killed once every year, then just pops right back up, as if nothing really happened. It's irritating to the side wanting a true heel arc of proper comeuppance. They could do that, easily, but that's all working under the assumption that WWE even wants Cena's character changed. They and Cena have both demonstrated that they know what the anti-Cena group wants. Cena's been able to get them to cheer by simply cutting edgier promos or teasing heel turns, so it's not like they're blind. For whatever reason, Cena must work for them as he is, or else they'd probably be doing something. If I had to take a guess as to why WWE plays to one side, it's for two reasons: (1) I think WWE sees the kids that cheer Cena as more important in the long-run. He sells most of the merchandise of anyone in WWE, and I'd imagine that the kids of today are more likely to remain fans in 10-15 years than the adults that boo Cena. So it's more important to WWE to cater to them than the opposite. And (2) by keeping Cena heel (to one half of the audience), it's like a HHH in '02-'05 situation. Cena gets kept strong so that the future top face (or heel) can dethrone him. He'll take the occasional losses to guys like CM Punk and The Rock, WWE will throw those fans a bone every once in a while, but in the end his "comeuppance" will only come after being beaten the right guy.
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