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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2013 15:23:09 GMT -5
I've read this topic.
I'm still confused as to over what should Hulk and Bischoff be getting credit.
Am I wrong in thinking this topic says they should get credit for not tanking TNA or...?
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Post by Bram wants to 'urt you on Jun 1, 2013 16:24:31 GMT -5
How come Hulk and Eric don't get any credit? Because of the shortfall between what they bring to the product, and what they promised (or at least implied) they would bring to the product.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Jun 1, 2013 20:51:38 GMT -5
I mean, I could see the ocassional fan who thinks to themselves "Hogan is still around? I gotta see this", but are people seriously tuning in week in, week out to see a crippled Hogan who can only throw a couple of punches and spends most of his time behind a desk now? The ratings say no. 100%. I'm someone who tunes in for Hulk I like his microphone work and the guy is a legend. I'm a fan. I've paid over a hundred bucks to see Hogan wrestle before and there was about 10,000 people in the building that night. That was about 3 and a half years ago but he's a draw. I went that night just for Hulk (And to a lesser extent Flair) I'm not sure if there's video on youtube or something but if you search Hulkamania Tour 2009 look at how crazy the fans go for Hulk. You can make the argument that people may not buy tickets to see Hulk at TNA but that night, everybody had bought tickets for him which in my mind shows he's a draw by himself. |
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Jun 1, 2013 23:04:48 GMT -5
I mean, I could see the ocassional fan who thinks to themselves "Hogan is still around? I gotta see this", but are people seriously tuning in week in, week out to see a crippled Hogan who can only throw a couple of punches and spends most of his time behind a desk now? The ratings say no. 100%. I'm someone who tunes in for Hulk I like his microphone work and the guy is a legend. I'm a fan. I've paid over a hundred bucks to see Hogan wrestle before and there was about 10,000 people in the building that night. That was about 3 and a half years ago but he's a draw. I went that night just for Hulk (And to a lesser extent Flair) I'm not sure if there's video on youtube or something but if you search Hulkamania Tour 2009 look at how crazy the fans go for Hulk. You can make the argument that people may not buy tickets to see Hulk at TNA but that night, everybody had bought tickets for him which in my mind shows he's a draw by himself. See the thing is if Hogan and Eric and their influence/presence correlated to any sort of upswing in TNA's business, wouldn't they be selling the HELL out of that fact? In their shoes I would shill that. I have the feeling that Dixie would as well. And the problem is that just because you believe or feel this way doesn't mean that such a worldview is representative on a whole. If their presence was a positive to viewership, why haven't their ratings increased in some regard? Or why aren't they touting increased internet viewership? Now, I wont nay say Hulk completely. But I don't believe after from a mild nostalgia surge that either he or Bischoff have contributed to the product meaningfully or in a positive lasting manner. And presenting just conjecture, or personal opinions, where one cannot prove causation, or even correlation to the impact of Eric and Hulk on TNA does not make a firm prima fascie case. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2013 10:33:11 GMT -5
Every Hulk Hogan "pro" listed in the OP could be condensed into one: He's Famous.
It's literally all he has going for him, and I highly doubt it translates into enough dollars to cover what he gets paid.
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Post by sportatorium on Jun 5, 2013 14:48:06 GMT -5
I was actually wondering if the OP was satire to begin with. They don't get "credit" due to:
Nepotism- Their kids are entwined in the top storyline/angle in the company right now. To her credit, it looks like Brooke is improving, but a wrestling company trying to put a legitimate product on TV should be a million miles from Garrett Bischoff as in-ring talent.
Self indulgence/promotion- The current heel champion has worked as hard as anyone I've seen recently to get in better shape & reinvent himself as a main eventer. He has tremendous heat w/ the fans & is in the top 2 or 3 wrestlers in the US right now. The main babyface opposing him is Hulk Hogan. His opponents (Hardy, Sting) have been secondary to the overall feud, all the other top babyfaces have been moved to secondary feuds or to the mid card or tag division. The angle will move Bully Ray aside to have Hogan feud with his daughter. Say what you want about Bruce Prichard, but this has Hulk's fingerprints all over it.
Lack of awareness/talent evaluation- Abyss was going to be his "Cena", a big muppet in a leather mask covered in scars was going to be the mainstream face of the company. They were booking the Nasty Boys on TV while Brian Knobbs was walking around on an artificial hip. Bischoff probably has a mind for talent evaluation, but he's more interested in controversial/dangerous angles & moments than actually trying to take a guy, build him up, get him over & get out of the way.
These knuckleheads need to be gone yesterday.
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Post by Bogle McNeep on Jul 7, 2013 10:22:36 GMT -5
Because they are both total cocks.
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Glitch
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Post by Glitch on Jul 7, 2013 16:20:13 GMT -5
This argument always seems to come back to "Hogan appeared in my home country that he pretty much never visits, and people really liked it!" Which is the case in about every country that barely gets major wrestlers to show up. I'm sure if Hogan was constantly in Australia, he wouldn't seem so special.
In 2007 Hogan headlined PMG Clash of Legends. He faced the Big show(a pretty big name too). The attendance was 2,200. Pretty friggin small turn out for someone who's a legend in wrestling and a current wwe wrestler.
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Post by Chuckie Finster on Jul 8, 2013 4:11:54 GMT -5
At the end of the day, the Bischoff/Hogan era can be defined by two moments.
"Bobby Roode isn't he guy, brother."
"It's not James Storm's time broher."
Torpedo, meet ship.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 11:07:13 GMT -5
At the end of the day, the Bischoff/Hogan era can be defined by two moments. "Bobby Roode isn't he guy, brother." "It's not James Storm's time broher." Torpedo, meet ship. Bobby Roode not winning at BFG 2011 probably saved his title run and main event career at that point. |
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Post by The Trashman on Jul 8, 2013 11:32:12 GMT -5
They get lots of credit for blowing that whole Monday Night Wars thing they tried, blowing this Aces and Eights storyline, ruining Abyss...
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 8, 2013 12:40:05 GMT -5
Cuz they really haven't done anything.
Although to give Bisch credit, production values improved some, so that's a positive. Other than that though, any benefit they've brought has been completely negligible
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Jul 9, 2013 0:12:23 GMT -5
At the end of the day, the Bischoff/Hogan era can be defined by two moments. "Bobby Roode isn't he guy, brother." "It's not James Storm's time broher." Torpedo, meet ship. Bobby Roode not winning at BFG 2011 probably saved his title run and main event career at that point. Yeah. Too bad Vince didn't swerve the crowd back in the early eighties and have Hulk lose to Shiek to keep the fans wanting more. Imagine how big Hogan could have been if his first win wasn't so telegraphed and fan appeasing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2013 7:25:55 GMT -5
Bobby Roode not winning at BFG 2011 probably saved his title run and main event career at that point. Yeah. Too bad Vince didn't swerve the crowd back in the early eighties and have Hulk lose to Shiek to keep the fans wanting more. Imagine how big Hogan could have been if his first win wasn't so telegraphed and fan appeasing. Are you seriously comparing Bobby Roode to AWA/Japan/Thunderlips Hogan? Roode was a white meat babyface who got shoehorned into that spot with virtually no build-up. No one was clamoring for a Roode babyface run. It was a classic Russo rush job. Aries was hotter in 2012 than Roode was in 2011. Face Roode winning the title would have flopped and then everyone would have been saying lolTNA for ruining it (like James Storm's face run). Him turning heel saved his career as it gave him tons of babyfaces to work with, as opposed to no heels to work with had he won the title at BFG. I agree they should not have ended BFG with a heel winning, but the decision to turn Roode heel was 100% correct. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 9, 2013 8:20:13 GMT -5
Roode's an example of something turning out right, just after taking the longest, goofiest route possible
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Post by Johnny D on Jul 9, 2013 13:54:50 GMT -5
Very basically: WCW isn't around anymore, that's enough reason for me to why they don't get enough 'credit'.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2013 19:54:41 GMT -5
Yeah. Too bad Vince didn't swerve the crowd back in the early eighties and have Hulk lose to Shiek to keep the fans wanting more. Imagine how big Hogan could have been if his first win wasn't so telegraphed and fan appeasing. Are you seriously comparing Bobby Roode to AWA/Japan/Thunderlips Hogan? Roode was a white meat babyface who got shoehorned into that spot with virtually no build-up. No one was clamoring for a Roode babyface run. It was a classic Russo rush job. Aries was hotter in 2012 than Roode was in 2011. Face Roode winning the title would have flopped and then everyone would have been saying lolTNA for ruining it (like James Storm's face run). Him turning heel saved his career as it gave him tons of babyfaces to work with, as opposed to no heels to work with had he won the title at BFG. I agree they should not have ended BFG with a heel winning, but the decision to turn Roode heel was 100% correct. I think Roode's a much better heel and I'm glad he ended up heel. But I TOTALLY disagree with that first paragraph. Totally. Dude, the buildup to Bobby Roode at BFG was anything but short and rushed. It was a fantastic build. And yeah, lots of us were crying for a Bobby Roode face turn since he was cutting this scathing promos on Hogan and friends. Part of the reason him not winning sucked so bad was the build was fantastic and made it really feel like his time to break through. |
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Jul 10, 2013 8:52:24 GMT -5
Yeah Roode had a tremendous heel run, however that was only a recovery and a true testament to his character. I am comparing the two because Hogan's win, like Roode's BFG series was telegraphed from a mile away and very predictable but was what the crowd wanted and went over pretty good. In this day and age especially amongst the Bischoff/Russo bookers they are more interested in getting the fans to want what they want them to then giving the fans what they want.
Would Hogan have tanked if he lost to Shiek? No, probably not, but having him win was right by the fans. Did Bobby tank? No, but having him win would have been right by the fans. That's the comparison.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Jul 10, 2013 10:26:52 GMT -5
Let's give them credit for falling ratings and small crowd turnouts!
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Magnus the Magnificent
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jul 10, 2013 10:50:41 GMT -5
Let's give them credit for falling ratings and small crowd turnouts!  |
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