Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone.
Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,538
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Post by Bo Rida on Apr 4, 2013 10:17:21 GMT -5
Zeb and Jack are the 2013 equivalent of the Dynamic Dudes having a skateboarding gimmick but never skating or "Heavy Metal" Van Hammer carrying a guitar to the ring but never actually playing it. That's a great analogy. |
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Post by Dave the Dave on Apr 4, 2013 10:30:08 GMT -5
Zeb and Jack are the 2013 equivalent of the Dynamic Dudes having a skateboarding gimmick but never skating or "Heavy Metal" Van Hammer carrying a guitar to the ring but never actually playing it. That's a great analogy. It better be because someone has been making it in all kinds of threads. |
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319 
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Post by mrjl on Apr 4, 2013 20:19:23 GMT -5
how so? They've seriously injured a hispanic person.
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Apr 4, 2013 20:41:19 GMT -5
Konnan's reasoning is the best reasoning I heard. They don't know how to write for a hispanic audience. Incredibly over hispanic wrestlers got over on their own merits and did their own thing, without specifically looking for a hispanic audience, like Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero. I disagree with this so much. The argument that the writers are the reason del Rio doesn't connect with the fans is absurd. These are the same "white" writers who wrote for Eddie and Rey. It's Del Rios inability to connect with the crowd, not the writers. Konan is just always trying to play the race card, and thinks he is a lot smarter than he really is. Further proof is that Ricardo the ring announcer is way more popular and gets way more reactions. Even Ricardo has gotten passed the writers hump of just being a cartoon character ring announcer and he seems to be universally loved. The angle isn't extreme enough, but I have been glad to see Swagger finally getting another good push. When he had the swagger soaring Eagle he was great. When he was on ECW he was great. I really thought, based on that alone that he was the next big thing in the company. Zeb is golden on the mic and Swagger is good at the menacing role. I like it as it is throwback to when managers would cut the promo and their monsters sat back making noise and waiting for the last word. But the subject matter is off. They don't like immigration, join the club there seems to be a huge group of people bitching constantly about it. every guy in every bar I have ever been to fits the bill of these characters and thus Swagger comes of as way more relatable to a large scale of people. The wrestlers involved are great in the ring and if this match is given enough time it will be excellent, even if everything else has kind of fizzled down. |
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Dukect
Don Corleone
A person who tries to make sense of the senseless
Posts: 1,568
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Post by Dukect on Apr 4, 2013 20:49:29 GMT -5
I still think that Cody should be in this match than Swagger the man is honestly belongs in the main event rather than in a pointless match in a pointless feud.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Apr 4, 2013 20:55:51 GMT -5
Konnan's reasoning is the best reasoning I heard. They don't know how to write for a hispanic audience. Incredibly over hispanic wrestlers got over on their own merits and did their own thing, without specifically looking for a hispanic audience, like Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero. I disagree with this so much. The argument that the writers are the reason del Rio doesn't connect with the fans is absurd. These are the same "white" writers who wrote for Eddie and Rey. It's Del Rios inability to connect with the crowd, not the writers. Konan is just always trying to play the race card, and thinks he is a lot smarter than he really is. Further proof is that Ricardo the ring announcer is way more popular and gets way more reactions. Even Ricardo has gotten passed the writers hump of just being a cartoon character ring announcer and he seems to be universally loved. The angle isn't extreme enough, but I have been glad to see Swagger finally getting another good push. When he had the swagger soaring Eagle he was great. When he was on ECW he was great. I really thought, based on that alone that he was the next big thing in the company. Zeb is golden on the mic and Swagger is good at the menacing role. I like it as it is throwback to when managers would cut the promo and their monsters sat back making noise and waiting for the last word. But the subject matter is off. They don't like immigration, join the club there seems to be a huge group of people bitching constantly about it. every guy in every bar I have ever been to fits the bill of these characters and thus Swagger comes of as way more relatable to a large scale of people. The wrestlers involved are great in the ring and if this match is given enough time it will be excellent, even if everything else has kind of fizzled down. I would definitely disagree about Eddie, I think Eddie did a lot of his own heavy lifting. Eddie didn't do as much chessy pandering as this, at least I don't believe so anyway. Eddie and Rey also had the deal where the fans pushed them instead of the office, and instead of going out of their way to find a "hispanic star" like they were doing with Del Rio, they just simply had them get themselves over. After Eddie died, they were looking for the next star, according to Court Bauer who I do believe was there at the time. Hell, they even signed Primo in attempts to find the next guy. In regards to a hispanic wrestler writing for someone who is hispanic, Konnan's logic is they may not have the same background and grew up the same way as some of the other writers did and maybe able to help create situations based on their own life experiences. In regards to Ricardo, he got a great reaction due to sympathy. He has great sympathy, but unlike people like Kelly Kelly and Maria, he has a lot of talent and is able to get over based on that. No one feels sympathy towards Del Rio, which is one of the millions of reasons. It's sad. The Wrestlemania match really should be Ricardo Rodriquez vs Zeb Colter. |
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 16,502
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Post by Mac on Apr 4, 2013 20:57:33 GMT -5
Some people have the "it" factor, others don't. Nobody has ever cared about Del Rio, he's never been over, he's never approached being over and WWE has done irrepricable damage to TWO world championships by having him hold them. Del Rio doesn't put a single but in the seats, or generate a single PPV buy. He looks tired, is woefully lame on the mic and nobody cares about him, face or heel.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Apr 4, 2013 21:06:20 GMT -5
there seems to be some talk that since there are a fair amount of people that agree with Zeb this has become somehow not controversial. I don't feel that's the case at all
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Apr 4, 2013 21:20:58 GMT -5
WWE didn't go wrong anywhere, except for maybe expect too much out of Swagger, which could be the same as guys like Del Rio or Miz. Guys who might (keyword: might) have one thing that would help him at but not other things. These are guys that WWE is high on, but the rest of the world find dull, especially Swagger. None of which are very over, at least compared to other guys they have who garner a much bigger response.
Swagger was never a top guy, at least unless you're referring to him in ECW, where he was a modestly sized fish in a little pond, and even then there were plenty of guys who overshadowed him.
The more serious they make him, the more funny it becomes. So, it's not the lack of trying, it's essentially because the dude is just not special in any way.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 21:21:34 GMT -5
quote author=" mrjl" source="/post/9572520/thread" timestamp="1365127580"]there seems to be some talk that since there are a fair amount of people that agree with Zeb this has become somehow not controversial. I don't feel that's the case at all[/quote] They screwed up by not making him over-the-top crazy. He's supposed to be a jingoist and a racist. Instead, they make him a guy who's worried that Americans aren't getting enough jobs. In the middle of one of our worst economic slumps! |
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Post by Andy Martin on Apr 4, 2013 21:38:55 GMT -5
Swagger's ship sailed in 2010 Swagger's ship sailed pretty much when he got there in my opinion. Dutch is what got me interested in the angle, not anything Swagger did or could have done. |
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,723 
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Post by nisidhe on Apr 4, 2013 23:23:07 GMT -5
R-Truth's coming out in a Confederate uniform got more of a gasp out of me than this angle has so far. When I see Zeb and Swagger, I want to shuffle nervously in my seat as they build their platform. I want them to go after Glenn Beck for not being conservative enough - heck, I want them to tell Ann Coulter to get back into the kitchen.
The thing is, though, that that kind of neo-conservatism as a cultural force dropped from public discourse in November. Without stepping into politics too deeply, the Swagger & Zeb Show would have been perfect a year ago when strong views on both sides were worn on many people's sleeves, and large groups of like-minded folks were gathering on a more or less regular basis. We know that WWE won't touch certain controversies now, and that's why the angle's petering out so quickly - you can only argue a point on immigration for so long. If WWE were to let Dutch "have his head", so to speak, and just go off on some overarching rant about everything being so much better in the past than now, they'd have some serious momentum: have Zeb rant about all of it and let the feuds form more organically.
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Post by generationxero on Apr 4, 2013 23:37:14 GMT -5
The PG Era happened. SO MUCH could be done with this angle, but the wwe babysits now, so they don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings. Pathetic.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,789
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Post by hassanchop on Apr 4, 2013 23:37:54 GMT -5
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Post by The Deadly Snake on Apr 5, 2013 0:24:27 GMT -5
It sailed long ago, because Jack Swagger isn't a very effective performer. He has the athletic tools to give a good match, but there's a lot more to that in wrestling and Swag isn't really good at any of it. The thing is, Swagger would be a great prospect in a traditional promotion, or even a japapense-style promotion, but he lacks the tools to work the WWE style. |
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Apr 5, 2013 1:42:56 GMT -5
A number of reasons
1 - Zeb and Swagger need to be more extreme in their views. At the moment, Zeb comes across as a vaguely bigoted guy who does make some good arguments. Instead of merely being against illegal immigration with a few hints as xenophobia; he should be an outright bigot who hates anybody and everybody different than him. Have him cut promos opposing gay marriage, liberals, blacks, Asians, Hispanics. Have him as just an outright, hatefilled nasty piece of work.
Saying that, I can understand why they kept him toned down because there are so many people out there who get offended... or at least love to act like they're offended by stuff such as this. Really though, WWE should tell those types to F-Off.
2 - ADR just sucks. As soon as his music hits I have a reflex action that causes me to hit fast-forward.
3 - Ricardo didn't get tossed over the border. Honestly, I expected a segment where Zeb and Swag abduct Ricardo after finding he's an illegal and toss him over the border and I'm quite sad it didn't happen.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Apr 5, 2013 1:48:53 GMT -5
3 - Ricardo didn't get tossed over the border. Honestly, I expected a segment where Zeb and Swag abduct Ricardo after finding he's an illegal and toss him over the border and I'm quite sad it didn't happen. I think trying to toss Ricardo (an obvious American who speaks perfect English with minimal traces of any foreign or regional accent) over the border sounds like something that would cross the line (no pun intended) too far into comedy angle territory. It's one thing for Del Rio & Ricardo to satirize Zeb and Swagger's promos, but if Zeb and Swag do that, it seems like it would turn the angle into a complete joke. |
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Post by wallabylikeyou on Apr 5, 2013 3:42:37 GMT -5
It really doesn't help that Del Rio himself was doing promos where he asked to see people in the audience's green cards as recently as the Sheamus feud.
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Sam Punk
Hank Scorpio
Own Nothing, Be Happy
Posts: 6,304
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Post by Sam Punk on Apr 5, 2013 9:04:29 GMT -5
Without stepping into politics too deeply, the Swagger & Zeb Show would have been perfect a year ago when strong views on both sides were worn on many people's sleeves, and large groups of like-minded folks were gathering on a more or less regular basis. Well Linda hadn't lost her election bid yet. |
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Post by bestthateverdidit on Apr 5, 2013 12:39:39 GMT -5
They should have started him off in a feud with Kofi Kingston, saying that people like him should not be in America, etc. I am guessing quite a lot of fans would get behind that. Whereas, I am equally sure quite a lot of fans agree with Zeb about Del Rio.
Wrestling has to be an extreme version of reality in order to get over. They actually are doing a fairly moderate conservative character which is probably in tune with a lot of people's views, and it has failed.
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