Divas Division in 2013: A Sign of Hope?

[Dat Dude]

2012 was a brutal year for the Divas Division with them losing a ton of talent. But with a recent changing of the guard from Eve to Kaitlyn as Top Diva (which was preceded by a storyline that lasted for months), I was kinda skeptical with Kaitlyn being fairly green if she was ready for the role. But then she had a match with Aksana on Smackdown. A fairly good match, when almost nobody prior was able to have a good match with her.

Then all of sudden Alicia Fox and Natalya not only appear on TV (a rarity in 2012), both are baby face, and are given enough time to tell a story in a match. And not surprising, they had a really good match. You also add-in the fact that they've been planting seeds for a feud between AJ and Kaitlyn (which will hopefully lead to the first one-on-one divas match at mania in years).

It's still pretty early but do you think this could be a sign of hope that things will be better for the division in 2013?

[Deleted]

Until the core fundamental booking of the division changes, it will always be bad. It doesn't matter if you have someone like Natalya in the ring or not, if the matches are only getting three minutes and there's no storyline involved, nobody is going to care.

[YiHammer]

A lot of their Dev Divas are good wrestlers (Paige for example) and not models.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2013 12:40:04 GMT -5 @burngun said:

Until the core fundamental booking of the division changes, it will always be bad. It doesn't matter if you have someone like Natalya in the ring or not, if the matches are only getting three minutes and there's no storyline involved, nobody is going to care.

I think it has changed slightly. Eve and Kaitlyn had a pretty decent angle over a period of time, and the ring work has been stepped up a notch ever since Layla came back. They still don't get enough time though, that's the biggest issue.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2013 12:47:01 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

Jan 21, 2013 12:40:04 GMT -5 @burngun said:

Until the core fundamental booking of the division changes, it will always be bad. It doesn't matter if you have someone like Natalya in the ring or not, if the matches are only getting three minutes and there's no storyline involved, nobody is going to care.

They still don't get enough time though, that's the biggest issue.

On a few recent shows, the Divas matches got more time than Big Show's match, Antonio Cesaro's match, or Wade Barrett's match on the same night. A couple weeks ago on Raw, the Divas match was only the 4th or 5th shortest match on the card.

[Deleted]

Vince doesn't have the patience to stick with it, so I foresee it being about the same as it always has been, somewhere between it's peak and it's nadir.

[Arrow]

Still don't care.

But just to try and contribute productively to the thread, what exactly do you mean by "hope"? The division might get a little bit more than just a minute or two and the storylines might be more fleshed out if Kaitlyn/Eve is anything to go by, (and, much like the growth of the midcard and tag division in 2012, I attribute that more to 3-hour Raws necessitating it than in WWE's actual interest), but it'll still ultimately just be a sideshow to everything else.

Sometimes I get the sense that people expect too much out of what WWE even wants to give the Divas.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2013 12:53:53 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

Jan 21, 2013 12:47:01 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

They still don't get enough time though, that's the biggest issue.

On a few recent shows, the Divas matches got more time than Big Show's match, Antonio Cesaro's match, or Wade Barrett's match on the same night. A couple weeks ago on Raw, the Divas match was only the 4th or 5th shortest match on the card.

Keyword here, "the" Divas match. Even if it gets 4 minutes, that's 4 minutes on a 3 hour show that pertains to an entire "division". And that's a good week! Cesaro, Barrett and Show have each had 15 minute TV matches recently. Not saying they shouldn't get that time, but that random fact doesn't mean anything.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2013 13:09:35 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

Jan 21, 2013 12:53:53 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

On a few recent shows, the Divas matches got more time than Big Show's match, Antonio Cesaro's match, or Wade Barrett's match on the same night. A couple weeks ago on Raw, the Divas match was only the 4th or 5th shortest match on the card.

Keyword here, "the" Divas match. Even if it gets 4 minutes, that's 4 minutes on a 3 hour show that pertains to an entire "division". And that's a good week! Cesaro, Barrett and Show have each had 15 minute TV matches recently. Not saying they shouldn't get that time, but that random fact doesn't mean anything.

Yes, it does. They've been having 3-5 minute matches on the main shows on a regular basis when several other matches don't get that, and they're not a given for having the shortest match of the night (or even the 2nd or 3rd shortest). The whole "the Divas get 1-2 minutes to wrestle" thing is now just false.

[________ has left the building]

Keep Hope Alive.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2013 13:19:01 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

Jan 21, 2013 13:09:35 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

Keyword here, "the" Divas match. Even if it gets 4 minutes, that's 4 minutes on a 3 hour show that pertains to an entire "division". And that's a good week! Cesaro, Barrett and Show have each had 15 minute TV matches recently. Not saying they shouldn't get that time, but that random fact doesn't mean anything.

Yes, it does. They've been having 3-5 minute matches on the main shows on a regular basis, and they're no longer a given for having the shortest match of the night (or even the 2nd or 3rd shortest). The whole "the Divas get 1-2 minutes to wrestle" thing is now just false.

Let's break this down. You're saying that they actually do get enough time. Because, sometimes, they get 3-5 minutes, for an entire division, which is longer than some arbitrary matches by upper midcarders that are featured heavily and have long matches often. They got 1-2 more minutes a week, again, for an entire division, and now, time is no longer a problem and the divas should just all...get over. This is what you're saying. Do you think you're correct?

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2013 13:32:08 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

Jan 21, 2013 13:19:01 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

Yes, it does. They've been having 3-5 minute matches on the main shows on a regular basis, and they're no longer a given for having the shortest match of the night (or even the 2nd or 3rd shortest). The whole "the Divas get 1-2 minutes to wrestle" thing is now just false.

Let's break this down. You're saying that they actually do get enough time. Because, sometimes, they get 3-5 minutes, for an entire division, which is longer than some arbitrary matches by upper midcarders that are featured heavily and have long matches often. They got 1-2 more minutes a week, again, for an entire division, and now, time is no longer a problem and the divas should just all...get over. This is what you're saying. Do you think you're correct?

You also have to factor in that the WWE has more programming now then they did 12-18 months ago. Raw is three hours, they have Main Event which is an hour, plus Saturday Morning Slam. So the divas getting an extra 60-90 seconds in the ring despite the extra 2+ hours a week of programming seems....lame.

[kidglov3s]

Jan 21, 2013 13:32:08 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

Jan 21, 2013 13:19:01 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

Yes, it does. They've been having 3-5 minute matches on the main shows on a regular basis, and they're no longer a given for having the shortest match of the night (or even the 2nd or 3rd shortest). The whole "the Divas get 1-2 minutes to wrestle" thing is now just false.

Let's break this down. You're saying that they actually do get enough time. Because, sometimes, they get 3-5 minutes, for an entire division, which is longer than some arbitrary matches by upper midcarders that are featured heavily and have long matches often. They got 1-2 more minutes a week, again, for an entire division, and now, time is no longer a problem and the divas should just all...get over. This is what you're saying. Do you think you're correct?

How much time do you think the Divas should get?

[Deleted]

Ring-wise it's going to be dominated by the very mediocre Kaitlyn and the only slightly better AJ. I really fail to see how this puts them in a better position than they were in 2-3 or even 4 years ago.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2013 13:35:14 GMT -5 kidglov3s said:

Jan 21, 2013 13:32:08 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

Let's break this down. You're saying that they actually do get enough time. Because, sometimes, they get 3-5 minutes, for an entire division, which is longer than some arbitrary matches by upper midcarders that are featured heavily and have long matches often. They got 1-2 more minutes a week, again, for an entire division, and now, time is no longer a problem and the divas should just all...get over. This is what you're saying. Do you think you're correct?

How much time do you think the Divas should get?

Even thinking of it in terms of how much time "the divas" should get, they're like second class citizens It should be how much time Kaitlyn does get, how much time should Natalya get, how much time should Tamina get, how much time should Layla get, etc. There's no focus on them as individuals, besides our friend AJ Lee anyway. It's just "okay filler time, send in the divas!"

Honestly I'd rather have no divas division at all than a division where they're considered a 5 minute w/ entrances piss break, or some people to throw out in the dead spot of a PPV so no one else has to do it. If you're going to have a division, do it right.

[kidglov3s]

Jan 21, 2013 13:48:20 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

Jan 21, 2013 13:35:14 GMT -5 kidglov3s said:

How much time do you think the Divas should get?

Even thinking of it in terms of how much time "the divas" should get, they're like second class citizens It should be how much time Kaitlyn does get, how much time should Natalya get, how much time should Tamina get, how much time should Layla get, etc. There's no focus on them as individuals, besides our friend AJ Lee anyway. It's just "okay filler time, send in the divas!"

Now, honestly now, legit, do you think WWE would achieve any kind of success beyond our women's wrestling crazy forum with such an approach? I mean success not in terms of pulling in the Shimmer audience but like maintaining or growing the audience they have now?

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2013 13:50:10 GMT -5 kidglov3s said:

Jan 21, 2013 13:48:20 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

Even thinking of it in terms of how much time "the divas" should get, they're like second class citizens It should be how much time Kaitlyn does get, how much time should Natalya get, how much time should Tamina get, how much time should Layla get, etc. There's no focus on them as individuals, besides our friend AJ Lee anyway. It's just "okay filler time, send in the divas!"

Now, honestly now, legit, do you think WWE would achieve any kind of success beyond our women's wrestling crazy forum with such an approach?

If you look on twitter there's hordes of young people who seemingly take the divas very seriously. But in the sense that they eat up whatever WWE puts on their plate.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2013 13:50:10 GMT -5 kidglov3s said:

Jan 21, 2013 13:48:20 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

Even thinking of it in terms of how much time "the divas" should get, they're like second class citizens It should be how much time Kaitlyn does get, how much time should Natalya get, how much time should Tamina get, how much time should Layla get, etc. There's no focus on them as individuals, besides our friend AJ Lee anyway. It's just "okay filler time, send in the divas!"

Now, honestly now, legit, do you think WWE would achieve any kind of success beyond our women's wrestling crazy forum with such an approach? I mean success not in terms of pulling in the Shimmer audience but like maintaining or growing the audience they have now?

I'm not saying push the divas they'll get ratings and make money. I don't know what makes money in wrestling, frankly none of us do. I'm saying if you're going to bother having a title, and 8 women that supposedly want to win it, treat it as more competitive and give the time and care to make it a non-black hole part of the show. Either that, or just get rid of it. They don't have the time or attention from creative to be anything more than filler right now, that is the main point.

[Indiana Miz]

In some ways, they've already started improving it. Just last year we went about 2 months without a divas match on Raw. And even before that, when there were over a dozen Divas, their matches would only be about a minute long. Now most Divas matches get at least 3 minutes. A lot of work still needs to be done, but I'd say they're headed in the right dirextion.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2013 13:32:08 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

Jan 21, 2013 13:19:01 GMT -5 @chrisc said:

Yes, it does. They've been having 3-5 minute matches on the main shows on a regular basis, and they're no longer a given for having the shortest match of the night (or even the 2nd or 3rd shortest). The whole "the Divas get 1-2 minutes to wrestle" thing is now just false.

Let's break this down. You're saying that they actually do get enough time. Because, sometimes, they get 3-5 minutes, for an entire division, which is longer than some arbitrary matches by upper midcarders that are featured heavily and have long matches often. They got 1-2 more minutes a week, again, for an entire division, and now, time is no longer a problem and the divas should just all...get over. This is what you're saying. Do you think you're correct?

I'm saying this....

The "Divas only get 1-2 minutes to wrestle" thing still comes up, even though they now regularly get 3-5 minutes to wrestlers.

There's regularly 3-5 matches on Raw that go under 3 minutes, yet it seems that's only considered unfair when it happens to the Divas. This despite that fact there's lowcarders on the roster who make it onto TV less regularly than Aksana does, let alone a top Diva.