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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 8, 2013 22:29:04 GMT -5
So don't expect wrestling fans to be wrestling fans of old but a new snark ire bunch? It is only a decades old practice of replacing guys without telling that they used to be here under a different name. Hell, that was a part of the fun for the longest. And there's your problem, right there. An outdated, outmoded business practice that was instituted before the rise of social media (and most forms of digital media at all, for that matter) seems to not be working in 2013? Well color me shocked. This is just another holdover from the carnie era that needs to go. But yeah, fans are much snarkier. Twenty years ago a CM Punk character would've been booed out of the building. Now many fans think they're counterculture and edgy by supporting that same guy and think him so much as farting is utter brilliance. If Punk modified Natalya's fart gimmick and worked it into his moveset without any fanfare or buildup, I'd love him forever.
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
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Post by Chip on Jul 8, 2013 22:29:05 GMT -5
Because back then people paid the money to enjoy the show, not be smarky douchebags. Right. Mmmmhmmm. Sure. They certainly didn't chant Moondog at the original Demolition Smash. Nah, the crowds back then were civilized! ......... Did this really happen? I don't see why this is a big deal at all. That's because it's not. The internet is for overreacting and porn and apparently the porn sites are down at the moment. I gotta do something whilst I'm recovering, I'm not a machine!
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Jul 8, 2013 22:29:50 GMT -5
It's because Husky Harris is easy to chant. There's a reason nobody chants "Michael McGillicutty" at Axel. Because Curtis Axel IS Michael McGillicutty. Also, because the name McGillicutty is so terrible people probably start to gear up the chant before giving up halfway through it because the name makes them cringe hard enough to cause brief, but powerful amnesia.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 22:30:05 GMT -5
Honestly, why even bother pretending? Husky was on TV for a long time. If you're hell-bent on repackaging a known character, you either have to pull a Johnny Nitro and let him keep his name as a safeguard against this, or you send him back down to the farm system the moment you're uncertain if he'll float.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Jul 8, 2013 22:32:31 GMT -5
Right. Mmmmhmmm. Sure. They certainly didn't chant Moondog at the original Demolition Smash. Nah, the crowds back then were civilized! ......... Did this really happen? Yes, it very much did. Moondog Rex was originally Smash, and the crowd shit all over it.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,660
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Post by thecrusherwi on Jul 8, 2013 22:34:40 GMT -5
I'll post this here cuz the other threads were closed
I just don't see the point in chanting an old characters name at a Guy. How does that add to their enjoyment of the show? If these people where in the past, think of all great characters that would've been annoyingly ridiculed by the crowd.
"Mean Mark Call-ous" "Stunn-ing Steve" "Cac-tus Jack" "I-saac Yan-kem" "Di-mond Stu-udd" "Vin-nie Ve-gas" "Ter-ra Ry-sing" "Din-go Wa-rrior" ...and so on
Seriously, everyone has had a different name before they made it big. And nearly everyone knew about them even back then. Hell I was a little kid with no Internet and knew who all of these guys were before they debuted in their famous personas and I'm sure I wasn't alone. I wish crowds would just sit back and give new characters a chance to show what they can do instead of go "ooh I know him" and not even watch the segment.
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stealthamo
King Koopa
Something stupid
#AJAll
Posts: 11,247
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Post by stealthamo on Jul 8, 2013 22:34:48 GMT -5
That may be true, but he didn't really do anything that was that memorable. The only thing I remember Husky Harris actually doing was that one time on Raw when he stared directly into the camera. That's it. I believe he was also in the Royal Rumble when the New Nexus was still somewhat of a thing, but I don't remember anything he did in that either. His look was unique, I'll give you that, but I still don't think that I would've known it was the same person, at least right away. 1. People watching TV see a wrestler (who is advertised time and time again). 2. People ask "Who is that wrestler?" 3. People use the internets to conduct research. 4. Wikipedia tells them it's the same guy who played Husky Harris. It's actually simpler than it would seem. With the rise of twitter as a wrestling fandom mechanism, more and more fans are now internet fans, no matter how casual they may be. I honestly didn't think about it like that. I guess wrestling has changed a lot with what it was like when I grew up, though that was right around when this whole Internet craze first began, so I didn't frequent any wrestling sites outside of wwf.com (to see PPV results the day after). But even when I did start going onto wrestling boards and finding out all this, I would never think to go, "You know what I should do? Chant the debuting guy's former ring name!" Mainly because I don't see the point in doing so.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Jul 8, 2013 22:35:32 GMT -5
So don't expect wrestling fans to be wrestling fans of old but a new snark ire bunch? It is only a decades old practice of replacing guys without telling that they used to be here under a different name. Hell, that was a part of the fun for the longest. And there's your problem, right there. An outdated, outmoded business practice that was instituted before the rise of social media (and most forms of digital media at all, for that matter) seems to not be working in 2013? Well color me shocked. This is just another holdover from the carnie era that needs to go. But yeah, fans are much snarkier. Twenty years ago a CM Punk character would've been booed out of the building. Now many fans think they're counterculture and edgy by supporting that same guy and think him so much as farting is utter brilliance. Whether you like it or not, that's the fanbase now. Times have changed, and the business practices need to change too. I'll just say I far from agree that the business needs to change and I'd rather see them lose some of snarkier element of fan. Cheer and boo who you want (Lord knows I do) but leave that "smarter than the company" crap at home. I just don't get that stuff. I don't get what chanting Husky Harris tonight proves other than you have a working Internet connection and vocal cords.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Jul 8, 2013 22:36:00 GMT -5
Honestly, why even bother pretending? Husky was on TV for a long time. If you're hell-bent on repackaging a known character, you either have to pull a Johnny Nitro and let him keep his name as a safeguard against this, or you send him back down to the farm system the moment you're uncertain if he'll float. It's really not such a big deal that you need to do either of those things.
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Post by Indiana Miz on Jul 8, 2013 22:36:02 GMT -5
I hope they add some more members down the line and become somewhat of of a modern day Flock.
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Fiddleford H. McGucket
El Dandy
My Mind's been gone for 30-odd years! Can't Break what's already broken!
Posts: 8,748
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Post by Fiddleford H. McGucket on Jul 8, 2013 22:36:41 GMT -5
I resent the implication that they did it because they were smarks.I mean who watches indie wrestling,Smarks,but you don't see them chanting for {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Spoiler Mike Quackenbush and Chuck Taylor when {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Spoiler Los Ice Creams wrestle I didn't know. WHY DID I CLICK THE SPOILERS!
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Post by nickcave on Jul 8, 2013 22:36:48 GMT -5
It wouldn't be hard at all to transition the characters though. "That's what THEY called me before my eyes were opened, I was once like you, a sheep, lost and following along; but I have answered the riddle, and I see the truth. I have been reborn through blood and fire and have become what you see before you now. Chant that name if you wish, it is the name of a dead man, a lost little lamb that had to be slaughtered to light the way, but I am the man who has his eyes open, the taunts of the blind are meaningless, and one by one, your eyes will be open too.." Or something thereabouts. Just one promo to bury the past and show this is a different guy. Easy. Yeah honestly that's the best way to go about it, that's what CM Punk did for Festus in transitioning him to the Luke Gallows character. He said he "cured" him with the Straight Edge lifestyle. Pretty simple fix.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Jul 8, 2013 22:37:08 GMT -5
Wrestling fans: they used to think that the Ultimate Warrior died and was replaced by another guy, but yet they still remember an NXT Season 2 gimmick from 2-3 years ago that was watched by a fraction of the weekly television audience.
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Post by salsashark on Jul 8, 2013 22:37:36 GMT -5
Snarky posts that bitch about people chanting things like these and using wrestlers' past names (i.e., Matt Sydal instead of Evan Bourne) are even more annoying and unlikable than those activities in the first place. I mean, why do people have to pretend past characters didn't exist if it's the same guy in a different role on the same show and the change is never explained or addressed on-screen? Transition these guys logically and acknowledge their pasts and it wouldn't be such a big deal. That's just how entertainment works, though. You don't go see Sherlock Holmes and expect to see an Iron Man reference just because the main character is played by the same guy. Could WWE acknowledge Husky Harris? Sure, they did it with Curtis Axel. But the concept of playing different characters certainly isn't unique to wrestling. One quick thing since I realize my original post was kind of muddled: My point about people bitching about guys getting called their old names is separate in theory from people who bitch about chants like these; I just think both people complain about both issues but these are separate ideas. I understand that WWE wants to give Sin Cara or Evan Bourne or R-Truth or whoever a WWE name instead of their original. That's OK. I just don't think calling Sin Cara Mistico now would be worthy of shock and revulsion like I read on this board constantly. It's not that big of a deal. That said, saying that expecting to see a Sherlock reference in Iron Man very much misses the point of what I was saying about the WWE on-screen product. Sherlock Holmes and Iron Man exist in different universes. Imagine Mickey Rourke playing the bad guy in Iron Man 2, and then coming back in Iron Man 3 to play a totally different bad guy who is not even acknowledged as being related to the bad guy from Iron Man 2. It's kinda disingenuous. I understand that certain wrestlers are not right for certain characters, and that's OK. Glenn Jacobs sucked as Isaac Yankem but rules as Kane. They didn't reference the old character in making the new one, and no one cared. They got away with it fine. Great, I'm happy for them. That said, there are TONS of WWE characters in history who have been one guy coming back in a new role and the transition is never acknowledged, and I don't understand why not. It'd make the world seem more coherent. If audiences are going to chastise them or chant about it, then so be it. Say that Bray Wyatt was known as Husky Harris until he decided to shed his old skin and become a new man and take on a new identity. Explain that. I mean, they sorta explained Hunter Hearst-Helmsley turning into the Degeneration-X dude through his association with Shawn Michaels. It created continuity and a fuller character. That's better storytelling that just pretending some dude didn't exist. You can make transitions more seamless. If they had just acknowledged that Tensai used to be Albert through a promo or something, I'm sure it would have been less of an issue and less "taboo" for the crowd to chant. Also, wrestling, as a live art form, is different from a movie. If I have something to say during a wrestling show, I can chant or whatever and affect the product, but that won't do a thing to a static movie. Chants are part of the business, and they have changed things. "Rocky Sucks" made The Rock what he is today. That's one of the pitfalls of dealing with the form. I don't think fans should aim to be obnoxious--I hate the "What" chants--but by the same token, WWE could be filling these gaps if they pleased.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Jul 8, 2013 22:37:52 GMT -5
I resent the implication that they did it because they were smarks.I mean who watches indie wrestling,Smarks,but you don't see them chanting for {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Spoiler Mike Quackenbush and Chuck Taylor when {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Spoiler Los Ice Creams wrestle I'm now mad at my weak willpower when it comes to spoilers.
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Jul 8, 2013 22:38:11 GMT -5
I resent the implication that they did it because they were smarks.I mean who watches indie wrestling,Smarks,but you don't see them chanting for {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Spoiler Mike Quackenbush and Chuck Taylor when {Spoiler}{Spoiler}Spoiler Los Ice Creams wrestle I didn't know. WHY DID I CLICK THE SPOILERS! I WARNED YOU!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 22:39:45 GMT -5
1. People watching TV see a wrestler (who is advertised time and time again). 2. People ask "Who is that wrestler?" 3. People use the internets to conduct research. 4. Wikipedia tells them it's the same guy who played Husky Harris. It's actually simpler than it would seem. With the rise of twitter as a wrestling fandom mechanism, more and more fans are now internet fans, no matter how casual they may be. I honestly didn't think about it like that. I guess wrestling has changed a lot with what it was like when I grew up, though that was right around when this whole Internet craze first began, so I didn't frequent any wrestling sites outside of wwf.com (to see PPV results the day after). But even when I did start going onto wrestling boards and finding out all this, I would never think to go, "You know what I should do? Chant the debuting guy's former ring name!" Mainly because I don't see the point in doing so. It's a little more than just those four steps. Not everyone is going to look that up, natch, but a lot of people know someone who's more into it and will. I know I do, and I know a few others that do, too. Enough people like that go to a show, talk to other people in the audience, and all of a sudden you've got a nascent crowd chant on your hands. Crowds are very hard to control these days.
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Greer
Unicron
Points. Don't. Matter.
Posts: 3,199
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Post by Greer on Jul 8, 2013 22:39:51 GMT -5
It's because Husky Harris is easy to chant. There's a reason nobody chants "Michael McGillicutty" at Axel.
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stealthamo
King Koopa
Something stupid
#AJAll
Posts: 11,247
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Post by stealthamo on Jul 8, 2013 22:39:56 GMT -5
It wouldn't be hard at all to transition the characters though. "That's what THEY called me before my eyes were opened, I was once like you, a sheep, lost and following along; but I have answered the riddle, and I see the truth. I have been reborn through blood and fire and have become what you see before you now. Chant that name if you wish, it is the name of a dead man, a lost little lamb that had to be slaughtered to light the way, but I am the man who has his eyes open, the taunts of the blind are meaningless, and one by one, your eyes will be open too.." Or something thereabouts. Just one promo to bury the past and show this is a different guy. Easy. The question is whether or not they'll actually do that. They didn't with Tensai, and I kinda believe that that (in combination with him getting absolutely no reaction) is what got him de-pushed. On the other hand, they transitioned McGillicutty to Axel and there have been no chants since then (though McGillicutty is pretty tough to chant, and tonight may have been the birth of Christian McGillicutty, but that's beside the point). Hopefully they'll acknowledge that once was Husky Harris, but now he's not.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2013 22:40:20 GMT -5
Eh. They should just have Bray Wyatt reference that he was in a promo and say that he's a new man or something. It's not that big of a deal even if it keeps happening. But really, in a way, aren't we all "Husky Harris?" *steps forward* I'm Husky Harris. *stands* No, I'M Husky Harris.
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