Should the Indies boycott using legends?

[SOR]

Hey guys,

I think this is an interesting topic. Surely we've all been in the situation where we've attended an independent card and the main event has featured your local indy guy wrestling some 80's legend.

Isn't it a little sad? These guys are usually in their 50's or 60's and they're wrestling in a high school gym or a local recreation hall usually for a couple hundred bucks and merchandise money. I recently posted the Marty Jannetty allegedly stealing from a promoter story but there is tons of legends stories out there that are as sad as that.

So my question, should independent promotions boycott these guys? Not in a malicious manner but for their own good. If you think about other sports not many guys go past 40 and even if they do they usually play off the bench or something in their later years. At the point they hit 40 it's very rare that a team wants them.

If the Indies boycotted these guys then they would be forced to find jobs. They would have time to rest and recover and ultimately live a healthy life. The amount of guys running around with drug/alcohol habits that need to wrestle well past their expiration date just to feed a habit is really sad.

So should the indies boycott the legends for their own health? I think yes. I'm interested in what the board has to say though.

[Deleted]

I don't think a lot of promoters would do this. Its in a similar basket as a lot of indies holding "ECW reunion" shows as it draws more then classic indies. Having legends on a card draws more fans as they still have a name. Its sad that many legends are stealing money which is hurting not only hurting there image but the indy that booked them. But it sadly wont stop as promoters want money and some only care about that.

[Fiddleford H. McGucket]

No.

Maybe boycott them from ACTIVELY competing, but not from booking them in general. As you mentioned, this is their livelihood. 

Also as far as "Forcing them to find jobs", the hell? Not to really pry but are you serious? You somehow think it's right to "FORCE" (Your words) a 50-60 year old, likely disabled, possibly under-educated person to get a job, in this economy, when ABLE-BODIED people WITH ACTUAL DEGREES CANNOT?

And you want to claim it's for their HEALTH?

Also...what does Janetty stealing from the promoter have to do with anything? Because one KNOWN problem talent does something incredibly stupid, then we shouldn't book ANY of them? 

I really don't get your line of logic.

[Apricots And A Pear Tree]

With some promotions a Legend on the show is probably the difference between making a profit or not.

[chazraps]

Has the Marty Jannetty story been confirmed by anybody who isn't a known attempted child molester?

[SOR]

Apr 17, 2013 15:01:22 GMT -5 Fiddleford H. McGucket said:

No.

Maybe boycott them from ACTIVELY competing, but not from booking them in general. As you mentioned, this is their livelihood. 

Also as far as "Forcing them to find jobs", the hell? Not to really pry but are you serious? You somehow think it's right to "FORCE" (Your words) a 50-60 year old, likely disabled, possibly under-educated person to get a job, in this economy, when ABLE-BODIED people WITH ACTUAL DEGREES CANNOT?

And you want to claim it's for their HEALTH?

Also...what does Janetty stealing from the promoter have to do with anything? Because one KNOWN problem talent does something incredibly stupid, then we shouldn't book ANY of them? 

I really don't get your line of logic.

Sure, I'd be all for them still doing the Convention circuit no problem that isn't really a risk to their health at all. I'd be fine with them being authority figures on cards or announcers etc. The actual wrestling thing is what bothers me.

I'm serious about the jobs thing. It's not right to force them (That may have been the wrong word) but them finding jobs is definitely better then them continuing to wreck their bodies every weekend right? The economy may be bad but jobs are still available. These guys could find work if they really needed it.

Jannetty was something I brought up to show how desperate some of these dudes are. Would Marty of had to of stolen from vendors if he had a 9-5 back home? Probably not. But he allegedly had to steal to put food on the table that's when it's time to go and find some real work and realize the whole wrestling thing is over for you.

T love the Legends that's why I don't want to see any more of them die or be so crippled that they can barely walk. It's a sad sight to see when a lot of these guys come and perform and can barely walk let alone bump or run the ropes.

[bytor]

Alernate title for this thread: Should The Indies Boycott Making Money?

[SOR]

Apr 17, 2013 15:13:07 GMT -5 bytor said:

Alernate title for this thread: Should The Indies Boycott Making Money?

With the amount of talent running around the independents with name value these days an indy promoter can make money without running the risk of a serious injury on his/her card.

["Playboy" Don Douglas]

Apr 17, 2013 15:14:39 GMT -5 SOR said:

Apr 17, 2013 15:13:07 GMT -5 bytor said:

Alernate title for this thread: Should The Indies Boycott Making Money?

With the amount of talent running around the independents with name value these days an indy promoter can make money without running the risk of a serious injury on his/her card.

Not necessarily. I think in many cases, people overestimate how well known some of the indie names are to casual fans, which remains the largest part of the audience. A lot of those names, if you are outside of an area where they have regularly worked, are largely unknown. In those places, unless you are actively following the wrestling world online (again, a small part of the audience) you have no idea who those people are.

I can pretty well guarantee that I could run a show here featuring Colt Cabana and one featuring "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan, and the card with Duggan would draw better because even though he's past his prime or whatever, more people know who he is and would want to see him for nostalgia and a photo/autograph if nothing else.

[Brood Lone Wolf Funker]

So your against guys like Jushin Thunder Lyger, Toyota, Johnny Saint, and some of the lucha legends from making appearances on the indies? Most of these legends can still go and out perform the current roster, not all the talent running around indies is name value for every Colt Cabana you have average wrestler 6000. The legends are one of the main reasons an indie promoter can draw money and make a profit. Chikara basically gave X-Pac another shot at being important and he hasn't screwed up yet, than you have another hardcore legend like Jerry Lynn who was still running around making circles around a lot of the younger guys. If they can still go let them work and ive them a shot. It is their lively hood not everyone can land a nine to five job though

[thelonewolf527]

Apr 17, 2013 15:13:07 GMT -5 bytor said:

Alernate title for this thread: Should The Indies Boycott Making Money?

You stole my joke

[froggyfrog]

This is the dumbest thread I've seen here no offense. Promoters should use whoever can make them money.

Legend: "Hey I'd love to do a show with you guys."
Promoter: "Sorry, you're just too popular, we'd probably sell too many extra tickets."
Legend: " "

[Deleted]

Yeah, pretty ridiculous question. As already said, indy shows with former names from TV draw bigger crowds than indy shows with "indy names."

Someone like Honky Tonk Man makes more in one weekend at indy shows than he would working a "regular job" for an entire month. Indy promoters should "boycott" using him? Makes no sense. He has name value, people pay to see him, so he should make money being the Honky Tonk Man.

Marty Jannetty being a thief has nothing to do with the many other veteran wrestlers who make a good living on indies and aren't thieves.

[Sam Punk]

OMG Marty Janetty WTF thought he was dead lol

[Kash Flagg]

While I can see why nobody agreed with you (myself included), this has been a fun thread to read. So that's a good thing.

[Joe Neglia]

I think there should be *precautions* used when utilizing an aging legend (booking Gypsy Joe against New Jack? Don't f***ing do that.) but overall, no, I can't really agree with the OP. Honestly, most of them are in a safer environment, even at their age, doing something they know and know well (and know enough to know when to slow things down and not go overboard) than the 20-something indie guy who almost breaks his neck attempting a 982 degree moonsault to the floor.

[Andrew is Good]

Promoters just need to speak with each other and learn not to book certain people who have bad reputations, either from not doing business (Brutus Beefcake as mentioned on Review-a-Wai this week), guys who potentially steal from promoters. As others have mentioned, many guys who are former big names can either still go, or at least can still draw. If they're good for business and they're not a complete ridiculous carny, then no, they shouldn't. But some guys shouldn't be booked based on what could happen with them.

[bootytea]

That is a bit cold

Exploitation is what makes businesses go and it is up to people to decide whether they want to be a slave or a servant

That is the way I look at it

[Red Impact]

Guys in their late 40's with a multitude of chronic injuries aren't exactly hot prospects on the job market, especially this job market where they're competing with younger, healthier people. For a lot of the performers, they do it because it pays the bills.

[Rave]

Apr 17, 2013 20:25:48 GMT -5 Joe Neglia said:

I think there should be *precautions* used when utilizing an aging legend (booking Gypsy Joe against New Jack? Don't f***ing do that.) but overall, no, I can't really agree with the OP. Honestly, most of them are in a safer environment, even at their age, doing something they know and know well (and know enough to know when to slow things down and not go overboard) than the 20-something indie guy who almost breaks his neck attempting a 982 degree moonsault to the floor.

This. Also, I view legends as people that should be more of a special attraction than a regular feature, so while I wouldn't be against booking them as a whole (except for certain people who've already been pointed out), I'd be against doing something that leads to overbooking them. It really takes away from the whole thing regarding being able to watch someone you grew up watching wrestle in person if they're featured all the time. You get used to seeing them, and it's no longer special.