DIIV
ALF
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Post by DIIV on May 11, 2013 13:13:41 GMT -5
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Post by Mayonnaise on May 11, 2013 13:20:57 GMT -5
God no. Am I EVER sick of people acting like I'm an elitist because I've followed wrestlers for a while and have enjoyed them everywhere they've gone. There's that sensitivityyyyyyy. Not really. There is a sad mentality on this board now that if you've watched longer than 10 years, watched anything other than WWE and enjoyed it more or even so much as think guys like Hogan, Rock, Austin or Warrior were not the end all be all that you're an elitist asshole. Instead of just letting people be fans people are slapping stupid labels on others and think shit like this is a good idea to put those smarks in their rightful place. People no longer want to be wrestling fans, they want to be members of the WWE Universe and make sure those smarks in the IWC are taken down a peg. In the past week I've been called a hipster jackass for liking Chikara, a douchebag for liking CM Punk and an idiot for liking Paul Heyman's booking, so it's not being overly sensitive, it's dealing in the sad new reality. |
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on May 11, 2013 14:31:14 GMT -5
There's that sensitivityyyyyyy. Not really. There is a sad mentality on this board now that if you've watched longer than 10 years, watched anything other than WWE and enjoyed it more or even so much as think guys like Hogan, Rock, Austin or Warrior were not the end all be all that you're an elitist asshole. Instead of just letting people be fans people are slapping stupid labels on others and think shit like this is a good idea to put those smarks in their rightful place. People no longer want to be wrestling fans, they want to be members of the WWE Universe and make sure those smarks in the IWC are taken down a peg. In the past week I've been called a hipster jackass for liking Chikara, a douchebag for liking CM Punk and an idiot for liking Paul Heyman's booking, so it's not being overly sensitive, it's dealing in the sad new reality. I think you're blowing shit WAY out of proportion. Good lord. We smarks aren't some sad race that is suffering from bigotry and hatred. It's just different people with different tastes and opinions. Nobody is "out to get us" and take us down a peg. Puh-lease. |
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Post by BorneAgain on May 11, 2013 14:39:45 GMT -5
There should be a gimmick with a Smark but his name is Steven Mark and his gimmick is that he comes up bad combined nicknames for himself and others.
"Smark is gonna kick Rorton's ass and then defeat Jena for the WWEhampionship at Eliminamber."
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,295
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Post by The Ichi on May 11, 2013 14:47:20 GMT -5
Not really. There is a sad mentality on this board now that if you've watched longer than 10 years, watched anything other than WWE and enjoyed it more or even so much as think guys like Hogan, Rock, Austin or Warrior were not the end all be all that you're an elitist asshole. Instead of just letting people be fans people are slapping stupid labels on others and think shit like this is a good idea to put those smarks in their rightful place. People no longer want to be wrestling fans, they want to be members of the WWE Universe and make sure those smarks in the IWC are taken down a peg. In the past week I've been called a hipster jackass for liking Chikara, a douchebag for liking CM Punk and an idiot for liking Paul Heyman's booking, so it's not being overly sensitive, it's dealing in the sad new reality. I think you're blowing shit WAY out of proportion. Good lord. We smarks aren't some sad race that is suffering from bigotry and hatred. It's just different people with different tastes and opinions. Nobody is "out to get us" and take us down a peg. Puh-lease. Nowhere in that post were the words bigotry and hatred displayed. I agree with Ric, there seems to be too many attempts here at making people feel bad for who they cheer for. It happens mostly on two complete opposite spectrums (Cena fans and Punk fans are the most targeted). |
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Post by Mayonnaise on May 11, 2013 14:49:00 GMT -5
Not really. There is a sad mentality on this board now that if you've watched longer than 10 years, watched anything other than WWE and enjoyed it more or even so much as think guys like Hogan, Rock, Austin or Warrior were not the end all be all that you're an elitist asshole. Instead of just letting people be fans people are slapping stupid labels on others and think shit like this is a good idea to put those smarks in their rightful place. People no longer want to be wrestling fans, they want to be members of the WWE Universe and make sure those smarks in the IWC are taken down a peg. In the past week I've been called a hipster jackass for liking Chikara, a douchebag for liking CM Punk and an idiot for liking Paul Heyman's booking, so it's not being overly sensitive, it's dealing in the sad new reality. I think you're blowing shit WAY out of proportion. Good lord. We smarks aren't some sad race that is suffering from bigotry and hatred. It's just different people with different tastes and opinions. Nobody is "out to get us" and take us down a peg. Puh-lease. Really? Being attacked for liking something with people specifically mentioning that the people that like certain things need to be "told the truth" and "put in their place" isn't having people out to get them or take them down a peg? I completely disagree, especially when it deals with this board and this wasn't an issue until recently. Quite frankly, I'm sick it. If people don't like something or understand why people like it that is fine, ask questions, say you don't get it/like it, call the product shit that is fine but attacking people/fans over it (and yes, flaming people by calling them hipster jackasses, idiots and other things is attacking them, IMO) isn't and it goes too far. There is no place for it here. If people want to be jackasses, there are plenty of other places you can buy you're way on and do that, this isn't one of them. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2013 14:57:52 GMT -5
It happens a lot actually.
I think the worst thing is people labeling you as something simply based on who you enjoy watching. If you like guys like Cena or Ryback, then you're a sheep. If you like guys like Punk or Bryan, you're an elitist. It can't just be as simple as "I like this guy, he entertains me", no you must be apart of a hive, incapable of thinking for yourself.
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,011
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Post by nate5054 on May 11, 2013 15:11:35 GMT -5
Go watch Chikara for this kind of meta crap. CHIKARA wouldn't do something this insulting to its audience, I would hope. And neither should WWE. Or anyone. Yeah, WWE only insults me by having little guys go thru walls and having wrestlers try to follow him thru said wall only to bump his head. |
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Post by cool guy on May 11, 2013 15:36:18 GMT -5
I think a smarky heel manager could work.
If only so he could get to yell "I watch this show EVERY WEEK. I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT"
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on May 11, 2013 16:16:50 GMT -5
The entire "labelling people" people on this board isn't what I meant to do with this thread at all I'm sorry if anyone took offense.
Fact of the matter is these people do exist. I don't think it's very much that way within this community (But I haven't been around long) but if you go to an indy show with an indy darling on a card smarks will come up to you and try and put over how intelligent they are.
For example, I went to an indy card about 2 years ago. Sonjay Dutt was in town and this smarky guy was running around asking me and my friends if we knew who was behind us. Me and my buddy did but our others friends didn't didn't know so he then starts asking me if I know what ROH is. I said I did but was a casual fan at best then he sarcastically asks me if I'm an "Asshole TNA fan" which I am/was
It isn't just non smarks picking on smarks. Most of the time smarks will try and ruin a casual fans time a lot. If I had a dollar for every time a fat smark has turned around and asked kids why they're chanting for Cena I'd probably have a few dollars.
I think the gimmick would be fun because a lot of people can relate to it. Everyone has had one of the discussions I mentioned above with a smark. I still stand by the fact it wouldn't be that offensive. I think someone doing a stereotypical retarded gimmick or a guy throwing a disabled man down the steps is way worse than a character who is a "smart mark"
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Sajoa Moe
Patti Mayonnaise
Did you get that thing I sent ya?
A man without gimmick.
Posts: 39,683
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Post by Sajoa Moe on May 11, 2013 21:50:07 GMT -5
Is it time for this topic AGAIN?
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on May 11, 2013 22:06:17 GMT -5
There's that sensitivityyyyyyy. Not really. There is a sad mentality on this board now that if you've watched longer than 10 years, watched anything other than WWE and enjoyed it more or even so much as think guys like Hogan, Rock, Austin or Warrior were not the end all be all that you're an elitist asshole. Instead of just letting people be fans people are slapping stupid labels on others and think shit like this is a good idea to put those smarks in their rightful place. People no longer want to be wrestling fans, they want to be members of the WWE Universe and make sure those smarks in the IWC are taken down a peg. In the past week I've been called a hipster jackass for liking Chikara, a douchebag for liking CM Punk and an idiot for liking Paul Heyman's booking, so it's not being overly sensitive, it's dealing in the sad new reality. Anybody who goes to those lengths is insecure about their own beliefs or feels threatened that what they prefer might be viewed as ---or god forbid actually be-- not that great or true. It comes from a place wherein they need their own preferences ultimately validated to keep them, and will tear down ideas or opinions that go against their own core beliefs. It pretty much goes for everything, really. Find a group, any group, and there'll be people like this. Be it religion, politics, social views, etc, etc. A person who truly believes in something doesn't care what others think. And they feel it speaks for itself. Anybody who kneejerk defends or criticizes with gusto, is coming from a place of ultimate insecurity. Its psychology 101. |
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on May 11, 2013 22:12:12 GMT -5
Not really. There is a sad mentality on this board now that if you've watched longer than 10 years, watched anything other than WWE and enjoyed it more or even so much as think guys like Hogan, Rock, Austin or Warrior were not the end all be all that you're an elitist asshole. Instead of just letting people be fans people are slapping stupid labels on others and think shit like this is a good idea to put those smarks in their rightful place. People no longer want to be wrestling fans, they want to be members of the WWE Universe and make sure those smarks in the IWC are taken down a peg. In the past week I've been called a hipster jackass for liking Chikara, a douchebag for liking CM Punk and an idiot for liking Paul Heyman's booking, so it's not being overly sensitive, it's dealing in the sad new reality. Anybody who goes to those lengths is insecure about their own beliefs or feels threatened that what they prefer might be viewed as ---or god forbid actually be-- not that great or true. It comes from a place wherein they need their own preferences ultimately validated to keep them, and will tear down ideas or opinions that go against their own core beliefs. It pretty much goes for everything, really. Find a group, any group, and there'll be people like this. Be it religion, politics, social views, etc, etc. A person who truly believes in something doesn't care what others think. And they feel it speaks for itself. Anybody who kneejerk defends or criticizes with gusto, is coming from a place of ultimate insecurity. Its psychology 101. Nailed it. I had someone say "You like Dolph Ziggler? f*** you!" to me while wearing my #HEEL hoodie before telling me how stupid I am for liking him. I don't think the fact that at that point I had been watching wrestling at least twice as long as him makes my opinion more valid but I do think it makes it a bit better informed. At least I don't entirely disregard other people's likes because I've been a totally f***ing obsessed nerd for 15 years now. |
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on May 14, 2013 13:45:09 GMT -5
Once again, John Cena is the paradigm of this argument. Personally, I quit explicitly cheering or booing him years ago. Frankly, I was playing a ridicluously bi-polar mind game with myself. He is good at what he does...damn good, actually. Is he a "technical" wrestler? No. A high-flyer? No. He is an American-strong-style wrestler who is the best at doing just that for the best company in doing that in the world. If The E was purely techincal wrestling, Daniel Bryan and Steve Regal would be undefeated champs...
Overly cheering or booing Cena is a waste of time. It's like eating McDonald's and expecting a Filet Mignon. McDonald's serve the "pink-stuff", but it's the best tasting, fastest-made pink-stuff available. If you take emotion out of criticizing Cena, looking at him objectively, for what he is asked to do for WWE, he's actually quite good. Watch some recent Botchamanias. He calls almost the entire match. Forgive me for sounding blasphemous, but Cena carried The Rock during WM28 and almost through WM29.
Hulk Hogan never left his feet and his matches were tiresomely predictable. At least Cena is athletic.
Back to the original idea. People want so badly to be a part of something so they don't want to feel unhip. Watch Jimmy Kimmel's segment on Coachella 2013 for proof. What social group was the pre-cursor for hipsters? "Seen/ Scene Kids". People who just showed up at events in order to be "seen" at the "scene". We all want to like something or be a part of something before everyone else. If you hear a wrestling fan start of a conversation with, "I watched ROH before...," then run screaming. I have been accused of that myself, sadly. I try not to do it in a snarky way, though. People want to say they hate John Cena for many reasons. Interestingly enough, most of them are beyond his control. One wouldn't criticize a defense attorney by all the criminals she saves from prison. Instead, criticize the system that allows for her to be so successful in helping her clients avoid prison. In other words, from HOFer Booker T: "Don't hate the playa, hate the game!"
A smark character will never work. The closet we got was Puppet H beating up the IWC Puppet, and that's enough.
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Post by Andrew is Good on May 14, 2013 18:00:26 GMT -5
People keep ignoring mentions of Mark (who is smart) from "Are You Serious" on Youtube. I think that's the best spot to put a character like that. A little puppet on a youtube show. Personally, I think they should have kept Mark around a lot more. Also, I think he had something in the background that said "Drew McIntyre = Underrated" and Drew put it over, saying Mark had good taste. But yeah, for an online show, they should have Mark pop up every now and again. Also, at 3:20 But yes, WWE should continue with a smark gimmick, but only online and for little things like this. |
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Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on May 14, 2013 18:15:19 GMT -5
Not really. There is a sad mentality on this board now that if you've watched longer than 10 years, watched anything other than WWE and enjoyed it more or even so much as think guys like Hogan, Rock, Austin or Warrior were not the end all be all that you're an elitist asshole. Instead of just letting people be fans people are slapping stupid labels on others and think shit like this is a good idea to put those smarks in their rightful place. People no longer want to be wrestling fans, they want to be members of the WWE Universe and make sure those smarks in the IWC are taken down a peg. In the past week I've been called a hipster jackass for liking Chikara, a douchebag for liking CM Punk and an idiot for liking Paul Heyman's booking, so it's not being overly sensitive, it's dealing in the sad new reality. Anybody who goes to those lengths is insecure about their own beliefs or feels threatened that what they prefer might be viewed as ---or god forbid actually be-- not that great or true. It comes from a place wherein they need their own preferences ultimately validated to keep them, and will tear down ideas or opinions that go against their own core beliefs. It pretty much goes for everything, really. Find a group, any group, and there'll be people like this. Be it religion, politics, social views, etc, etc. A person who truly believes in something doesn't care what others think. And they feel it speaks for itself. Anybody who kneejerk defends or criticizes with gusto, is coming from a place of ultimate insecurity. Its psychology 101. This isn't about a fan's insecurity. This is the wrestling business continually going out of their way to make sure that if you are a fan of a certain type and if you prefer a certain type of talent for your own reasons rather than the ones you're told, you are not just "wrong", but overly interested in something that really shouldn't warrant that much interest at all, leading to further denigration. I'm completely secure in my fandom of Bryan Danielson, but the wrestling business says shame on me for liking him before he grew a beard and started screaming monosyllabic responses to everything. The little puppet on YouTube wasn't cute ribbing. It was just another in countless mom's basement/fat/nerd/virgin/IWC putdowns that have gone on so long that now wrestling fans have begun to grow to be so self-loathing as to defend it! |
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on May 14, 2013 18:56:09 GMT -5
Anybody who goes to those lengths is insecure about their own beliefs or feels threatened that what they prefer might be viewed as ---or god forbid actually be-- not that great or true. It comes from a place wherein they need their own preferences ultimately validated to keep them, and will tear down ideas or opinions that go against their own core beliefs. It pretty much goes for everything, really. Find a group, any group, and there'll be people like this. Be it religion, politics, social views, etc, etc. A person who truly believes in something doesn't care what others think. And they feel it speaks for itself. Anybody who kneejerk defends or criticizes with gusto, is coming from a place of ultimate insecurity. Its psychology 101. This isn't about a fan's insecurity. This is the wrestling business continually going out of their way to make sure that if you are a fan of a certain type and if you prefer a certain type of talent for your own reasons rather than the ones you're told, you are not just "wrong", but overly interested in something that really shouldn't warrant that much interest at all, leading to further denigration. I'm completely secure in my fandom of Bryan Danielson, but the wrestling business says shame on me for liking him before he grew a beard and started screaming monosyllabic responses to everything. The little puppet on YouTube wasn't cute ribbing. It was just another in countless mom's basement/fat/nerd/virgin/IWC putdowns that have gone on so long that now wrestling fans have begun to grow to be so self-loathing as to defend it! I'll be honest, I can't for the life of me understand how the puppet can come off as mean-spirited. Hmm no, I don't think that's quite what I mean - I can't understand how someone would care about it. I can see how you would maybe take that as the WWE being mean spirited(though I don't agree with it) but I can't understand why people would get defensive over it. I watched the show and I found the puppet pretty funny. It seemed like a simple parody of a the way certain people behave. I don't see that as the wrestling business attempting to shame anyone, but even if they were trying to - how would it be even remotely effective? The puppet was such an exaggerated, ridiculous character that I can't see how people would think "They are taking a shot at me" as opposed to "They are taking a shot at a stereotype that applies to very, very few people." I don't think of myself as self-loathing for defending the puppet because, well, the puppet is a caricature that does not act, talk or care about things in even remotely the same way as I do. If the wrestling business tried to shame me I'm pretty confident it would not work because I'm generally not ashamed of things I do - otherwise I wouldn't do them - and if they are trying to shame me for things I don't do - well then it's ineffective. I was honestly pretty surprised people took the puppet seriously because I honestly thought it was over the top enough nobody would take it as something directed at them. |
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on May 14, 2013 20:07:41 GMT -5
Anybody who goes to those lengths is insecure about their own beliefs or feels threatened that what they prefer might be viewed as ---or god forbid actually be-- not that great or true. It comes from a place wherein they need their own preferences ultimately validated to keep them, and will tear down ideas or opinions that go against their own core beliefs. It pretty much goes for everything, really. Find a group, any group, and there'll be people like this. Be it religion, politics, social views, etc, etc. A person who truly believes in something doesn't care what others think. And they feel it speaks for itself. Anybody who kneejerk defends or criticizes with gusto, is coming from a place of ultimate insecurity. Its psychology 101. This isn't about a fan's insecurity. This is the wrestling business continually going out of their way to make sure that if you are a fan of a certain type and if you prefer a certain type of talent for your own reasons rather than the ones you're told, you are not just "wrong", but overly interested in something that really shouldn't warrant that much interest at all, leading to further denigration. I'm completely secure in my fandom of Bryan Danielson, but the wrestling business says shame on me for liking him before he grew a beard and started screaming monosyllabic responses to everything. The little puppet on YouTube wasn't cute ribbing. It was just another in countless mom's basement/fat/nerd/virgin/IWC putdowns that have gone on so long that now wrestling fans have begun to grow to be so self-loathing as to defend it! I didn't mean the supposed smarks were insecure. I mean the types that bash said smarks appreciation for things they themselves don't see or appreciate. Those who would say an Antonio Cesaro "sucks" and deserves to get buried because, for whatever reason, his online fanbase irks them. Some people NEED to believe the WWE is infallible for some reason. And often, they have knee-jerk reactions of anger because they want (or need) to be right to validate their preferences. |
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on May 14, 2013 20:45:25 GMT -5
I never watched this, but let me guess; He lives at home He's a virgin He has a nasally whiny voice |
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on May 14, 2013 21:13:03 GMT -5
This isn't about a fan's insecurity. This is the wrestling business continually going out of their way to make sure that if you are a fan of a certain type and if you prefer a certain type of talent for your own reasons rather than the ones you're told, you are not just "wrong", but overly interested in something that really shouldn't warrant that much interest at all, leading to further denigration. I'm completely secure in my fandom of Bryan Danielson, but the wrestling business says shame on me for liking him before he grew a beard and started screaming monosyllabic responses to everything. The little puppet on YouTube wasn't cute ribbing. It was just another in countless mom's basement/fat/nerd/virgin/IWC putdowns that have gone on so long that now wrestling fans have begun to grow to be so self-loathing as to defend it! I'll be honest, I can't for the life of me understand how the puppet can come off as mean-spirited. Hmm no, I don't think that's quite what I mean - I can't understand how someone would care about it. I can see how you would maybe take that as the WWE being mean spirited(though I don't agree with it) but I can't understand why people would get defensive over it. I watched the show and I found the puppet pretty funny. It seemed like a simple parody of a the way certain people behave. I don't see that as the wrestling business attempting to shame anyone, but even if they were trying to - how would it be even remotely effective? The puppet was such an exaggerated, ridiculous character that I can't see how people would think "They are taking a shot at me" as opposed to "They are taking a shot at a stereotype that applies to very, very few people." I don't think of myself as self-loathing for defending the puppet because, well, the puppet is a caricature that does not act, talk or care about things in even remotely the same way as I do. If the wrestling business tried to shame me I'm pretty confident it would not work because I'm generally not ashamed of things I do - otherwise I wouldn't do them - and if they are trying to shame me for things I don't do - well then it's ineffective. I was honestly pretty surprised people took the puppet seriously because I honestly thought it was over the top enough nobody would take it as something directed at them. I agree with this. I don't understand how a person could be offended by a silly puppet sketch. It would be like old people getting upset over Statler and Waldorf. I would say that it reflects poorly more on the person offended by an over the top jokey skit than the person that just laughs it off. It's not that self-loathing or self-hating garbage. Some people just don't take themselves or their fandom as serious as cancer. |
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