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Post by ________ has left the building on Apr 5, 2013 11:56:02 GMT -5
The past few weeks have been eventful for heels. Bully Ray in TNA ran into problems unleashing a triade using homophobic slurs on a guy in the crowd. The CM Punk/Undertaker feud has been using Paul Bearer's imagery to push the feud with Punk disrespecting Bearer to play mind games with Taker. Punk pouring ashes on Taker Monday created a firestorm online with people being appalled or chalking it as a heel being a heel.Jericho got suspended for kicking a Brazilian flag. JBL almost caused an international incident for goose stepping in Germany. HHH used race to build his feud with Booker. My question is how far can a heel go being it can no longer be written off as being a heel? What is the line that can't be crossed?
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 5, 2013 12:06:40 GMT -5
Virtually nothing, as long as they get an appropriate comeuppance.
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Post by xCompackx on Apr 5, 2013 12:18:31 GMT -5
To be honest, I don't think there is a line. WWE has shown that they'll say/do anything to get an angle to work, and as long as the "___ would've loved it" excuse still works, it's not going to change.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,097 
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Apr 5, 2013 12:20:21 GMT -5
I honestly don't know if there is line for me. I always look at it as just being part of the show so I've never been offended (not even by really questionable stuff like "Eddie's in hell"). But I guess from a wrestling company's point of view it probably goes "too far" when it offends more people than it entertains.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,434 
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Post by FinalGwen on Apr 5, 2013 12:21:37 GMT -5
Things like racism and homophobia are issues too important to be played with for the sake of getting a reaction, particularly when you consider that people suffering from abuse/discrimination might actually want escapism in their entertainment, rather than being subjected to the same kind of insults through the screen as well.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Apr 5, 2013 12:22:06 GMT -5
My line is "Within the boundaries of fiction." Once it crosses over into real life, it starts feeling cheap. The fact pro wrestling acknowledges that the crowd exists makes it hard to define what the boundary of fiction actually is though.
...And in Jericho's case it was "violating a foreign country's federal law" which I think is a bit past like, every line ever.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 12:31:32 GMT -5
No holds barred IMO. Anything goes.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,293
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 5, 2013 12:40:11 GMT -5
Would this be too far:
At Wrestlemania CM Punk sneaks into catering and dumps the Urn Ashes into a big 5 gallon bowl of chocolate pudding and stirs it in. Heath Slater comes around the corner and takes the entire bowl with him to his table and eats it. Because who doesn't like to eat 5 gallons of pudding.
Later on that night Slater's voice begins to crack, they add darkening levels of eye shadow every time he appears on camera through the night. By the time Cm Punk and Undertaker wrestle, his hair is red and half jetblack with his skin all powdered snow white. Big black bags under his eyes and his voice is super screechy. he comes out in a morticians suit and helps Undertaker destroy Cm Punk.
Slater becomes the heir apparent to the Undertaker Legacy when the Undertaker dissolves into a puff of smoke in the middle of the ring, leaving behind only his trademark hat. Slater puts the hat on, his eyes roll back and he shoots lightning from his fingers into the sky!
Then Kane comes down to congratulate Slater for becoming one of the family. Slater turns to Kane and after shaking his hand, he suddenly bites Kane in the neck! Kane falls to his knees and passes out as Slater drinks the blood of the devil's favorite demon.
After taking all the powers from the entire Undertaker Legacy, Heath Slater tosses aside the Three Man Band and becomes the Dead Man Band. He wields a flaming guitar on his way to the ring and is in all ways totally awesome.
The End.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 5, 2013 12:45:09 GMT -5
Would this be too far: At Wrestlemania CM Punk sneaks into catering and dumps the Urn Ashes into a big 5 gallon bowl of chocolate pudding and stirs it in. Heath Slater comes around the corner and takes the entire bowl with him to his table and eats it. Because who doesn't like to eat 5 gallons of pudding. Later on that night Slater's voice begins to crack, they add darkening levels of eye shadow every time he appears on camera through the night. By the time Cm Punk and Undertaker wrestle, his hair is red and half jetblack with his skin all powdered snow white. Big black bags under his eyes and his voice is super screechy. he comes out in a morticians suit and helps Undertaker destroy Cm Punk. Slater becomes the heir apparent to the Undertaker Legacy when the Undertaker dissolves into a puff of smoke in the middle of the ring, leaving behind only his trademark hat. Slater puts the hat on, his eyes roll back and he shoots lightning from his fingers into the sky! Then Kane comes down to congratulate Slater for becoming one of the family. Slater turns to Kane and after shaking his hand, he suddenly bites Kane in the neck! Kane falls to his knees and passes out as Slater drinks the blood of the devil's favorite demon. After taking all the powers from the entire Undertaker Legacy, Heath Slater tosses aside the Three Man Band and becomes the Dead Man Band. He wields a flaming guitar on his way to the ring and is in all ways totally awesome. The End. This is so, so awful, I must see it. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 5, 2013 13:03:39 GMT -5
Would this be too far: At Wrestlemania CM Punk sneaks into catering and dumps the Urn Ashes into a big 5 gallon bowl of chocolate pudding and stirs it in. Heath Slater comes around the corner and takes the entire bowl with him to his table and eats it. Because who doesn't like to eat 5 gallons of pudding. Later on that night Slater's voice begins to crack, they add darkening levels of eye shadow every time he appears on camera through the night. By the time Cm Punk and Undertaker wrestle, his hair is red and half jetblack with his skin all powdered snow white. Big black bags under his eyes and his voice is super screechy. he comes out in a morticians suit and helps Undertaker destroy Cm Punk. Slater becomes the heir apparent to the Undertaker Legacy when the Undertaker dissolves into a puff of smoke in the middle of the ring, leaving behind only his trademark hat. Slater puts the hat on, his eyes roll back and he shoots lightning from his fingers into the sky! Then Kane comes down to congratulate Slater for becoming one of the family. Slater turns to Kane and after shaking his hand, he suddenly bites Kane in the neck! Kane falls to his knees and passes out as Slater drinks the blood of the devil's favorite demon. After taking all the powers from the entire Undertaker Legacy, Heath Slater tosses aside the Three Man Band and becomes the Dead Man Band. He wields a flaming guitar on his way to the ring and is in all ways totally awesome. The End. Dear WWE, Please give this man creative control of Raw. |
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Post by Straight Edge Scrotum on Apr 5, 2013 13:07:08 GMT -5
No holds barred IMO. Anything goes. |
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Post by Throwback on Apr 5, 2013 13:11:16 GMT -5
Stay away from Race, Sexual Orientation and Mental Disabilities then the rest is fine by me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 13:18:59 GMT -5
I find it weird how scrutinized the actions of heels on wrestling programs are yet the antagonists on any other television show/Movie/comicbook/videogame can do whatever they want and people accept it as part of the show.
You'd never see a forum post about "How far should the terrorists in a James Bond film be allowed to go?" or "How far should Freddy Krueger be allowed to go?" the whole point of entertainment is to evoke a reaction and usually for bad to be defeated by good eventually as comeuppance for the evil deeds.
As long as Taker gets his revenge on Sunday then nothing Punk has done could be considered too far.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Apr 5, 2013 13:27:57 GMT -5
Would this be too far: At Wrestlemania CM Punk sneaks into catering and dumps the Urn Ashes into a big 5 gallon bowl of chocolate pudding and stirs it in. Heath Slater comes around the corner and takes the entire bowl with him to his table and eats it. Because who doesn't like to eat 5 gallons of pudding. Later on that night Slater's voice begins to crack, they add darkening levels of eye shadow every time he appears on camera through the night. By the time Cm Punk and Undertaker wrestle, his hair is red and half jetblack with his skin all powdered snow white. Big black bags under his eyes and his voice is super screechy. he comes out in a morticians suit and helps Undertaker destroy Cm Punk. Slater becomes the heir apparent to the Undertaker Legacy when the Undertaker dissolves into a puff of smoke in the middle of the ring, leaving behind only his trademark hat. Slater puts the hat on, his eyes roll back and he shoots lightning from his fingers into the sky! Then Kane comes down to congratulate Slater for becoming one of the family. Slater turns to Kane and after shaking his hand, he suddenly bites Kane in the neck! Kane falls to his knees and passes out as Slater drinks the blood of the devil's favorite demon. After taking all the powers from the entire Undertaker Legacy, Heath Slater tosses aside the Three Man Band and becomes the Dead Man Band. He wields a flaming guitar on his way to the ring and is in all ways totally awesome. The End. That's so far past the line the line becomes a dot and is therefore exempt from criticism. This is beautiful and I hope it happens like forever.You'd never see a forum post about "How far should the terrorists in a James Bond film be allowed to go?" or "How far should Freddy Krueger be allowed to go?" the whole point of entertainment is to evoke a reaction and usually for bad to be defeated by good eventually as comeuppance for the evil deeds. Thing is, in those shows it's all played up like it's something a character is doing either because he's evil or to elicit reactions from other characters. We can suspend our disbelief more because even though despicable actions are meant to get a reaction out of us, the movie can make us believe that they are not. We don't think of Darth Vader being Luke's father as something meant to "get Darth Vader heat." We think of it in terms of his character and how it works in the fictional medium it created. Wrestling is so transparent at what it is trying to do that its storytelling stretches paper thin and there's barely a curtain to pull back to see what the narrative is trying to do. Each heel action is clearly and openly meant to annoy the audience. That's more open to discussion than a James Bond movie villain is because wrestling makes almost no pretense of a character having a motivation. It's all very clearly directed at the "WWE universe" even when characters are trying to annoy other characters. The WWE just isn't good at suspending our disbelief and getting us to care about those characters as characters. The most emotionally invested wins they had in 2011 for example were Money in the Bank for Punk and the Ryder Revolution at TLC. Much as I loved both, neither of those moments were actually about the characters, they were about the people and the behind-the-kayfabe implications in it. Sure you can argue they both had a narrative thinly veiled around the real people to give it some sort of cohesive sense to it, but that wasn't why everyone was so into those matches. I kind of hate the reality era because it's really just a way to excuse bad storytelling. |
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Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
Wait, what?
Posts: 4,785
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Post by Dat Dude on Apr 5, 2013 14:09:21 GMT -5
Would this be too far: At Wrestlemania CM Punk sneaks into catering and dumps the Urn Ashes into a big 5 gallon bowl of chocolate pudding and stirs it in. Heath Slater comes around the corner and takes the entire bowl with him to his table and eats it. Because who doesn't like to eat 5 gallons of pudding. Later on that night Slater's voice begins to crack, they add darkening levels of eye shadow every time he appears on camera through the night. By the time Cm Punk and Undertaker wrestle, his hair is red and half jetblack with his skin all powdered snow white. Big black bags under his eyes and his voice is super screechy. he comes out in a morticians suit and helps Undertaker destroy Cm Punk. Slater becomes the heir apparent to the Undertaker Legacy when the Undertaker dissolves into a puff of smoke in the middle of the ring, leaving behind only his trademark hat. Slater puts the hat on, his eyes roll back and he shoots lightning from his fingers into the sky! Then Kane comes down to congratulate Slater for becoming one of the family. Slater turns to Kane and after shaking his hand, he suddenly bites Kane in the neck! Kane falls to his knees and passes out as Slater drinks the blood of the devil's favorite demon. After taking all the powers from the entire Undertaker Legacy, Heath Slater tosses aside the Three Man Band and becomes the Dead Man Band. He wields a flaming guitar on his way to the ring and is in all ways totally awesome. The End. |
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Post by The Shareholder is nude on Apr 5, 2013 14:17:17 GMT -5
1. ANYTHING Anti-Semitic
2. Pedophilia
3. Animal abuse (puppies and kittens specifically).
Though to be honest I would LOVE to see a Nazi gimmick again. Nazi's are the best go to bad guys. I used to go see a local indy fed that had a skinhead Nazi wrestler who in real life was the nicest jewish kid you would ever want to meet.
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welshjobber
Trap-Jaw
How do you like me now?
Posts: 474
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Post by welshjobber on Apr 5, 2013 14:28:15 GMT -5
The only bad heat is no heat.
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Apr 5, 2013 14:39:48 GMT -5
I find it weird how scrutinized the actions of heels on wrestling programs are yet the antagonists on any other television show/Movie/comicbook/videogame can do whatever they want and people accept it as part of the show. I'm through reading the thread at this point. I usually just stay quiet and let the people who love to harp about every little thing go on about their business in threads like this, but I'll give this line some attention. I imagine people hitting the *pause* button on Grand Theft Auto while taking time to reply to threads like this about offensive material in wrestling. The quoted line above it nails it. If anything, I worry more about the saturation that wrestling has undergone. No wonder it all sucks so bad. It's like organizing a Major League season where there are limited home runs all of a sudden. |
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Post by cool guy on Apr 5, 2013 15:00:16 GMT -5
I mean I guess they shouldn't punch children.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 5, 2013 15:04:28 GMT -5
as long as the heel gets proper comeuppance in the end and it's never questioned as to whether or not he's wrong, I think its fine. it only becomes questionable if you get the wrong kind of heat. you just end up alienating the audience instead of making them want to see you beaten(the Katie Vick angle being the quintessential example). it's probably the same thing with using the recently deceased to further an angle. for a lot of people it comes off as either cheap or "too soon".
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