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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 18:55:03 GMT -5
Seriously, smarks act like babies sometimes. who's a crowd going to get themselves over with? The people watching at home? The wrestlers? Vince?
Thousands of people paid good money to be on TV for about 4 hours just to get noticed?
do the people putting forward this POV realize how illogical that is
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by kidglov3s on Apr 24, 2013 18:58:22 GMT -5
Funny this topic came up in a 1995 chat Vince did with AOL:
"Question: VINCE, DID YOU ENJOY THE CROWD AT WORCESTER FOR RAW LAST WEEK? VinceMcM: I enjoyed the crowd at Worcester immensely. I especially enjoyed the chants, that I heard, VinceMcM: loud and clear. Especially, "Kill the clown." VinceMcM: I always enjoy fan interaction at any level, but especially at a LIVE WWF event."
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Post by keepinitreal365 on Apr 24, 2013 19:05:27 GMT -5
What's funny to me is people getting upset because of what the crowd was doing during the jericho/ziggler match. It's like people are mad because the crowd POSSIBLY wasn't into the match the way you felt they should be. I mean why are you getting mad? Is Jericho and/or ziggler gonna give you a cookie.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 19:09:37 GMT -5
Honestly, as good as Jericho and Ziggler are, I could easily see why a match between the two of them would bore people. Some people just aren't into the same things as others, and their styles don't really mesh all that well. Not that matches between them are bad, but Jericho / Ziggler's a combination I can't see ever resulting in an all-time classic or anything. Jericho's at his best when he's with someone who's very crisp and technical, when Ziggler certainly has plenty of elements of that but mostly fights like a shrieking monkey when he's not posing, and Ziggler works best when he's fighting someone who can throw him around like a rag doll.
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Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Apr 24, 2013 19:11:13 GMT -5
Next thread coming "Crowds behaving correctly, OR, How I learned to stop worrying and cheer for Cena."
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Apr 24, 2013 19:16:20 GMT -5
Eff it. I'mma go super smark on this: Any crowd that isn't quite UNLESS there's a break following an intense exchange is a bad crowd.
After all, that's how they do it in Japan.
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Post by tigermaskxxxvii on Apr 24, 2013 19:19:04 GMT -5
Well the crowd has to get themselves over. It's not like creative is giving them a push!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 19:24:56 GMT -5
Well the crowd has to get themselves over. It's not like creative is giving them a push! They are going to be buried worse than Zack Ryder. There's no getting yourself over in WWE. Expect the crowd jobbing to piped in chants and blue/red lightning for months to come.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Apr 24, 2013 19:28:03 GMT -5
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Apr 24, 2013 19:28:24 GMT -5
My personal thoughts, the crowd on Monday was cool. Into the show, having fun and were more a part of the show than trying to be the show. Stuff like the Wave and the soccer chants are fine by me as that is what the UK shows always seem to have. It's just what they do (seems to happen at every event I see from overseas) and it's a fun element I wouldn't mind seeing others do.
My problem comes with the post Mania who seemed to try and BE the show after a bit. When they start chanting for murders, pretzel guys, people from other companies and then themselves it's no longer entertaining or fun to me as it seems they are actively trying to get people to pay attention to them which is not what I watch wrestling for.
It reminded me of the Impact Zone crowd back in 07-08 when the audience divided into groups and were chanting for and against the others when there was something they didn't care for. The product wasn't great but it was far from bad either, the crowd was just so damned annoying that it took away from the show.
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Post by celticjobber on Apr 24, 2013 19:32:59 GMT -5
What's funny to me is people getting upset because of what the crowd was doing during the jericho/ziggler match. It's like people are mad because the crowd POSSIBLY wasn't into the match the way you felt they should be. I mean why are you getting mad? Is Jericho and/or ziggler gonna give you a cookie. No, what annoyed me was that the chants from the crowd were distracting and took me out of the match.
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Post by keepinitreal365 on Apr 24, 2013 19:36:43 GMT -5
What's funny to me is people getting upset because of what the crowd was doing during the jericho/ziggler match. It's like people are mad because the crowd POSSIBLY wasn't into the match the way you felt they should be. I mean why are you getting mad? Is Jericho and/or ziggler gonna give you a cookie. No, what annoyed me was that the chants from the crowd were distracting and took me out of the match. The great Shane McMahon once said. You should be able to mute your t.v. And still be able to follow the story in the ring. If the crowds bother or distract people that much. Why not mute the t.v.?
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Apr 24, 2013 19:45:41 GMT -5
I don't understand how some people can't see that the crowds behavior can be annoying to some people. Imagine you're watching a TV show with a studio audience and they were laughing when there were no jokes, "oohing" and "ahhing" when there was no reason for it and laughing during serious scenes. It might by kinda funny one week (even though it would ruin that episode), but it would be the most annoying thing in the world after a couple of occurances. I know wrestling is different and is more like sports, but it's annoying there too. It instantly makes you stop thinking about the game and begin wondering what the crowd is reacting to.
And for those that say "Well what do you expect when the product is weak?". I expect you to NOT BUY A GODDAMN TICKET!!!
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Apr 24, 2013 19:49:36 GMT -5
And for those that say "Well what do you expect when the product is weak?". I expect you to NOT BUY A GODDAMN TICKET!!! I dunno about that. I say if you're willing to throw down fifty-plus to heckle me, go ahead. Still making a profit.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by kidglov3s on Apr 24, 2013 19:51:29 GMT -5
I don't understand how some people can't see that the crowds behavior can be annoying to some people. Imagine you're watching a TV show with a studio audience and they were laughing when there were no jokes, "oohing" and "ahhing" when there was no reason for it and laughing during serious scenes. It might by kinda funny one week (even though it would ruin that episode), but it would be the most annoying thing in the world after a couple of occurances. I know wrestling is different and is more like sports, but it's annoying there too. It instantly makes you stop thinking about the game and begin wondering what the crowd is reacting to. And for those that say "Well what do you expect when the product is weak?". I expect you to NOT BUY A GODDAMN TICKET!!! When I think of things that will help wrestling, people not buying tickets typically doesn't come to mind. If you want to show people how it's done maybe you should get them first? Maybe if enough people are disobedient there will be more movement toward creating the kind of shows to make the people in the arenas happy? I didn't hear too many crowds ignoring the product in Stone Cold's day. Also didn't see kids crying because things people in the arena wanted to see were happening in the arena. Saw a lot of happy kids back then just as today. Hell at like 10yo cheering for Stone Cold at a house show I guess I might've been one of those kids. I'm sorry I didn't want to see Aldo Montoya so much as I wanted to see Bret Hart kick Aldo Montoya's ass.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Apr 24, 2013 19:58:03 GMT -5
The way I see it, the onus is on the writers and the wrestlers to get the crowd to want to cheer for the good guys and boo the bad guys. But the crowd shouldn't have to do that just to "play along" if they're not entertained or if they like the heel more than face/hate the face more than heel.
That said, in my opinion, a hot crowd for any reason, be it enjoyment or rebellion, adds to a show a lot more than a cold crowd takes away from a show. At least with the rebellious post-WM type of crowds there is a weird, car crashy kind of vibe to it that you can't look away from, even when the show itself ain't that great.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Apr 24, 2013 19:58:47 GMT -5
I don't understand how some people can't see that the crowds behavior can be annoying to some people. Imagine you're watching a TV show with a studio audience and they were laughing when there were no jokes, "oohing" and "ahhing" when there was no reason for it and laughing during serious scenes. It might by kinda funny one week (even though it would ruin that episode), but it would be the most annoying thing in the world after a couple of occurances. I know wrestling is different and is more like sports, but it's annoying there too. It instantly makes you stop thinking about the game and begin wondering what the crowd is reacting to. And for those that say "Well what do you expect when the product is weak?". I expect you to NOT BUY A GODDAMN TICKET!!! When I think of things that will help wrestling, people not buying tickets typically doesn't come to mind. If you want to show people how it's done maybe you should get them first? Maybe if enough people are disobedient there will be more movement toward creating the kind of shows to make the people in the arenas happy? I didn't hear too many people playing with themselves in Stone Cold's day. Also didn't see kids crying because things people in the arena wanted to see were happening in the arena. Saw a lot of happy kids back then just as today. Wouldn't not going be a much stronger vote of no confindence? If you go even if you hate it, you show the company you're a lifer and nothing can make you go away. Marketers don't care about you. You're a part of their bankable base. And that's a bizarre way to influence change. If I hate Darius Rucker as a country singer, but I really liked Hootie and the Blowfish, I'm not gonna buy a ticket to one of Rucker's country shows and then proceed to boo his country songs and try to get the crowd to sing songs from Cracked Rear View in hopes that he'll have an epiphany and go back to making Hootie music. I will go to a show of someone I actually like. I don't know why you would waste time going to a wrestling show that you didn't like just to cause a rucus and potentially ruin it for people who actually do like the show.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Apr 24, 2013 20:04:10 GMT -5
When I think of things that will help wrestling, people not buying tickets typically doesn't come to mind. If you want to show people how it's done maybe you should get them first? Maybe if enough people are disobedient there will be more movement toward creating the kind of shows to make the people in the arenas happy? I didn't hear too many people playing with themselves in Stone Cold's day. Also didn't see kids crying because things people in the arena wanted to see were happening in the arena. Saw a lot of happy kids back then just as today. Wouldn't not going be a much stronger vote of no confindence? If you go even if you hate it, you show the company you're a lifer and nothing can make you go away. Marketers don't care about you. You're a part of their bankable base. And that's a bizarre way to influence change. If I hate Darius Rucker as a country singer, but I really liked Hootie and the Blowfish, I'm not gonna buy a ticket to one of Rucker's country shows and then proceed to boo his country songs and try to get the crowd to sing songs from Cracked Rear View in hopes that he'll have an epiphany and go back to making Hootie music. I will go to a show of someone I actually like. I don't know why you would waste time going to a wrestling show that you didn't like just to cause a rucus and potentially ruin it for people who actually do like the show. No no no that analogy sucks. You're talking about a good thing becoming a bad thing, like CM Punk became lame and corny or when they turned Yokozuna face with the beard. Wrestling is not a singular act. In fact the very nature of wrestling demands there be a minimum of at least two distinct featured acts, often at least about ten or so and possibly as many as 50 or more on a given show. It's like ok my favorite band is Rush. Rush ONLY EVER PLAYS on shows that are headlined by someone lame like I don't know spoken word poetry from that asshole Michael Rapaport. Am I just gonna give up on Rush? Awwwww Hellllll Nooooo! If Rush is given only 30 minutes and Rapaport is given 4 hours might I voice protest during Rapaport's set, especially if there's lots of other people doing it too? Awwwwww Helllll Yeahhhhhhhh! WWE has many of the most talented wrestlers working for them. It also has some people that absolutely suck and a tired and derivative creative direction.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Apr 24, 2013 20:11:41 GMT -5
No, what annoyed me was that the chants from the crowd were distracting and took me out of the match. The great Shane McMahon once said. You should be able to mute your t.v. And still be able to follow the story in the ring. If the crowds bother or distract people that much. Why not mute the t.v.? Because, at least for me, hearing the bumps, the announcers, music and other various sounds and noises are just as important. To mute the TV would be like taking away the seasoning from a great dish, yeah, it's still there and not bad but it's missing something vital. I don't understand how some people can't see that the crowds behavior can be annoying to some people. Imagine you're watching a TV show with a studio audience and they were laughing when there were no jokes, "oohing" and "ahhing" when there was no reason for it and laughing during serious scenes. It might by kinda funny one week (even though it would ruin that episode), but it would be the most annoying thing in the world after a couple of occurances. I know wrestling is different and is more like sports, but it's annoying there too. It instantly makes you stop thinking about the game and begin wondering what the crowd is reacting to. And for those that say "Well what do you expect when the product is weak?". I expect you to NOT BUY A GODDAMN TICKET!!! When I think of things that will help wrestling, people not buying tickets typically doesn't come to mind. If you want to show people how it's done maybe you should get them first? Maybe if enough people are disobedient there will be more movement toward creating the kind of shows to make the people in the arenas happy? I didn't hear too many crowds ignoring the product in Stone Cold's day. Also didn't see kids crying because things people in the arena wanted to see were happening in the arena. Saw a lot of happy kids back then just as today. Hell at like 10yo cheering for Stone Cold at a house show I guess I might've been one of those kids. I'm sorry I didn't want to see Aldo Montoya so much as I wanted to see Bret Hart kick Aldo Montoya's ass. How will paying for the right to sit there and heckle, for lack of a better vocabulary, teach someone like Vince McMahon a lesson or make him think or want to change things? He got what he was in it for when you willingly paid him to go to his show. You mention people not ignoring the product in Stone Cold's day, Stone Cold only got his day and era because people stopped paying Vince to see what was going on before it. As long as Vince can sit down and see that he made money in that market, he won't care what the people were chanting. Business don't change or get rid of things that are making them money just because people don't talk favorably about it, especially in the entertainment industry. That is why we have things like Scary Movie 17 and the constant remakes, re-imaginings and other things of that nature in the movie business.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Apr 24, 2013 20:13:07 GMT -5
The great Shane McMahon once said. You should be able to mute your t.v. And still be able to follow the story in the ring. If the crowds bother or distract people that much. Why not mute the t.v.? Because, at least for me, hearing the bumps, the announcers, music and other various sounds and noises are just as important. To mute the TV would be like taking away the seasoning from a great dish, yeah, it's still there and not bad but it's missing something vital. When I think of things that will help wrestling, people not buying tickets typically doesn't come to mind. If you want to show people how it's done maybe you should get them first? Maybe if enough people are disobedient there will be more movement toward creating the kind of shows to make the people in the arenas happy? I didn't hear too many crowds ignoring the product in Stone Cold's day. Also didn't see kids crying because things people in the arena wanted to see were happening in the arena. Saw a lot of happy kids back then just as today. Hell at like 10yo cheering for Stone Cold at a house show I guess I might've been one of those kids. I'm sorry I didn't want to see Aldo Montoya so much as I wanted to see Bret Hart kick Aldo Montoya's ass. How will paying for the right to sit there and heckle, for lack of a better vocabulary, teach someone like Vince McMahon a lesson or make him think or want to change things? He got what he was in it for when you willingly paid him to go to his show. You mention people not ignoring the product in Stone Cold's day, Stone Cold only got his day and era because people stopped paying Vince to see what was going on before it. As long as Vince can sit down and see that he made money in that market, he won't care what the people were chanting. Business don't change or get rid of things that are making them money just because people don't talk favorably about it, especially in the entertainment industry. That is why we have things like Scary Movie 17 and the constant remakes, re-imaginings and other things of that nature in the movie business. Yep, Rocky Maivia face character, now, then, and forever. Chanting has never had an influence at wrestling shows.
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