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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Sept 18, 2013 17:52:31 GMT -5
...blessing in disguise (assuming it's true, of course). One person may say with Hogan and Mickie and all these other people leaving that it's the "death of TNA." But what it it's more a chance at a rebirth - to change direction and focus on being an alternative to WWE, rather than trying to emulate them. Let Hogan go, let Mickie go, then build up the male and female rosters not with big or semi-big names that just got their walking papers, but rather independent talent that the WWE didn't capitalize on. Forget trying to acquire the next Jeff Hardy or Christian Cage; why not try to make the next Robert Roode or AJ Styles?
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Post by Welfare Willis on Sept 18, 2013 18:50:58 GMT -5
...blessing in disguise (assuming it's true, of course). One person may say with Hogan and Mickie and all these other people leaving that it's the "death of TNA." But what it it's more a chance at a rebirth - to change direction and focus on being an alternative to WWE, rather than trying to emulate them. Let Hogan go, let Mickie go, then build up the male and female rosters not with big or semi-big names that just got their walking papers, but rather independent talent that the WWE didn't capitalize on. Forget trying to acquire the next Jeff Hardy or Christian Cage; why not try to make the next Robert Roode or AJ Styles? Because it's TNA. Actually I get what your saying. It's just that TNA has a terrible record on their follow through. You see glimmers of hope when Samoa Joe or AJ won the belt and then FAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTT. |
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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 18, 2013 19:25:22 GMT -5
TNA still has the WCW "Why create and build up talent when we can just buy them?" mentality. Plus their talent recruitment is lacking. They passed over strong standouts like El Generico and Colt Cabana to sign guys like Wes Brisco and Garett Bischoff.
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Post by Reflecto on Sept 18, 2013 19:33:00 GMT -5
But even that is the equal issue- it's hard for TNA to create and build up talent because of the FANS' mentality. TNA has tried to create a lot of young talent and develop them, but the fans' response tends to be "F*** ANY YOUNG TALENT WHO ISN'T ROH/SHIMMER PRODUCT".
Part of it is the booking, but for a big part of it- we have met the enemy of TNA, and he is us.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2013 19:43:19 GMT -5
A bigger issue is that the top indy talent will almost always go to the WWE, and TNA is stuck with the talent that WWE doesn't want for whatever reason (hence why they got Desmond Wolfe). If WWE wanted Aries, Styles, Joe, etc, they probably would have already left. The only option would be to find talent before they become big in the indys, or spend a year pushing Aries, Styles, Joe, Daniels, Roode, etc, to show the indy crowd that going to TNA will benefit their career.
I think TNA going on the road, even if it leads to a ton of cutbacks and losses, was the right move. If you stick with the comfortable Impact Zone setting, then the company will never grow. They needed to expand so that their business could reach different markets. Unfortunately, it was too big of an expense for them to handle, and they may have to go back to an Impact Zone type of setting, but the intent was logical. They just need to hire better financial analysts or something, because not being able to forecast the incurred expenses of going on the road and then having to jettison big contracts within a few months of the move looks pretty bad. Intent was good, execution was bad.
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Post by JTG Fan on Sept 18, 2013 19:46:50 GMT -5
Going 'big' after a great 2009 creatively and presumably financially solid was a huge mistake.
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Post by lildude8218 on Sept 18, 2013 19:47:25 GMT -5
It's going to be TNA: New 52
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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 18, 2013 19:54:58 GMT -5
But even that is the equal issue- it's hard for TNA to create and build up talent because of the FANS' mentality. TNA has tried to create a lot of young talent and develop them, but the fans' response tends to be "F*** ANY YOUNG TALENT WHO ISN'T ROH/SHIMMER PRODUCT". Part of it is the booking, but for a big part of it- we have met the enemy of TNA, and he is us. No, the problem is the talent they decide to push. Fans were behind Monty Brown, who never wrestled in a major indy promotion before joining TNA. Crimson received a big push even though he was green as goose shit. He didn't have the wrestling prowess and character to justify it. Giving him a meaningless undefeated streak isn't development. TNA tried to push Garett hard and it backfired. The fans in the crowd who turned against did not do it because he wasn't from ROH. They did because he wasn't good. Gunner is intense and a killer. That's his entire character summed up. Can't blame the fans for not reacting to that. Think about this: Roode never was in ROH nor an indy demigod. People like him because of his character and abilities. Not at one time anyone said I can't cheer for him because he didn't wrestle in Japan. You can go silly smarks wanting indy darlings only, but that is not addressing the problem in TNA. The problem is passing over talents who can contribute on day 1 instead pushing guys who are lacking and wondering why they failed. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2013 19:55:07 GMT -5
A huge problem for TNA is that the WWE has signed most of the top indy guys and if the rumors are to be believed a lot of indy guys are very hesitant to sign with TNA and are holding out for an offer from the E and don't want to damage that by signing with TNA. Add in that they have purged the roster lately and they have no choice but to find and develop unknown talent. They made their bed for so long by signing and relying on the big name ex-WWE guys that they have to start over for the most part. They have a decent core in AJ/Aries/Joe/Bully Ray/Roode, but they're going to have to work very hard to develop other guys to their level because most of those guys are aging as well, and they haven't really shown that they can develop unknowns into stars lately.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 18, 2013 20:10:31 GMT -5
A bigger issue is that the top indy talent will almost always go to the WWE, and TNA is stuck with the talent that WWE doesn't want for whatever reason (hence why they got Desmond Wolfe). If WWE wanted Aries, Styles, Joe, etc, they probably would have already left. The only option would be to find talent before they become big in the indys, or spend a year pushing Aries, Styles, Joe, Daniels, Roode, etc, to show the indy crowd that going to TNA will benefit their career. One of the problems is that TNA have the rule about not wrestling for promotions that record their shows on their off time. To a wrestler on the lower end of the pay tier, that's bad on the wallet. Brian Cage and Adam Pearce would be great pickups. Guys like Sugar Dunkenton, Willie Mack, Johnny Gargano, The Young Bucks (I know they were there before), and Mike Bennett are out there waiting to be signed. TNA just needs to make it worth their time to join the promotion and stay loyal. |
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Post by katiemorgan67212 on Sept 18, 2013 20:30:31 GMT -5
TNA still has the WCW "Why create and build up talent when we can just buy them?" mentality. Plus their talent recruitment is lacking. They passed over strong standouts like El Generico and Colt Cabana to sign guys like Wes Brisco and Garett Bischoff. Wes and Garett aren't horrible. Their okayish. The real problem is that TNA never gave them a chance. The only singles match I can even remember from Wes is his gut check match which Garett lost on purpose. And I don't think either of them have ever wrestled a singles match since. It's not their fault that nobody cares about them. For someone to be the top guy the company has to get behind them. There is no other way. If they picked any of the young guys and started treating him with the same attention and respect and fanfare they gave to Brooke Hogan he could be their top guy. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2013 20:38:06 GMT -5
It's still run by Dixie...
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Sept 18, 2013 20:55:52 GMT -5
But even that is the equal issue- it's hard for TNA to create and build up talent because of the FANS' mentality. TNA has tried to create a lot of young talent and develop them, but the fans' response tends to be "F*** ANY YOUNG TALENT WHO ISN'T ROH/SHIMMER PRODUCT". Part of it is the booking, but for a big part of it- we have met the enemy of TNA, and he is us. Well since ROH and Shimmer are the next largest promotions for the men and women respectively there is some sense to this but it's not really true. Petey Williams, Sonjay Dutt, Abyss, Lance Hoyt, Monty Brown, Sharkboy, ODB, Eric Young, and more got over big with Impact fans with no exposure in those promotions. It wasn't the fans that killed their momentum. People started making their own merchandise for some of those wrestlers because TNA wouldn't. Despite what Dixie repeats what she's heard from Vinnie Ru or Bisch, it's never the fans. It's how you read the fans and respond to them. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 18, 2013 20:59:31 GMT -5
I don't see the death of TNA, but I don't know that it'll be a boon either. They've seemingly plateaued completely over the last couple of years. There may not BE any way to grow beyond that.
Hopefully they can continue to keep Spike happy, and remain a solid company with potential for growth that may never be realized.
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Post by Crusty Ruffles on Sept 18, 2013 21:10:19 GMT -5
I think it's a bit unfair to say that only people from ROH/SHIMMER/Japan would please the fan base. I don't believe that to be true. On the same note, for the most part this is where your best talent will actually come from. TNA would be foolish not to chase these guys and girls as they're usually pretty damn good, but they're not the end all be all. They also, for the most part, lack mainstream exposure. Even if a bunch of ROH/CZW/CHIKARA fans may recognize them, a large number of fans will not.
TNA has had trouble recruiting talent, and largely it's their own fault. Even if most of it isn't true, they now have a horrible reputation for how they treat lower card talent. Be it with pay, outside bookings, transportation costs, or even the extreme things that happened to Daffney or Jesse Sorensen. It'd give anyone cold feet. And that is 100% their doing either from truth or not making an effort to dispel any of the stories without lame blanket statements.
This being said, it's not as if the roster has been void of talent. They have had chance after chance to develop their own major players and have largely failed for various reasons. If you look at the people that have held the TNA World Title since it was made in 2007, every person to hold it had a run in either WWE/F, WCW, ECW, or ROH except for Bobby Roode, AJ Styles (who was already established ages ago) and the week James Storm had the belt. That's horrible.
Now to be fair, TNA has tried. The problem is they've picked the complete wrong people to try with. Again, I don't say this because these people haven't been a darling on the indies but because they're just not talented or not ready for the spotlight. Rob Terry, Crimson, Wes Brisco, and Garrett Bischoff are the biggest glaring examples of this. They wasted so much time on them, and nothing could've stopped them from going out and getting/keeping people like Davey Richards, ACH, Colt Cabana, Jimmy Jacobs, Joey Ryan, Ethan Page, Shane Hollister, Cheerleader Melissa, Sara Del Rey, LuFisto, Courtney Rush or people like that. Hell even people like Santana Garrett and Cliff Compton, that worked some dark matches for them already, are probably worth a longer look than they got. The talent that TNA has passed on that has gone on to great things is stunning and there was nothing keeping the company from making an offer.
Eventually, there is going to come a point where TNA can not buy any more names. I think we're seeing that now for various reasons. This is why resources are being wasted on King Mo, Rampage Jackson, and Tito Ortiz. These are people that did and will do nothing to help the company. They are not going to get you mainstream attention and you will get very, very limited performances in the ring from them in both talent and frequency. Why this money is not being invested in the future of the company is beyond me. Invest it into improving OVW if you want that to be your developmental system. Or maybe spread that money around over several talents that have the potential to be the stars of the future no matter where they come from. You need to take these people and make them your own.
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Post by The Scuba Guy on Sept 18, 2013 21:24:21 GMT -5
But even that is the equal issue- it's hard for TNA to create and build up talent because of the FANS' mentality. TNA has tried to create a lot of young talent and develop them, but the fans' response tends to be "F*** ANY YOUNG TALENT WHO ISN'T ROH/SHIMMER PRODUCT". Part of it is the booking, but for a big part of it- we have met the enemy of TNA, and he is us. I wanted to reply to this and say Lance Hoyt, who the Impact Zone LOVED and was homegrown, and while I may be right in that regard, it got me thinking.... Who else, besides him, got over in any way since then? Like, was he the last guy who was homegrown and over? |
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Sept 18, 2013 21:27:29 GMT -5
But even that is the equal issue- it's hard for TNA to create and build up talent because of the FANS' mentality. TNA has tried to create a lot of young talent and develop them, but the fans' response tends to be "F*** ANY YOUNG TALENT WHO ISN'T ROH/SHIMMER PRODUCT". Part of it is the booking, but for a big part of it- we have met the enemy of TNA, and he is us. No, the problem is the talent they decide to push. Fans were behind Monty Brown, who never wrestled in a major indy promotion before joining TNA. Going back to Monty Brown, he was also never the most talented wrestler but what he had was charisma out the wazoo. That's why people loved him. EDIT: And seriously TNA, scale back a bit. There's nothing wrong with being an indy with a national tv deal. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2013 21:35:55 GMT -5
But even that is the equal issue- it's hard for TNA to create and build up talent because of the FANS' mentality. TNA has tried to create a lot of young talent and develop them, but the fans' response tends to be "F*** ANY YOUNG TALENT WHO ISN'T ROH/SHIMMER PRODUCT". Part of it is the booking, but for a big part of it- we have met the enemy of TNA, and he is us. Blaming fans is a total copout. I think a lot of us are guilty of hyperbole when we aren't buying what a company is selling, a lot of us exaggerate how bad something is for humor, I don't think most people here are unwilling to admit that Crimson, or Rob Terry, or Garrett Bischoff or whoever new faces TNA get behind are turning a corner but it has to be acknowledged that those three examples were given a spotlight before they were ready. It's not the fans' responsibility to gobble up everything in front of them, I think wrestling fans are more forgiving than a lot of other fan bases. TNA drives me nuts most of the time but I still watch it more than I don't, we're a sick bunch. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2013 21:40:05 GMT -5
For what it's worth they're trying to push Magnus as the guy, and he has all of the physical tools, the only question is if he can get the fans behind him, not from what I've seen so far, but the jury is still out on that one.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2013 21:45:40 GMT -5
But even that is the equal issue- it's hard for TNA to create and build up talent because of the FANS' mentality. TNA has tried to create a lot of young talent and develop them, but the fans' response tends to be "F*** ANY YOUNG TALENT WHO ISN'T ROH/SHIMMER PRODUCT". Part of it is the booking, but for a big part of it- we have met the enemy of TNA, and he is us. The only people that care about this sort of thing are the ones trying to make the IWC look like a bunch of indy homers. If Wes Brisco was good enough to even belong in the same ring as Sami Zayn, you may have a point, but he's not, so you don't. |
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