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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 15, 2013 10:51:42 GMT -5
The hate directed at RVD due to TNA's promotional incompetence is mind blowing to me. It makes me laugh when these threads come up like "If Cena/Orton/Punk were in TNA would it matter?" The answer is no. First off, I'd bet most TNA fans don't even like John Cena and do not want to see him. Seriously, Randy Orton jolting TNA's ratings? The guy actively depresses WWE's ratings when he's on top. Punk would be much the same way. TNA has a way of turning anyone into crap.
People harp too much on someone's ability to draw ratings. Promotions have to be on some semblance of equal footing for anyone defecting to a company to really matter. The weird aspect of the RVD hate is that people actively ignore the positives he did in his first year in TNA: The Impact where he beat Hardy and Styles to win the title is one of the single best TNA shows ever, the BaseBrawl show in Brooklyn he headlined was one of TNA's bigger gates in North America, and the Whole F'N Show TV special was also a terrific show headlined by RVD. The final image of that show (RVD left in a pool of fake blood) was certainly a metaphor for things to come, as RVD's career more or less devolved into a bloody heap. This is a company that couldn't even manage his dates properly enough to do a sustained build to an RVD/Angle match on PPV!
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Post by snopes on Jul 15, 2013 11:10:32 GMT -5
Look, believe it or not TNA is just horrifyingly bland. The writing sucks, the promos suck, the audience sucks, the commentary sucks.
They have money and spend it poorly. I have always believed TNA would be far more respected if it weren't on TV. You cannot compete with Vince. Those dog days are done. So do the logical thing and remain a cultlike branch of wrestling, the island of misfit toys.
Hogan won't save you, nor will angle foley flair nash hardy tazz etc. Nor will traveling. Nobody cares because yor product is so shabbily put together. Thank goodness RVD got out. Always liked Van Dam.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 15, 2013 11:16:41 GMT -5
Look, believe it or not TNA is just horrifyingly bland. The writing sucks, the promos suck, the audience sucks, the commentary sucks. They have money and spend it poorly. I have always believed TNA would be far more respected if it weren't on TV. You cannot compete with Vince. Those dog days are done. So do the logical thing and remain a cultlike branch of wrestling, the island of misfit toys. Hogan won't save you, nor will angle foley flair nash hardy tazz etc. Nor will traveling. Nobody cares because yor product is so shabbily put together. Thank goodness RVD got out. Always liked Van Dam. How about voicing opinions in non-caustic ways that won't derail entire possible threads? Cut it out and converse like an adult.
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Post by snopes on Jul 15, 2013 11:23:23 GMT -5
Look, believe it or not TNA is just horrifyingly bland. The writing sucks, the promos suck, the audience sucks, the commentary sucks. They have money and spend it poorly. I have always believed TNA would be far more respected if it weren't on TV. You cannot compete with Vince. Those dog days are done. So do the logical thing and remain a cultlike branch of wrestling, the island of misfit toys. Hogan won't save you, nor will angle foley flair nash hardy tazz etc. Nor will traveling. Nobody cares because yor product is so shabbily put together. Thank goodness RVD got out. Always liked Van Dam. How about voicing opinions in non-caustic ways that won't derail entire possible threads? Cut it out and converse like an adult. You don't agree or ever felt the way I put it? I want to like TNA, I do, trust me. It can be frustrating as heck sometimes though. I can see why Rob appeared disinterested there. We must take vocal action to change the landscape! The fans must speak!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 11:29:48 GMT -5
Thing is, as was said before, TNA's ratings continue not to budge much; some of that is their own doing (we've all spent years pointing out how bad TNA is at hyping and promoting itself...even if you're like me and don't think Vince McMahon is any sort of creative genius, you can't knock the guy's ability to promote pro wrestling shows), and some of that is the nature of the industry today, where nothing is really THAT popular anymore, or at least not even sniffing the levels achieved by Hulkamania, the nWo, and the Austin/Rock era. But whatever the root cause, I think it goes back to what a number of people have also said TNA should've spent years doing: get ahead of the curve when it comes to "shocking signings", and just basically ignore them. They don't pop ratings, they cost money, and those guys are major threats to jump back to WWE in an instant. That isn't to say don't sign ANY ex-WWE guys, or older big stars; Sting has mostly been fine in his role as elder statesman in TNA, Angle is a great hand to keep around (well, ignoring his Twitter use and things like that, just focusing on his wrestling), guys like Christian and Bully Ray have been great, and sometimes it's good to take a chance on guys that WWE never fully utilized, like what they're hopefully beginning to do with DOC/Gallows. There's nothing bad about it in and of itself, but you should sign these guys with a creative idea in mind, like "I can book this guy in a long term angle with some of our current wrestlers", or "this guy is a great hand to have on the roster, he'll be popular and can put so-and-so over", etc. The problem exists when these guys are signed seemingly "just because they're there". Nothing really comes of that. Agreed. I think TNA, whether due to financial reasons or otherwise, are probably in their best place now as they have an established roster and don't intend on adding any "big names" to it. Instead they are pushing the existing talent. They could probably afford to trim even more fat from their roster, but they have done well not to go out and get anyone with WWE on their resume the last two years, other than (as you mentioned) guys that WWE got rid of that may have some upside (Doc, Knux, etc). The problem with RVD in TNA during 2010 and 2011 was the problem most talent had; Vince Russo. They took the hottest babyface in North America in 2009 and turned him heel within eight months (Hardy). They looked to have created their own top heel and turned him babyface for no reason (Anderson). I actually thought RVD in 2010 was pushed better than anyone else in the company as he wasn't a victim of hot shot booking or pointless turns. Once the writing changed in 2012, RVD was put into a much better role for this stage in his career, which was a big name that still won matches but jobbed a lot as well. That is a role he will probably fall into again in the WWE, but since it is the WWE, I'm sure no one will bat an eye.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jul 15, 2013 11:43:27 GMT -5
How about voicing opinions in non-caustic ways that won't derail entire possible threads? Cut it out and converse like an adult. You don't agree or ever felt the way I put it? I want to like TNA, I do, trust me. It can be frustrating as heck sometimes though. I can see why Rob appeared disinterested there. We must take vocal action to change the landscape! The fans must speak! Guess what? Most people on here agree with you and voice their dissatisfaction without denigrating everything about the product. That said, RVD is not in the right, he was paid a lot of money to act like a professional, he did not and there is no justification for it. Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Sting, Christian, they were all mishandled and even outright depushed at some point during their runs, but no-one has ever accused them of halfassing it the way they have RVD... You know why? Because they didn't because they're professionals. He decided he was a rockstar and is above the rest of the roster and when he was asked to try and help get guys onto the level he imagines himself, he became lazy and disinterested unless he was working with a friend like Jerry Lynn. TNA's booking may not have been great, but RVD did nothing after his first few months to justify a continued push. Did he deliver any great promos and matches that elevated the product and wowed the audience? Not really, so he deserves a good portion of the blame for his run being so underwhelming.
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Post by snopes on Jul 15, 2013 11:46:32 GMT -5
You don't agree or ever felt the way I put it? I want to like TNA, I do, trust me. It can be frustrating as heck sometimes though. I can see why Rob appeared disinterested there. We must take vocal action to change the landscape! The fans must speak! Guess what? Most people on here agree with you and voice their dissatisfaction without denigrating everything about the product. That said, RVD is not in the right, he was paid a lot of money to act like a professional, he did not and there is no justification for it. Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Sting, Christian, they were all mishandled and even outright depushed at some point during their runs, but no-one has ever accused them of halfassing it the way they have RVD... You know why? Because they didn't because they're professionals. He decided he was a rockstar and is above the rest of the roster and when he was asked to try and help get guys onto the level he imagines himself, he became lazy and disinterested unless he was working with a friend like Jerry Lynn. TNA's booking may not have been great, but RVD did nothing after his first few months to justify a continued push. Did he deliver any great promos and matches that elevated the product and wowed the audience? Not really, so he deserves a good portion of the blame for his run being so underwhelming. That's a great way of putting it. Do you think part of his egotism was knowing all along he was welcome back to the E when his TNA contract expired?
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jul 15, 2013 12:01:45 GMT -5
That's a great way of putting it. Do you think part of his egotism was knowing all along he was welcome back to the E when his TNA contract expired? Quite possibly, he left on good terms and appeared with them on oneoff appearance deals afterward. Like Flair, I don't think he would have acted the way he did if TNA was his only option.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jul 15, 2013 16:32:55 GMT -5
TNA can only blame themselves for why RVD or anybody else for that matter. Because they booked them all in ways that even if the WWE did it it wouldn't draw a dung beetle to a pile of crap. I mean lets compare them.
RVD debuts in TNA unannounced beats Sting in no time. followed by a ten min beat down by Sting and a bat. What is wrong with this? Everything. How do you expect fans to care about RVD when he made to look at a jackass? How do you expect to draw ratings when you don't hint that he was coming? How do you expect to draw big ratings ever when you never advertise a high profile match? They did this with RVD all the time. First match you face STING without build? Going against the advertise return of Bret Hart to the WWE for the first time in 15 years. Then you do the same with facing AJ for the belt. As well as facing Samoa Joe.
Now look at the WWE. RVD is announced a month before he shows up. Fans knew what match he was in and everything. Plus you put him in the Main Event in Philly, where anybody from ECW will be over like rover. That's the biggest difference with the WWE and TNA. Knowing how to build something up. It's not because they have more TV time. It's just what they do.
Jeff Hardy was the same thing. No build no nothing. Against dream matches getting put on free TV without reason or hype.
Look at the whole Kurt Angle signing and build to that years Bound for Glory. Angle is said to sign. Good start. Sting is set to face Jarrett. For this whole month. We see no Sting. Joe steal the belt from Jarrett. for weeks Jarrett is chasing Joe to get his belt back. Angle is announced as the special enforcer in Jarrett's match against Sting which by then most fans forgot Jarrett was even facing Sting. Because on TV you could have sworn Jarrett was facing Joe. So Joe at this PPV while spending all month taunting Jarrett. Is put in a random monster ball match. The greatest segment in TNA history at the time was Angle headbutting Joe, That also had to point at this time. Only to draw some interest for the Smark crowd who already wanted to see these two.
Now next Angle debuts in a free TV match against Abyss. Again big match free TV. When that should have been on PPV. Angle first match should have been on PPV much like Hogan was in WCW and how RVD first match back in the WWE was. That way fans see it as ok this is big that he is hear.
Hogan is not drawing because NO fans gives a crap about Hogan cutting a promo every week. Hogan is worthless as a on screen personality unless he is active. Fans are not going "I can't wait to see what Hogan says this week." No they want Hogan doing what made the guy famous. Which he can not do. So the only money to be made with Hogan is signing Autographs.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 15, 2013 17:30:19 GMT -5
Rob Van Dam This theme f***ing blew Rob Van Dam This theme f***ing blew Shitty lyrics Shitty music Savin grace was was easy to make fun of..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 18:08:17 GMT -5
Didn't they bring RVD into TNA with no hype and then have Sting bludgeon him with a baseball bat? Hahahahahahahah wait....yeah that actually is what happened. In fact, I think they booked RVD/Sting that night, RVD beat him with the Rolling Thunder in 2 seconds, THEN Sting beat him with a bat. For like 10 minutes, while security was holding Hogan back from stopping it. Hahahahahahah
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Glitch
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Post by Glitch on Jul 15, 2013 18:47:07 GMT -5
When they did hype up a match for him, it was to squash Desmond Wolfe.
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SOR
Unicron
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Post by SOR on Jul 15, 2013 22:29:54 GMT -5
TNA can only blame themselves for why RVD or anybody else for that matter. Because they booked them all in ways that even if the WWE did it it wouldn't draw a dung beetle to a pile of crap. I mean lets compare them. RVD debuts in TNA unannounced beats Sting in no time. followed by a ten min beat down by Sting and a bat. What is wrong with this? Everything. How do you expect fans to care about RVD when he made to look at a jackass? How do you expect to draw ratings when you don't hint that he was coming? How do you expect to draw big ratings ever when you never advertise a high profile match? They did this with RVD all the time. First match you face STING without build? Going against the advertise return of Bret Hart to the WWE for the first time in 15 years. Then you do the same with facing AJ for the belt. As well as facing Samoa Joe. Now look at the WWE. RVD is announced a month before he shows up. Fans knew what match he was in and everything. Plus you put him in the Main Event in Philly, where anybody from ECW will be over like rover. That's the biggest difference with the WWE and TNA. Knowing how to build something up. It's not because they have more TV time. It's just what they do. Jeff Hardy was the same thing. No build no nothing. Against dream matches getting put on free TV without reason or hype. Look at the whole Kurt Angle signing and build to that years Bound for Glory. Angle is said to sign. Good start. Sting is set to face Jarrett. For this whole month. We see no Sting. Joe steal the belt from Jarrett. for weeks Jarrett is chasing Joe to get his belt back. Angle is announced as the special enforcer in Jarrett's match against Sting which by then most fans forgot Jarrett was even facing Sting. Because on TV you could have sworn Jarrett was facing Joe. So Joe at this PPV while spending all month taunting Jarrett. Is put in a random monster ball match. The greatest segment in TNA history at the time was Angle headbutting Joe, That also had to point at this time. Only to draw some interest for the Smark crowd who already wanted to see these two. Now next Angle debuts in a free TV match against Abyss. Again big match free TV. When that should have been on PPV. Angle first match should have been on PPV much like Hogan was in WCW and how RVD first match back in the WWE was. That way fans see it as ok this is big that he is hear. Hogan is not drawing because NO fans gives a crap about Hogan cutting a promo every week. Hogan is worthless as a on screen personality unless he is active. Fans are not going "I can't wait to see what Hogan says this week." No they want Hogan doing what made the guy famous. Which he can not do. So the only money to be made with Hogan is signing Autographs. The only thing I agree with you on is the debut of RVD. What I would of done was had RVD advertised a couple weeks prior and on the day of the show have Sting come out and talk about how there's no room for RVD in TNA. RVD comes out the two have a stare down and a feud starts. RVD eventually wins the feud and it's happy days. The debut of everyone else has been fine though (Except maybe Flair) Jeff Hardy running down on the Hogan debut show was a great shock and it really adds to the "Anything can happen on live TV" thing that TNA likes to promote. Angle's debut was great and the wrestling world was on fire when he was announced as the guy. Christian, Booker T and a number of others had great debuts also. WWE has messed up with guys before. Lets give TNA the benefit of the doubt with Van Dam's debut.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jul 15, 2013 22:46:51 GMT -5
TNA can only blame themselves for why RVD or anybody else for that matter. Because they booked them all in ways that even if the WWE did it it wouldn't draw a dung beetle to a pile of crap. I mean lets compare them. RVD debuts in TNA unannounced beats Sting in no time. followed by a ten min beat down by Sting and a bat. What is wrong with this? Everything. How do you expect fans to care about RVD when he made to look at a jackass? How do you expect to draw ratings when you don't hint that he was coming? How do you expect to draw big ratings ever when you never advertise a high profile match? They did this with RVD all the time. First match you face STING without build? Going against the advertise return of Bret Hart to the WWE for the first time in 15 years. Then you do the same with facing AJ for the belt. As well as facing Samoa Joe. Now look at the WWE. RVD is announced a month before he shows up. Fans knew what match he was in and everything. Plus you put him in the Main Event in Philly, where anybody from ECW will be over like rover. That's the biggest difference with the WWE and TNA. Knowing how to build something up. It's not because they have more TV time. It's just what they do. Jeff Hardy was the same thing. No build no nothing. Against dream matches getting put on free TV without reason or hype. Look at the whole Kurt Angle signing and build to that years Bound for Glory. Angle is said to sign. Good start. Sting is set to face Jarrett. For this whole month. We see no Sting. Joe steal the belt from Jarrett. for weeks Jarrett is chasing Joe to get his belt back. Angle is announced as the special enforcer in Jarrett's match against Sting which by then most fans forgot Jarrett was even facing Sting. Because on TV you could have sworn Jarrett was facing Joe. So Joe at this PPV while spending all month taunting Jarrett. Is put in a random monster ball match. The greatest segment in TNA history at the time was Angle headbutting Joe, That also had to point at this time. Only to draw some interest for the Smark crowd who already wanted to see these two. Now next Angle debuts in a free TV match against Abyss. Again big match free TV. When that should have been on PPV. Angle first match should have been on PPV much like Hogan was in WCW and how RVD first match back in the WWE was. That way fans see it as ok this is big that he is hear. Hogan is not drawing because NO fans gives a crap about Hogan cutting a promo every week. Hogan is worthless as a on screen personality unless he is active. Fans are not going "I can't wait to see what Hogan says this week." No they want Hogan doing what made the guy famous. Which he can not do. So the only money to be made with Hogan is signing Autographs. The only thing I agree with you on is the debut of RVD. What I would of done was had RVD advertised a couple weeks prior and on the day of the show have Sting come out and talk about how there's no room for RVD in TNA. RVD comes out the two have a stare down and a feud starts. RVD eventually wins the feud and it's happy days. The debut of everyone else has been fine though (Except maybe Flair) Jeff Hardy running down on the Hogan debut show was a great shock and it really adds to the "Anything can happen on live TV" thing that TNA likes to promote. Angle's debut was great and the wrestling world was on fire when he was announced as the guy. Christian, Booker T and a number of others had great debuts also. WWE has messed up with guys before. Lets give TNA the benefit of the doubt with Van Dam's debut. Ok Angle was done right in some ways it did get the wrestling world talking but did it could been so much more then what it ended up being. It could have been a REAL difference maker. What you are calling great should been more in the numbers. But because they didn't do anything to make it a big deal. Booker T quickly because another guy. As did everyone else instead of being a big deal. The point is these big name should been different makers but they where not. So no they where not that great.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 15, 2013 22:48:12 GMT -5
Nobody would make any kind of impact in TNA. Once they realize that, they maybe able to go further.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 23:45:32 GMT -5
Haha RVD just had a better match on Raw than he had during his entire TNA run.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Jul 16, 2013 0:59:56 GMT -5
Another funny thing is people claiming to be fans of wrestlers but then refusing to follow them to other promotions. A lot of folks aren't fans of wrestlers unless they work in a company they like. They'll straight up refuse to watch them anywhere else but keep begging that wrestler to come back to the promotion they like. People are funny. I am a big fan of Mike Myers. That doesn't mean I want to see "The Love Guru." Talent is one thing. But what really matters is the vehicle they're apart of.
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Post by celticjobber on Jul 16, 2013 1:26:12 GMT -5
From Monday's Wrestling Observer news update:
"--There was a backstage joke last night that the crowd in Philadelphia was larger than the total crowd in all the years combined that RVD worked for TNA."
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Jul 16, 2013 2:39:52 GMT -5
From Monday's Wrestling Observer news update: "--There was a backstage joke last night that the crowd in Philadelphia was larger than the total crowd in all the years combined that RVD worked for TNA." This arrogance from WWE is why I hope TNA one day overtakes them.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 16, 2013 2:52:42 GMT -5
From Monday's Wrestling Observer news update: "--There was a backstage joke last night that the crowd in Philadelphia was larger than the total crowd in all the years combined that RVD worked for TNA." This arrogance from WWE is why I hope TNA one day overtakes them. Given all of the shots they've taken at WWE over the years, turnabout is fair play. At least they didn't do it on the air like TNA did with VKM and other similarly petty insults.
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