Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
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Post by Juice on Mar 27, 2013 22:25:56 GMT -5
Punk as a face is a misuse use in my book. he is a natural heel and has his own personality. people refer to Sheamus as Cena lite, but go back and watch Face punk he is clearly cena lite.
Heel punk has been gold since day one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2013 22:34:22 GMT -5
Punk as a face is a misuse use in my book. he is a natural heel and has his own personality. people refer to Sheamus as Cena lite, but go back and watch Face punk he is clearly cena lite. Heel punk has been gold since day one. I don't know about since day one, but it's cool now, and he's better as a heel for what WWE wants out of it's heel/face dichotomy. It's just when they turned him, he was very popular and gaining popularity. He'd only been a face for about a year, no one was ready to boo him again yet. It seemed to derail him, and create a lot of awkward segments where it's painfully obvious that WWE is trying everything in it's power to get people to boo the guy. The "misuse" of Punk is more from a creative standpoint than his "spot". His whole character-arc/story has been bungled since Del Rio cashed in after Kevin Nash texted himself to stick the winner. I don't mean to speak for anyone but I feel some explaining is needed instead of just "yeah, f*** 'em!"
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Mar 27, 2013 22:42:17 GMT -5
Punk as a face is a misuse use in my book. he is a natural heel and has his own personality. people refer to Sheamus as Cena lite, but go back and watch Face punk he is clearly cena lite. Heel punk has been gold since day one. I don't know about since day one, but it's cool now, and he's better as a heel for what WWE wants out of it's heel/face dichotomy. It's just when they turned him, he was very popular and gaining popularity. He'd only been a face for about a year, no one was ready to boo him again yet. It seemed to derail him, and create a lot of awkward segments where it's painfully obvious that WWE is trying everything in it's power to get people to boo the guy. The "misuse" of Punk is more from a creative standpoint than his "spot". His whole character-arc/story has been bungled since Del Rio cashed in after Kevin Nash texted himself to stick the winner. I don't mean to speak for anyone but I feel some explaining is needed instead of just "yeah, f*** 'em!" and that for me was where he should have turned heel. That was a dumb angle that completely screwed up the flow. And then losing to HHH in the process and never getting revenge on Nash. Completely dumb. Had that angle somehow ended with Punk with Nash destroying HHH, going full on heel and carrying the belt as long as he did to finally drop it for me would have been very entertaining, but I digress. As soon as Punk became a face it went in a direction I was uncomfortable with. The brilliance of Punk as a heel is that he is a a dick and as cena lite baby face he couldn't sxpress himself the way does as a heel. The pipe bomb that made him a face he even disses the fans and such, but we all already know that. His long winded explanation about how he sold out to make money and never really cared was a cop out. People would not be complaining about any misuse had he been a dominate heel presence all along
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Mar 28, 2013 11:52:07 GMT -5
And I think that's where the complaining's coming from, the fact that while, yeah, Punk held onto the title for over a year, he never really got to main event enough PPVs, nor does he main event the biggest show of the year after all that. So it's kind of understandable that people complain, because it doesn't look fair to hold a title belt for that long and not be allowed to properly showcase your worth. But that's just it, he's gotten countless and countess opportunites to "showcase his worth". The fact he earned a chance to work with Taker at Wrestlemania cements that, so I don't see it being that much of a slight to his (HOF worthy) career if he never got to close a Mania out. Besides, having the last match on the card doesn't seem to be as big a deal as it was in the past- a lot of "show-selling" bouts like Flair/HBK, Rock/Hogan, Taker/HBK 1, and Cena/Batista didn't end their respective WMs either.
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King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
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Post by King Ghidorah on Mar 28, 2013 11:59:33 GMT -5
He's about to fight one of the greatest legends in wrestling and he's being misused, the entitlement is suffocating.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,529
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Mar 28, 2013 12:03:50 GMT -5
There are MANY guys who would sell their soul to have Punk's list of accomplishments in the WWE
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 12:44:34 GMT -5
I think it's the most important match.
It doesn't seem like it now, it will be once mania actually starts though.
They better be careful where they put this match on the card.
Probably should go as the second match or something. Far away from HHH/Lesnar (around the 5th match), and Rock/Cena (last match).
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Post by "American Cream" Dusty Loads on Mar 28, 2013 12:46:55 GMT -5
I don't think many people are saying he's being misused, just that they're totally uninterested in seeing Punk vs Taker.
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 28, 2013 12:47:44 GMT -5
He's been misused since he lost to HHH. A promising character was cut short. Yes he had a long title reign but the character he played during it was far less interesting, just as he is now.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Mar 28, 2013 12:54:32 GMT -5
He's been misused since he lost to HHH. A promising character was cut short. Yes he had a long title reign but the character he played during it was far less interesting, just as he is now. This is exactly it. The guy had a rocket strapped to his ass after Money in the Bank, and for some reason, they felt the need to snatch it away from him. He got beaten by Triple H, then took the pin in their tag match against Miz and Truth, then took the pin at Hell in a Cell in the WWE Title match. Three straight PPV losses in a row for their hottest character at the time. That's misuse. They do this stuff and they're robbing themselves of money.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Mar 28, 2013 13:10:15 GMT -5
This is exactly it. The guy had a rocket strapped to his ass after Money in the Bank, and for some reason, they felt the need to snatch it away from him. He got beaten by Triple H, then took the pin in their tag match against Miz and Truth, then took the pin at Hell in a Cell in the WWE Title match. Three straight PPV losses in a row for their hottest character at the time. That's misuse. They do this stuff and they're robbing themselves of money. Those losses struck me more as WWE's attempt to build up empathy for him and push the idea he really was "being screwed", especially since none of those losses were clean. I can see why they'd opt to try that with face Punk instead of immediantly giving him a Cena-esque God Push (which he got anyway after Survivor Series). It just feels like the crux of some fans' issue is "he's not the face of WWE", which I don't think he needs to be in order for WWE to realize his potential.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Mar 28, 2013 13:17:56 GMT -5
there's two equal sides of this issue that both make a lolt of sense a) Punk's had the title for over a year, who is he to complain about being pushed doewn the card at mania, he's still at the top of the company
b) Punk's been a workhorse and made a name for himself over the course of his reign. Why isn't he featured in the main event at wrestlemania instead of playing third fiddle to part-timers.
Its hard to say who's right. On one hand you can feel like, "Hey Punk, Ryder and Hawkins would kill to be in your spot," while the other one says "Punk deserves a mania main event and a chance to be THAT guy"
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ilggant
Unicron
Run...
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Post by ilggant on Mar 28, 2013 13:26:28 GMT -5
I'm a punk mark, and i'll be the first to admit wwe's used him very, very well. much better than i ever expected the day i heard he signed
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Mar 28, 2013 13:26:51 GMT -5
there's two equal sides of this issue that both make a lolt of sense a) Punk's had the title for over a year, who is he to complain about being pushed doewn the card at mania, he's still at the top of the company b) Punk's been a workhorse and made a name for himself over the course of his reign. Why isn't he featured in the main event at wrestlemania instead of playing third fiddle to part-timers. Its hard to say who's right. On one hand you can feel like, "Hey Punk, Ryder and Hawkins would kill to be in your spot," while the other one says "Punk deserves a mania main event and a chance to be THAT guy" I don't think he's even been pushed down. They don't seem to be pushing Rock/Cena with the same end all be all oomph they did last year, Punk/Taker and Lesnar/HHH are more or less its equals now.
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 28, 2013 13:27:37 GMT -5
During the voice of the voiceless character, he was being built up as the anti-establishment character. Cena was the establishment guy. It would have been appropriate for WWE to turn Cena at that point and have him openly embrace being a corporate mascot and actively encouraging his kid fans to buy his crap. That would have given Punk a perfect foil to play off (and would eventually have given Cena a redemption storyline where he says something like "I lost sight of who I was, and now it's time to rediscover Hustle Loyalty and Respect", or some bolllocks like that). But it didn't happen because WWE aren't willing to alter the Cena formula. Then Punk awkwardly lurched into the HHH feud, where once again, instead of Punk being the anti-establishment guy that fans could support, HHH was portayed as the hard done corporate guy being manipulated by darker unseen forces. Then Punk ended up supporting HHH during the walkout (which itself was a ridiculous storyline) and another opportunity was lost. His storyline with DB and AJ also had potential for growth in his character but that seemed to just fizzle out too. Then his forced heel turn occured and his character has declined greatly since then. I think he's definitely been misused.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 13:28:13 GMT -5
The people who complain about their favourite Superstars regular being "held back" irritate me just as much.
People don't seem to realize that everyone on the card has a role and that some talents place is to be lower down the card.
If this site existed in the early 90s would it have been full of people complaining that the Brooklyn Brawler and The Red Rooster were being "held back" and haven't been given a fair chance???
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,529
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Mar 28, 2013 13:51:08 GMT -5
This is exactly it. The guy had a rocket strapped to his ass after Money in the Bank, and for some reason, they felt the need to snatch it away from him. He got beaten by Triple H, then took the pin in their tag match against Miz and Truth, then took the pin at Hell in a Cell in the WWE Title match. Three straight PPV losses in a row for their hottest character at the time. That's misuse. They do this stuff and they're robbing themselves of money. Those losses struck me more as WWE's attempt to build up empathy for him and push the idea he really was "being screwed", especially since none of those losses were clean. I can see why they'd opt to try that with face Punk instead of immediantly giving him a Cena-esque God Push (which he got anyway after Survivor Series). It just feels like the crux of some fans' issue is "he's not the face of WWE", which I don't think he needs to be in order for WWE to realize his potential. Spot on.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Mar 28, 2013 13:56:34 GMT -5
The people who complain about their favourite Superstars regular being "held back" irritate me just as much. People don't seem to realize that everyone on the card has a role and that some talents place is to be lower down the card. If this site existed in the early 90s would it have been full of people complaining that the Brooklyn Brawler and The Red Rooster were being "held back" and haven't been given a fair chance??? While I agree with this sentiment in regards to CM Punk, there are people lower than him who ARE held back. While a lot of the current roster are in the roles best suited to them, a lot of them could stand to be booked better creatively. In the 90s, everyone on the card were allowed to attain some level of overness and were booked with some degree of notoriety and credibility, even the lowest jobbers. In the current era, not so much. Someone like The Brooklyn Brawler will probably be in the Hall of Fame one day and be remembered fondly for being a jobber for life. A JTG, Yoshi Tatsu, Zack Ryder, Alex Riley or a Curt Hawkins, should they remain employed by the WWE in their current spots for the remainder of their careers, will not be looked upon so favorably. During the voice of the voiceless character, he was being built up as the anti-establishment character. Cena was the establishment guy. It would have been appropriate for WWE to turn Cena at that point and have him openly embrace being a corporate mascot and actively encouraging his kid fans to buy his crap. That would have given Punk a perfect foil to play off (and would eventually have given Cena a redemption storyline where he says something like "I lost sight of who I was, and now it's time to rediscover Hustle Loyalty and Respect", or some bolllocks like that). But it didn't happen because WWE aren't willing to alter the Cena formula. Then Punk awkwardly lurched into the HHH feud, where once again, instead of Punk being the anti-establishment guy that fans could support, HHH was portayed as the hard done corporate guy being manipulated by darker unseen forces. Then Punk ended up supporting HHH during the walkout (which itself was a ridiculous storyline) and another opportunity was lost. His storyline with DB and AJ also had potential for growth in his character but that seemed to just fizzle out too. Then his forced heel turn occured and his character has declined greatly since then. I think he's definitely been misused. I think Punk should've STAYED a heel. Like let Punk be the Corporate Champion, with Vince and/or HHH claiming that the pipebomb "opened his eyes", and openly declaring their intentions to bury Cena for failing to live up to his expectations. Vince and Hunter back Punk and want to punish Cena for not bringing in the boom period or making wrestling cool again.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 28, 2013 14:38:26 GMT -5
I think the issue people have concerning Punk involves a larger issue people have with WWE itself.
Punk came across as the first guy in a very long time who seemed like he could absolutely take off and pull the company up with him, the same kind of figure that people look back on Austin as. Would Punk ever have reached Austin's levels? Probably not, but he certainly could've become something bigger than he is now.
I mean, yes, obviously he's been pushed pretty strongly: long-term title reign, matchup with the Undertaker at Wrestlemania, gets plenty of time on TV, I don't think anybody's denying that. I think a lot of people simply look at how the WWE STILL is using guys like Rock, Trips, etc. to push their big show now, and think "wow, they're not building up anyone today to that level where he could pop up just a few times a year a long time from now and get a huge response".
Punk seemed like the best chance for a guy from this "generation" to break out and reach that icon level, and maybe he still will, but it seems many felt they held back on going all the way with him (considering that during his entire title reign he almost never main evented a big card).
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Post by KobashiChop on Mar 28, 2013 14:44:26 GMT -5
His entire gimmick since July 2011 has been that the company hasnt given him the credit he truly deserves. As fans, we've taken that on board.
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