wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087 
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Post by wisdomwizard on Apr 12, 2013 8:23:59 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 9:03:11 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever seen a list that attempts to rank anime and Western animation together, so that's very interesting. You can tell the authors heavily lean toward mid/late '90s and early '00s shows, and it's hard to compare TV animation and theatrical shorts (I'm not familiar with the anime, but I can't say I'd rank Johnny Quest or Ed, Edd, & Eddy over MGM's entire body of work, especially including the Tex Avery shorts). I'm shocked to see a "top cartoons" list with shows like W.I.T.C.H., TMNT 2k3, and American Dragon Jake Long, but no Ren & Stimpy and nothing by Fleischer Studios and no Disney shorts. It's not a bad list though; they really did justify their picks well.
Slightly OT, but I wish more people knew about Twisted Tales of Felix the Cat. It's easily one of the best animated TV series I've ever seen, but I've never seen it mentioned on a "top ---" list. I think that has a lot to do with it having a short run, little publicity, and scarce current availability.
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Post by Red Impact on Apr 12, 2013 9:19:16 GMT -5
I don't think I would have ranked Ed, Edd and Eddy at all, much less as high as they did. Avatar: The Last Airbender would be much higher on my list. While I like mos of the shows on there, the lack of Samurai Jack is a real disservice to it.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 12, 2013 9:35:40 GMT -5
Lots of great shows on that list (especially #52, #31 and #24 which don't get enough love), but I think throwing theatrical shorts in these sort of things is cheating in a sense. It's the same reason I don't like how some people shoehorn compilation movies like The Bugs Bunny/Road Runner movie into "great animated features" list. As much as I like What's Opera Doc, it's hard for me to judge it in the same vein as stuff like Lion King and Spirited Away, because the objectives are way too different.
And the lack of Sonic SatAM is a big snub. I think it did a good deal to pioneer the "epic, atmospheric kids show" alongside Batman TAS.
But good list otherwise.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Apr 12, 2013 9:50:59 GMT -5
I don't think I would have ranked Ed, Edd and Eddy at all, much less as high as they did. Avatar: The Last Airbender would be much higher on my list. While I like mos of the shows on there, the lack of Samurai Jack is a real disservice to it. Samurai Jack and others that were cut are mentioned here: animationrevelation.com/readables/?p=202 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 10:03:34 GMT -5
And the lack of Sonic SatAM is a big snub. I think it did a good deal to pioneer the "epic, atmospheric kids show" alongside Batman TAS. That's a good point. I always forget how good that show was. |
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Post by Z-A Sandbaggin' Son of a b!%@h on Apr 12, 2013 10:08:06 GMT -5
Um... No Masters of the Universe, She-Ra or Ninja Tutles...
No Buys... unless I missed them. That automatically makes this list wrong.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Apr 12, 2013 10:15:02 GMT -5
Um... No Masters of the Universe, She-Ra or Ninja Tutles... No Buys... unless I missed them. That automatically makes this list wrong. Yeeeeeahhhh, they don't care for the prominent 80s series much.  |
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 12, 2013 11:00:06 GMT -5
As for their snubs, I think most of the awesomeness of early Spongebob really does outweigh a lot of the paint-by-numbers stuff that followed.
And Venture Bros. isn't just a circle jerk of inside references (though it's always a prominent source of the show's humor)- there's been some good character development over time. Ever since the clones got destroyed, Rusty's been a more attentive father (albeit an incompetent one), Hank and Dean have taken distinct paths, and Brock evolved from a one-joke Race Bannon parody into someone with actual emotions.
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Post by Red Impact on Apr 12, 2013 11:04:03 GMT -5
Their reasons for dismissing Teen Titans makes me take them a lot less seriously too. I could understand not including it on the list (although including American Dragon is baffling to me, since that show was awful), but I can't buy the notion that there's no character development or no good villains aside from Slade.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Apr 12, 2013 11:07:28 GMT -5
Here that...none of the Looney Tunes shots where mentioned.
I'm all for that being number 1.
Putting Home Movies so high makes me like them. A group of people that consider Ed, Edd and Eddy (which I like a lot) top 7 and think the Venture Brother's isn't even worth being on the list...eh.
Also..no Hey Arnold? Come on. I know these are my opinions, but I would think 8 out of 10 people would pick Hey Arnold over the Ed Show. I love that show but ranking as better than some of these is crazy.
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Post by horsemen4ever on Apr 12, 2013 11:55:13 GMT -5
Well good list, but I am not going to agree with everything, I could go about the rankings, Avatar: The Last Airbender should be higher on the list, but non the less, but yes Teen Titans should have been on the list, I liked it that it was different from the other DCA shows, they are great shows, a little variety is always nice.
I don't know if these shows make the list, but deserver for being great cartoons in my opinion. Sym Bonic Titan, in my opinion it is better than American Dragon: Jake Long, it did things they tried to do, but only match.
Was there any Hasbro shows on the list, I didn't see Transformers or GI Joe at all, no My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, but on the subject, one cartoon show often over looked, I think it was every bit as good as Transformers G1 AND GI Joe, but Jem and the Holograms, that was a very good especially for its time.
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Foggle
Mike the Goon
Mr. Pink
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Post by Foggle on Apr 12, 2013 11:56:09 GMT -5
Hey guys, I worked on this list. Kind of. I mean, I nominated some things and wrote some entries, but I'd be lying if I said I had much involvement outside of that. Don't want to steal my friends' thunder, as they were a lot more into it than I was! Anyway, something to keep in mind about this list is that it's already nearing two years old. I am very pleased to see people reading our work, but I honestly don't like this thing much anymore, as I take issue with a lot of it myself. I am happy to hear your criticisms and respond to any questions you might have about it. Your feedback will almost certainly be taken into account should I convince the rest of the staff to revisit this list some day. Just know that you're preaching to the choir on certain things. haha Slightly OT, but I wish more people knew about Twisted Tales of Felix the Cat. It's easily one of the best animated TV series I've ever seen, but I've never seen it mentioned on a "top ---" list. I think that has a lot to do with it having a short run, little publicity, and scarce current availability. Thanks for the recommendation, mate! I don't think I would have ranked Ed, Edd and Eddy at all, much less as high as they did. Avatar: The Last Airbender would be much higher on my list. While I like mos of the shows on there, the lack of Samurai Jack is a real disservice to it. I actually wanted Samurai Jack on the list, and it barely didn't make the cut. I mean barely. It was almost there! Lots of great shows on that list (especially #52, #31 and #24 which don't get enough love), but I think throwing theatrical shorts in these sort of things is cheating in a sense. Good point! The rest of it is basically just TV cartoons, anyway. I think SatAM would probably have been on the list had it been made today. Um... No Masters of the Universe, She-Ra or Ninja Tutles... No Buys... unless I missed them. That automatically makes this list wrong. Ninja Turtles is on the list! Well, not the original. Yeeeeeahhhh, they don't care for the prominent 80s series much. I wish that part hadn't been written so abrasively, but yeah, we don't really like the 80's shows that much. As for their snubs, I think most of the awesomeness of early Spongebob really does outweigh a lot of the paint-by-numbers stuff that followed. And Venture Bros. isn't just a circle jerk of inside references (though it's always a prominent source of the show's humor)- there's been some good character development over time. Ever since the clones got destroyed, Rusty's been a more attentive father (albeit an incompetent one), Hank and Dean have taken distinct paths, and Brock evolved from a one-joke Race Bannon parody into someone with actual emotions. Aye, those shows probably deserve a spot as well. I think at least Venture Bros. would be present in a revision. Their reasons for dismissing Teen Titans makes me take them a lot less seriously too. I could understand not including it on the list (although including American Dragon is baffling to me, since that show was awful), but I can't buy the notion that there's no character development or no good villains aside from Slade. I didn't write the Teen Titans thing, but upon revisiting it, I agree with you. Still not sure I'd put it on the list personally, but it's definitely better than we gave it credit for. I also hate AD btwA group of people that consider Ed, Edd and Eddy (which I like a lot) top 7 and think the Venture Brother's isn't even worth being on the list...eh.  |
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Post by Dave the Dave on Apr 12, 2013 12:12:24 GMT -5
Don't miss my other posts. I love that show too. I just don't see how in any way ; animation, character development (cited as why the Ventures wasn't on the list) or even just laughs)it's better.
It's all opinion. Hell I review things for this site, so I get someone not thinking my opinion is right. The backlash I got when I said I Love Lucy sucked was terrible.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 12:19:16 GMT -5
Hey guys, I worked on this list. Kind of. I mean, I nominated some things and wrote some entries, but I'd be lying if I said I had much involvement outside of that. Don't want to steal my friends' thunder, as they were a lot more into it than I was! Anyway, something to keep in mind about this list is that it's already nearing two years old. I am very pleased to see people reading our work, but I honestly don't like this thing much anymore, as I take issue with a lot of it myself. I am happy to hear your criticisms and respond to any questions you might have about it. Your feedback will almost certainly be taken into account should I convince the rest of the staff to revisit this list some day. Just know that you're preaching to the choir on certain things. haha Slightly OT, but I wish more people knew about Twisted Tales of Felix the Cat. It's easily one of the best animated TV series I've ever seen, but I've never seen it mentioned on a "top ---" list. I think that has a lot to do with it having a short run, little publicity, and scarce current availability. Thanks for the recommendation, mate! Starts to get great around 4:25. |
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Post by Hassan bin Sober on Apr 12, 2013 16:08:53 GMT -5
I for one a glad Ed,Edd, and Eddy was ranked so high. Best comedy cartoon of all time IMO. This list needs the Disney shorts, and Too Stupid Dog though.
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ERON
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,779
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Post by ERON on Apr 12, 2013 20:01:18 GMT -5
Kind of a sucky list, to be honest. The order seems completely random, it's way too heavy on cartoons from the last 10-15 years for what is supposed to be an "all-time" list, lumping all '80s cartoons together as "formulaic, poorly written and animated" is an unforgivable generalization, and - as has been pointed out already in this thread - the rationale behind some of the snubs (especially Teen Titans, Scooby-Doo, and Venture Bros.) makes little sense. As is typical of most lists of this sort, it purports to be an "all-time greatest" list, but is actually just a "stuff we like" list.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Apr 12, 2013 22:04:26 GMT -5
I remember seeing this list when it first came out. I appreciate parts of it, particularly avoiding loading it up with nostalgic favorites that have aged horribly and have striking flaws that you don't notice as a little kid but stick out like sore thumbs as you get older. Of course then they blow that to hell by including Johnny Quest in the top 10 when it really only has nostalgia going for it.
Two things I really didn't agree with -
1. The exclusion of Teen Titans. If you don't like it, you don't like it. That's fine, just say so. But to call one of the most innovative, fun, different and most successful cartoons of the last decade "objectively bad" like it was some kinda cross between "The Super Globetrotters" and "Garzey's Wing" is just offensive not only to the show but its fans.
2. The placement of the Simpson's so high. I see this on a lot of animation lists. "Yeah, Simpson's sucks now, but during their glory days they were awesome so we're gonna give them a pass". I'm sorry, but when a show has been on the air for 600 years and has sucked for more of that time then it's been decent, then it's used up any good will that it built up back in the day. I mean, I thought Enterprise's last season was amazing, but I'm not gonna rank it as one of the greatest sci-fi series of all time when it's first three seasons were as miserable as they were.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 12, 2013 22:39:32 GMT -5
While I'm not doing backflips over current Simpsons episodes, I think it's had very few episodes over its history I could label as truly "awful" (Boys of Bummer and Dude Where's My Ranch are two of the only ones that immediantly come to my mind). At worst, it's descended into "just ok" levels lately, whereas its first 11 or so seasons had some of the funniest and often heartfelt writing on TV in any era period, not just in animation.
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Post by lildude8218 on Apr 12, 2013 22:54:47 GMT -5
Lots of great shows on that list (especially #52, #31 and #24 which don't get enough love), but I think throwing theatrical shorts in these sort of things is cheating in a sense. It's the same reason I don't like how some people shoehorn compilation movies like The Bugs Bunny/Road Runner movie into "great animated features" list. As much as I like What's Opera Doc, it's hard for me to judge it in the same vein as stuff like Lion King and Spirited Away, because the objectives are way too different. And the lack of Sonic SatAM is a big snub. I think it did a good deal to pioneer the "epic, atmospheric kids show" alongside Batman TAS. But good list otherwise. I feel the same way about "Best Albums" lists that feature compilation albums. No shit they're good albums, they were designed to be the best of that artist. And the IGN list is much better |
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