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Post by gnr123 on Aug 12, 2013 12:56:33 GMT -5
Ah, the year that was 2011 TNA. The "Wrestling Matter's" rebranding, the billboards in Stanford, cashing in on CM Punk's popularity. Plus the Victory Road debacle. And signing Matt Hardy. And people wonder why I don't watch TNA anymore, this was it.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Aug 12, 2013 17:16:08 GMT -5
Ah, the year that was 2011 TNA. The "Wrestling Matter's" rebranding, the billboards in Stanford, cashing in on CM Punk's popularity. Plus the Victory Road debacle. And signing Matt Hardy. And people wonder why I don't watch TNA anymore, this was it. Not to be rude but if you don't watch TNA anymore what is the point in posting on the TNA board? If you haven't watched since 2011 how do you even know if you dislike it anymore?
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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Aug 12, 2013 17:21:28 GMT -5
If you haven't watched since 2011 how do you even know if you dislike it anymore? This right here is why I get mad at so many people in this section of the forum, they come in and bash the product, say they haven't watched since god knows when and then when you bring up the fact that they clearly don't know what they're talking about they come off with some comment about how they're just playing and joking around or that they read what's going on. Gnr, you've always seemed like a stand up guy and this isn't directed at you, it's just something I see a lot in the TNA section and it really gets on my nerves as people are making judgments about a product and discussing a product that they have no base in and don't watch.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 17:27:37 GMT -5
LOL this is pathetic. Congrats Dixie, you really spotted a talent and made a star from that tattooed kid. Time to cash in on that.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Aug 12, 2013 17:41:36 GMT -5
If you haven't watched since 2011 how do you even know if you dislike it anymore? This right here is why I get mad at so many people in this section of the forum, they come in and bash the product, say they haven't watched since god knows when and then when you bring up the fact that they clearly don't know what they're talking about they come off with some comment about how they're just playing and joking around or that they read what's going on. Gnr, you've always seemed like a stand up guy and this isn't directed at you, it's just something I see a lot in the TNA section and it really gets on my nerves as people are making judgments about a product and discussing a product that they have no base in and don't watch. I certainly don't disagree with you but just something I feel is worth bringing up. I understand the frustration but at times, it gets directed to people who don't fall into that category. The people that make those kind of comments aren't even the majority anymore. Again, don't disagree with the general point you are making, just making an observation.
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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Aug 12, 2013 17:54:28 GMT -5
This right here is why I get mad at so many people in this section of the forum, they come in and bash the product, say they haven't watched since god knows when and then when you bring up the fact that they clearly don't know what they're talking about they come off with some comment about how they're just playing and joking around or that they read what's going on. Gnr, you've always seemed like a stand up guy and this isn't directed at you, it's just something I see a lot in the TNA section and it really gets on my nerves as people are making judgments about a product and discussing a product that they have no base in and don't watch. I certainly don't disagree with you but just something I feel is worth bringing up. I understand the frustration but at times, it gets directed to people who don't fall into that category. The people that make those kind of comments aren't even the majority anymore. Again, don't disagree with the general point you are making, just making an observation. I guess you're right however I feel like there's always at least one and mixed in with all the other jokes and discussion it just feels like it's a lot. There did used to be more of this and I agree it's got better lately but mixed in with all the thread locking, arguing and people going off topic in literally every thread this section still feels like it's full of flamers who either don't watch the current product or do watch the current product because they're self-loathing and need something to hate on. Last I'll say on the matter, I hate threads being mega-derailed and I'm totally being a part of it now
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Post by gnr123 on Aug 12, 2013 18:13:46 GMT -5
Not to derail the thread, but I would like TNA to succeed. It would be great to see competition for WWE, but with TNA it's just not to be IMO. It's just that they have no top guy, they continue to book nonsensical stable storyline's, they continue to promote Hulk Hogan (even though he hasn't done anything substantial for TNA). Not to mention they sign Brooke Hogan when it's obvious she has no passion for wrestling.
Who do they have they has a lot of potential to be a future top guy? Who do they have that's young enough to carry TNA to the future?
TNA just will never go anywhere IMO, they'll always been the distant number two company in the US. They have tried EVERYTHING and not one thing has worked. Hell, they have the supposed "Babe Ruth of professional wrestling" Hulk Hogan and he still couldn't get them a substantial ratings boost. They singed Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy, Booker T, Mick Foley, Ken Anderson, Ric Flair, RVD, Chavo Guerrero, Kevin Nash and even Brooke Hogan (yeah, I'm joking on that one). And none of them have brought in any substantial rating's boost for the company.
What sucks even more is that guy's like Roode, Storm, Styles and Daniels have wasted their careers in TNA and never really amounted to anything. Sure, they were given the top belt a few times, but where are they now? None of them are big stars or draws for that matter, their all just "there." Hell, they have no main draw, no top face that's a guaranteed money maker and mainstay main eventer. Sure, they build guys like Bobby Roode and Austin Aries up, but than their thrown to the waste side for Hulk Hogan's annual ego-trip. They chew these kid's career's up and they spit them out. And they'll never be able to work in front of a big crowd of 20,000 or more. They'll never have thousand's of people chanting their name or buying their merchandise.
They have no Cena, no Austin, no Hogan. They have no top face, no central character. And I feel like that's the biggest problem of all. Professional wrestling is, in essence, a television show. With every television show, there is a min character the show is built around. The Simpson family, SpongeBob, The Griffins, Beavis and Butthead, Jerry Seinfeld, Frasier Crane (yeah, I don't watch much modern television). But, they all have one thing in common, their all central characters. With WWE, it's John Cena. The company is based around him and heels are built up to job to him in order to make him loo stronger.
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Post by jason1980s on Aug 12, 2013 18:28:38 GMT -5
Great post gnr123.
To me TNA is like an indy promotion that just happens to have a lot of money to bring in bigger names like Bischoff and Hogan and they have a TV show. There are indy promotions nowadays that are just like TNA. There was one about a year ago that had Piper and Hogan on a show. Now there is one with Jim Ross, Jerry Lawler, Faarooq and Bradshaw, Hall and Nash. Now maybe TNA can afford big names throughout the year but it's still very similar in having the indy feel to it yet being able to bring in big names.
I wouldn't even classify them as #2 promotion. Today it's only WWE whether it's good or bad. Being considered a #2 company should mean that they are competition of some sort and TNA isn't competition. The only way they could be considered competition is if Vince bought TNA (which he probably would feel would be beneath him) and did shows like Monday Night Wars and in this case it would be purely kayfabe.
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TGM
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Post by TGM on Aug 12, 2013 18:57:44 GMT -5
LOL this is pathetic. Congrats Dixie, you really spotted a talent and made a star from that tattooed kid. Time to cash in on that. Yes how stupid of TNA to try and cash in on the biggest star in the business...
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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Aug 12, 2013 19:01:51 GMT -5
Not to derail the thread, but I would like TNA to succeed. It would be great to see competition for WWE, but with TNA it's just not to be IMO. It's just that they have no top guy, they continue to book nonsensical stable storyline's, they continue to promote Hulk Hogan (even though he hasn't done anything substantial for TNA). Not to mention they sign Brooke Hogan when it's obvious she has no passion for wrestling. I fail to see how their current storylines are nonsensical, you may disliked them or think they've gone on for too long but if you actually followed the product, they do make sense. Can they be nitpicked? At some points yes but that's true with everything. Magnus, Sabin, EY, Gunner, Jay Bradley, Jessie Godderz, Manik and Zema Ion are among some of the guys under 35 who have the ability to become great and be the future of TNA. Austin, HHH, Foley and others didn't win the title till they were around their 30s so I don't see why it's such a struggle to believe these guys could go on to do the same and possibly become breakout stars for TNA. And what's wrong with being the number 2 promotion? A lot of people who love TNA, myself included, know that TNA is the number two promotion and accept that without letting it sour our enjoyment of the product. It's your beef that they're not number 1 and you guys that make a big deal of it, it's a non-issue. The signings mean nothing, the comparison is pointless because right now TNA is 11 years old and WWE is an institution that's been around for over 30 and it's going to take many many years for TNA to become anything like the WWE is today, it's not a race and I don't see why so many people believe it is, TNA not being a worldwide mega power today or yesterday is nothing, them trying their best and being #2 is just fine, growth will happen naturally. This is a "TNA aren't pushing my favorite" argument and it sucks, those guys have been given their time on top and in Roode's and AJ's case extended periods and they've drawn no better than the guys we've had since. They don't chew these kids careers up and spit them out, they give them a place to work, showcase their skills and live their dream. Do you think if they weren't in TNA right now they'd all be in the WWE earning big bucks and being on top of the world? Of course not because if that were true that's where they'd all be and TNA wouldn't exist at all. TNA is growing right now, they're attempting to move forward and going on the road is a big step in that, but as I've said before they're still a sapling standing beside a mighty oak. Maybe you're right, maybe the guys you listed never will wrestle in front of 20,000 but if they're paving the way for 10 years down the line the guys who come up under them to do that under the TNA brand and are the guys who made TNA and carried it through it's teething stage to the promised land would their career really have been a waste? And hundreds and hundreds of people hate the John Cena show. You know Friends, Sons of Anarchy, Game of Thrones, Babylon 5, Big Bang Theory and as you've mentioned The Simpsons and Family Guy not to mention countless others have multiple main characters and if we look at TNA right now we've got The MEM and Aces and Eights as "The Main Characters" not to mention Roode, Aries and AJ as Main Characters not included in the main plot at the moment. If we look at this like a TV show then you have the A plot and then the B plot and sometimes the C plot and you can't have all your characters involved in the A plot hence why we've not got Aries/Roode/Styles/Hardy/Daniels etc all crammed up and involved in the main story line. Aces and Eights and MEM are the central characters right now and that will change as the stories and creative direction dictates.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 19:02:18 GMT -5
LOL this is pathetic. Congrats Dixie, you really spotted a talent and made a star from that tattooed kid. Time to cash in on that. Yes how stupid of TNA to try and cash in on the biggest star in the business... I'm sure they made plenty of money from all those great classics he had in TNA. Like the one where... oh and the one against... in... Yeah didn't happened. I hope a Punk TNA DVD is in the making, a 3 DVD boxset like the Braden Walker WWE career retrospective.
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TGM
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Post by TGM on Aug 12, 2013 19:08:12 GMT -5
Yes how stupid of TNA to try and cash in on the biggest star in the business... I'm sure they made plenty of money from all those great classics he had in TNA. Like the one where... oh and the one against... in... Yeah didn't happened. I hope a Punk TNA DVD is in the making, a 3 DVD boxset like the Braden Walker WWE career retrospective. That's not the point. TNA had footage of Punk and wrestling fans wanted to see Punk, whatever he was doing. Most matches on his dvd were hardly classics but it sold extremely well. Regardless if the TNA footage sold well, it smart business to put it up for sale.
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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Aug 12, 2013 19:12:43 GMT -5
Yes how stupid of TNA to try and cash in on the biggest star in the business... I'm sure they made plenty of money from all those great classics he had in TNA. Like the one where... oh and the one against... in... Yeah didn't happened. I hope a Punk TNA DVD is in the making, a 3 DVD boxset like the Braden Walker WWE career retrospective. A lot of fans of TNA who have followed them from the beginning remember that period of Punks career and actually enjoyed his work with Raven and as a member of The Gathering with Julio Deniro. Classic matches? No I guess not but I guess it was a nice little nostalgia trip for some people and if it made them cash then why the hell not? It would be stupid for them not to have cashed in on the hottest man in wrestling at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 19:17:04 GMT -5
Edit: /cut
In the end, a classic LOL TNA situation, as the thread says. Not my problem, there are always apologists for everything.
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SOR
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Post by SOR on Aug 12, 2013 21:20:16 GMT -5
LOL this is pathetic. Congrats Dixie, you really spotted a talent and made a star from that tattooed kid. Time to cash in on that. Ridiculous statement. If you were an indy promoter and 10 years ago you had CM Punk for a one off appearance you wouldn't try and shill that to try and make some money? If not, you're a terrible business person. As for Punk hating TNA. The dude should be grateful they gave him an opportunity in the first place he had been in the business for like 4 years at that point and got some great exposure from TNA. I guess it's like an Actor getting a small role on TV how often do you hear Actors badmouthing their first small part in a TV Show? Never. I certainly don't disagree with you but just something I feel is worth bringing up. I understand the frustration but at times, it gets directed to people who don't fall into that category. The people that make those kind of comments aren't even the majority anymore. Again, don't disagree with the general point you are making, just making an observation. I guess you're right however I feel like there's always at least one and mixed in with all the other jokes and discussion it just feels like it's a lot. There did used to be more of this and I agree it's got better lately but mixed in with all the thread locking, arguing and people going off topic in literally every thread this section still feels like it's full of flamers who either don't watch the current product or do watch the current product because they're self-loathing and need something to hate on. Last I'll say on the matter, I hate threads being mega-derailed and I'm totally being a part of it now To evidence the self loathing thing. If you check the posters in the TNA thread the three or four highest posters in the Impact threads are always the guys who seemingly hate TNA and have very little good to say. I was looking back at the opinions of TNA BFG 2010 a couple of days ago and those same people were the highest posters back in 2010 also. 3 years of just being negative and hating on a product, why continue to watch? Not to derail the thread, but I would like TNA to succeed. It would be great to see competition for WWE, but with TNA it's just not to be IMO. It's just that they have no top guy, they continue to book nonsensical stable storyline's, they continue to promote Hulk Hogan (even though he hasn't done anything substantial for TNA). Not to mention they sign Brooke Hogan when it's obvious she has no passion for wrestling. Who do they have they has a lot of potential to be a future top guy? Who do they have that's young enough to carry TNA to the future? TNA just will never go anywhere IMO, they'll always been the distant number two company in the US. They have tried EVERYTHING and not one thing has worked. Hell, they have the supposed "Babe Ruth of professional wrestling" Hulk Hogan and he still couldn't get them a substantial ratings boost. They singed Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy, Booker T, Mick Foley, Ken Anderson, Ric Flair, RVD, Chavo Guerrero, Kevin Nash and even Brooke Hogan (yeah, I'm joking on that one). And none of them have brought in any substantial rating's boost for the company. What sucks even more is that guy's like Roode, Storm, Styles and Daniels have wasted their careers in TNA and never really amounted to anything. Sure, they were given the top belt a few times, but where are they now? None of them are big stars or draws for that matter, their all just "there." Hell, they have no main draw, no top face that's a guaranteed money maker and mainstay main eventer. Sure, they build guys like Bobby Roode and Austin Aries up, but than their thrown to the waste side for Hulk Hogan's annual ego-trip. They chew these kid's career's up and they spit them out. And they'll never be able to work in front of a big crowd of 20,000 or more. They'll never have thousand's of people chanting their name or buying their merchandise. They have no Cena, no Austin, no Hogan. They have no top face, no central character. And I feel like that's the biggest problem of all. Professional wrestling is, in essence, a television show. With every television show, there is a min character the show is built around. The Simpson family, SpongeBob, The Griffins, Beavis and Butthead, Jerry Seinfeld, Frasier Crane (yeah, I don't watch much modern television). But, they all have one thing in common, their all central characters. With WWE, it's John Cena. The company is based around him and heels are built up to job to him in order to make him loo stronger. 1. You clearly don't watch the product. Top guys? Most of TNA's top guys are 30-35. The current World Heavyweight Champion is 31. Considering the shelf life of most wrestlers a guy like AJ Styles could be TNA's top guy still 10 years from now. Ditto for Aries, Roode etc. Everytime they try and push someone new (Sabin is a great example) people complain that he's too small, he's not Daniels, He only got his push because of his girlfriend etc etc etc 2. You state TNA will never go anywhere but compare 2002 with 2013. Hell, compare 2007 with 2013. TNA has even grown since 2010 although the TNA haters won't admit it but it has. As for the ratings gain, A quick google search will lead you to discover that the initial episode of TNA on Spike TV was a 0.8 TNA now averages about a 1.1 but can sometimes go as high as 1.3. That is growth. 3. You mean the same Roode, Storm, Styles and Daniels who would be wrestling in the independents today in front of 150 people if it wasn't for TNA? Without TNA you never have any of these guys on National TV. They all die down in the indies never to be seen again. You say TNA ruins careers I ask you how. You talk about Aries and Roode being thrown to the side but how? Aries and Roode are about to enter a main event feud. AJ Styles is being built as the guy to end Aces and Eights and Bad Influences have been receiving a steady Upper Midcard push for months now. None of them have been thrown to the waste side, as a matter of fact I can't think of a TNA World Champion who isn't still a main eventer to this day (If they are in the company) As for working in front of big crowds. Lockdown this year had 10,000. TNA Impact at Wembley had around the same. International House Shows draw over 5000 generally and their TV week to week is between 3-5 thousand. TNA Bound For Glory has already sold about 3000 tickets and we haven't even got an announced card or heavy advertising yet. I'm not saying TNA is on WWE's level but to say these guys don't have the chance to work in front of big crowds or a wide TV audience is asinine. 4. They have multiple top faces. Jeff Hardy is TNA's "Cena" he's just out of the main event scene for a little while because he just had a long run on top. Great post gnr123. To me TNA is like an indy promotion that just happens to have a lot of money to bring in bigger names like Bischoff and Hogan and they have a TV show. There are indy promotions nowadays that are just like TNA. There was one about a year ago that had Piper and Hogan on a show. Now there is one with Jim Ross, Jerry Lawler, Faarooq and Bradshaw, Hall and Nash. Now maybe TNA can afford big names throughout the year but it's still very similar in having the indy feel to it yet being able to bring in big names. I wouldn't even classify them as #2 promotion. Today it's only WWE whether it's good or bad. Being considered a #2 company should mean that they are competition of some sort and TNA isn't competition. The only way they could be considered competition is if Vince bought TNA (which he probably would feel would be beneath him) and did shows like Monday Night Wars and in this case it would be purely kayfabe. After reading your post I don't think you know what an indy promotion is. An indy promotion does not have International TV deals. An indy did a Supershow one time with a few massive names and they're suddenly on TNA's level? No. Yes how stupid of TNA to try and cash in on the biggest star in the business... I'm sure they made plenty of money from all those great classics he had in TNA. Like the one where... oh and the one against... in... Yeah didn't happened. I hope a Punk TNA DVD is in the making, a 3 DVD boxset like the Braden Walker WWE career retrospective. Some stars CM Punk worked with in TNA include: Shane Douglas, Vampiro, Kid Kash, Abyss, Raven, Sandman, Mikey Whipwreck, Terry Funk, James Mitchell, Sabu Some would say TNA gave CM Punk vital experience against some of the worlds best wrestlers and vital exposure which helped him get booked away from ROH. Does CM Punk still make it without TNA? I think so. Does he make it as quickly? I doubt it.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Aug 12, 2013 21:23:25 GMT -5
Three straight years of hating?
2012. All I'm gonna say.
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Post by SOR on Aug 12, 2013 21:39:17 GMT -5
Three straight years of hating? 2012. All I'm gonna say. Some quotes from 2012 Bound For Glory thread: Now to be fair, that thread is more positive than TNA 2010 but all the positive people have been driven out (Assumingly either left the board or just don't like TNA anymore and have left) whilst the negative people remain. I'm not trying to be a jerk at all or single anyone out but I just don't understand why people who hate watching something continue to do so week after week.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 22:03:48 GMT -5
You miss the point. Most people don't want TNA to fail. But the frustration at their horrendous booking and refusal to acknowledge their mistakes is palpable.
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Post by Michael Coello on Aug 12, 2013 22:31:02 GMT -5
You miss the point. Most people don't want TNA to fail. But the frustration at their horrendous booking and refusal to acknowledge their mistakes is palpable. Could you really stop saying "I don't want TNA to fail", please? At this point, you're only trying to prove it to yourselves. It's like someone saying they have a big dick. If you have to say it repeatedly, it's probably not true.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Aug 12, 2013 22:35:49 GMT -5
You miss the point. Most people don't want TNA to fail. But the frustration at their horrendous booking and refusal to acknowledge their mistakes is palpable. Could you really stop saying "I don't want TNA to fail", please? At this point, you're only trying to prove it to yourselves. It's like someone saying they have a big dick. If you have to say it repeatedly, it's probably not true. I'm not frustrated with horrible booking, I have just given up on the company. I don't care anymore if TNA gets cancelled tomorrow or not, at this point.......I'm just numb to the whole TNA attempting to compete with WWE because it is never going to happen. But if TNA does something I see as stupid, I will call them out on it, just like if WWE does something stupid. Plus, I wouldn't be watching too much of the show if it wasn't for my show on Angry Marks. If it wasn't for that, I would be DVRing it.
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